Hornby Mid-Year June 2024 Range Launch

[NTrains]

33 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

As is Edge Hill and I pass loads of them nearly every day!

It’s the same flow that passes both you and me 😀👍

[County of Yorkshire]

This is a company that’s tanking and their hyped up mid-year announcement is a damp squib fronted by unenthused amateur presenters. 
 

Surely everyone who wanted a W1 got one last year when first released? Why would you buy a second one for over £250 just to have a bit of smoke pumped out? They’d have been better off releasing smoke fitted Bulleid Pacifics or Stanier Duchesses, which existed in high numbers and thus would be an easier sell in multiples? 

I genuinely cannot remember the last time I bought a Hornby product from new. Perhaps the GWR Collett subs about 6 years ago? 

 

Evidently all is not well. 

[Stefen1988]

Someone posted this on Facebook:

 

Edited June 21 by Stefen1988

[ColinB]

9 hours ago, County of Yorkshire said:

This is a company that’s tanking and their hyped up mid-year announcement is a damp squib fronted by unenthused amateur presenters. 
 

Surely everyone who wanted a W1 got one last year when first released? Why would you buy a second one for over £250 just to have a bit of smoke pumped out? They’d have been better off releasing smoke fitted Bulleid Pacifics or Stanier Duchesses, which existed in high numbers and thus would be an easier sell in multiples? 

I genuinely cannot remember the last time I bought a Hornby product from new. Perhaps the GWR Collett subs about 6 years ago? 

 

Evidently all is not well. 

Funny I was thinking the same. I have two W1s, the second one I bought to see if was substantially better than the first (it wasn't). So I am definitely not interested in another one even if it blasts smoke. I was thinking an original Bulleid would have been a better bet. There were many of these so easy to make one that nobody has. There is also a ton of room at the front to fit the steam generator. The issue is for Hornby they would have to reengineer the tender to loco connection to add the new drawbar connector whereas with the W1 they already have the tender from the P2. So that probably explains it. Hornby are trying to save money by not doing any development resurrecting old locos and putting expensive price tags on them.

Edited June 21 by ColinB

[Roddy Angus]

9 hours ago, County of Yorkshire said:

This is a company that’s tanking and their hyped up mid-year announcement is a damp squib fronted by unenthused amateur presenters. 

Is it fair to claim that Hornby hyped these announcements?  My understanding was that they put a message on their Facebook page to say there was going to be an announcement, that was all.  Any "hyping" was not done by Hornby but by others over-egging the possibilities.  This is not personally aimed at you, county of Yorkshire, just using your post to hang this on.

 

I am not a great Hornby fan, but, without them, the whole hobby would be worse off. For the vast majority of British railway modellers, a Hornby model or trainset was, and still is, the starting position.  I'm not saying they can do no wrong but neither should they be endlessly criticised because they are not keeping up with the output of all the other companies combined.  It just seems that everything they do is criticised by some sector of the hobby.

 

Roddy 

[ColinB]

13 minutes ago, Roddy Angus said:

Is it fair to claim that Hornby hyped these announcements?  My understanding was that they put a message on their Facebook page to say there was going to be an announcement, that was all.  Any "hyping" was not done by Hornby but by others over-egging the possibilities.  This is not personally aimed at you, county of Yorkshire, just using your post to hang this on.

 

I am not a great Hornby fan, but, without them, the whole hobby would be worse off. For the vast majority of British railway modellers, a Hornby model or trainset was, and still is, the starting position.  I'm not saying they can do no wrong but neither should they be endlessly criticised because they are not keeping up with the output of all the other companies combined.  It just seems that everything they do is criticised by some sector of the hobby.

 

Roddy 

You are sort of right, Hornby are a company that we have all grown up with but somehow they seem to have lost their way. I was watching a YouTube video by Julie Guest at that huge model railway in Hamburg. She asked one of the designers why there was no British railway layouts and the guy said because they could not get any spare parts from Hornby especially motors. Does that ring any bells, how many people on this site complain about the same. Hornby came up with some obscure answer about they didn't design their models for that kind of use, where it appears other companies do. The real reason is keeping spare parts is expensive. When Woolworths and BHS eventually closed down after getting into a state, most people wondered how we would live without them, well we have.

[GrumpyPenguin]

18 minutes ago, Roddy Angus said:

Is it fair to claim that Hornby hyped these announcements? 

From where I sit the "hype" came from forums such as this one.

 

The club that I attend generally had a great sense of "underwhelmness" about the announcement.

The members that did have W1's got rid of them because of the well documented issues with them & certainly are not prepared to chance it again.

[Steamport Southport]

10 hours ago, County of Yorkshire said:

This is a company that’s tanking and their hyped up mid-year announcement is a damp squib fronted by unenthused amateur presenters. 
 

Surely everyone who wanted a W1 got one last year when first released? Why would you buy a second one for over £250 just to have a bit of smoke pumped out? They’d have been better off releasing smoke fitted Bulleid Pacifics or Stanier Duchesses, which existed in high numbers and thus would be an easier sell in multiples? 

I genuinely cannot remember the last time I bought a Hornby product from new. Perhaps the GWR Collett subs about 6 years ago? 

 

Evidently all is not well. 

 

Those W1s that sold out straight away and are now selling for more than the price of the new one with the gimmicks you mean? Nope couldn't get one! Certainly not the one in original condition without the smoke lifting cowl....

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p4432023.m570.l1313&_nkw=Hornby+w1&_sacat=0

 

Just because you personally don't want an item doesn't mean the demand isn't there. 

 

 

 

Jason

[Ron Ron Ron]

34 minutes ago, Roddy Angus said:

……I am not a great Hornby fan, but, without them, the whole hobby would be worse off. ……..

Maybe it’s time to reevaluate that long trotted out assumption.

 

This “losing their way”, “lost the plot”, etc, has been going on for many years now.

My recent visit to their visitor centre, Wonderworks, confirmed it for me.

Hornby appear to be firmly rooted in the toy sector and it’s as if they’re only keeping a toe hold in the adult railway modelling market.

They still put out some superb models and I will buy them if they suit my needs, but they’re a side player now, rather than at the core of the hobby.

 

 

.

[GordonC]

On 19/06/2024 at 22:05, Covkid said:

 

 

Given the amount of cash and effort Hornby have invested in TT:120, I really hope the momentum continues. I have said before that I cannot understand why Hornby didn't produce the most common BR Mk1 in TT - the TSO. An average train formed of Mk1s pretty much always had the 2nd class seats as the most numerous. My memories from the late 1970s are of rakes of Mk1s being used on reliefs, excursions an summer weekend trains. Generally a BSK on each end and a rake of TSOs with a CK towards the centre. 

 

But that is just one example where I don't understand the Hornby product logic.

 

I couldn't believe they're not making more of the tooling they had ... Mk1s in Blue/Grey anyone?

[No Decorum]

26 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

Maybe it’s time to reevaluate that long trotted out assumption.

 

This “losing their way”, “lost the plot”, etc, has been going on for many years now.

My recent visit to their visitor centre, Wonderworks, confirmed it for me.

Hornby appear to be firmly rooted in the toy sector and it’s as if they’re only keeping a toe hold in the adult railway modelling market.

They still put out some superb models and I will buy them if they suit my needs, but they’re a side player now, rather than at the core of the hobby.

 

 

.

I got my grandson a Hornby starter set. The track isn’t easy to put together and the controller’s knob fell off. I got him a basic Bachmann controller. Much better. More recently, I got a Kato oval of track with a controller. He much prefers the Kato controller and the Kato track is much easier to put together and take apart. My point is that even as toys, Hornby stuff isn’t very good.

 

As for the adult railway modelling market, Hornby can be very good (Standard 2) but an awful lot of models have something frustratingly wrong with them (Turbomotive and Black 5).

 

I can’t get it out of my head that Lyndon Davies, in his time as Hornby CEO, said that discounting devalued the brand. Sometimes it seems to me that Hornby has been doing its best to devalue the brand.

[spamcan61]

9 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

I can’t get it out of my head that Lyndon Davies, in his time as Hornby CEO, said that discounting devalued the brand. Sometimes it seems to me that Hornby has been doing its best to devalue the brand.

Their continuing inability to make the right quantities of the right products*, sometimes epically so (Bulleid brakes, MK3s) makes deep discounting well nigh inevitable.

 

* I'm not saying this is easy, but they've had 60+ years to understand their market.

Edited June 21 by spamcan61

[Steamport Southport]

2 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

Their continuing inability to make the right quantities of the right products, sometimes epically so (Bulleid brakes, MK3s) makes deep discounting well nigh inevitable.

 

The Bulleid coach problem was caused by selling them separately rather than in fixed sets. They made the right amount, but people didn't buy the right amount.

 

They should have only came in packs of three like the real ones. People were buying the composites to run as normal coaches!

 

Something EFE got right.

 

https://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/78741/E86015-EFE-Rail-LSWR-Cross-Country-Set-number-314-BR-(S)-Green

 

 

Hopefully if they repeat them, they'll package them as sets.

 

 

 

Jason

[spamcan61]

4 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

The Bulleid coach problem was caused by selling them separately rather than in fixed sets. They made the right amount, but people didn't buy the right amount.

 

 

Jason

They should know their customers' buying patterns though, given they've been selling coaches for decades - their customers don't buy prototypical rakes, they really should know that by now; it's not like the Bulleids were the first coaches they've ever sold.

 

Relative newcomers EFE know their market better.

Edited June 21 by spamcan61

[Steamport Southport]

1 minute ago, spamcan61 said:

They should know their customers' buying patterns though, given they've been selling coaches for decades - their customers don't buy prototypical rakes, they really should know that by now; it's not like the Bulleids were the first coaches they've ever sold.

 

None of the other railways really had fixed sets though* so the matter doesn't arise on any of them other than the Southern. I can't recall it happening with the GWR Subs.

 

*Apart from a few of the prestigious trains such as The Coronation Scot and Cornish Riviera, and a few suburban trains

 

 

 

Jason

[Legend]

17 hours ago, RichardT said:

I didn’t see any LNER pacifics in the announcement!

 

😆

No but they managed to get a big LNER engine in .......the hush hush

 

It might be early days , and I think TT is scoring for them , but more and more I just think Hornby has lost its way . 

[The Stationmaster]

3 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

They should know their customers' buying patterns though, given they've been selling coaches for decades - their customers don't buy prototypical rakes, they really should know that by now; it's not like the Bulleids were the first coaches they've ever sold.

Their problem has long been an inability to get the balance right between different types of coaches and, more recently with the HST, to offer the right coaches at the same time as the power cars.  Will that change?  Well at least, buffergate apart, they are actually no offering the GE HST coaches at the same time as the power cars so that represents a massive leap forwards when it comes to HSTs.  So the new regime is actually getting something a bit nearer right and. is (price apart??) , I think, right for the market the GC HST is aimed at.

 

Part of Hornby's problem has long been their inability to understand all of the markets they sell into.  Hence folk who buy hi-fi models have long been regarded by Hornby as 'collectors' although they have at times definitely hit the right spot for the 'modeller of railways market'.  This is where others are scoring way above Hornby because they recognise the market they are aiming at although the genuine collector market also happens to be an incidental add-on to the target modeller market.

 

If Hornby can shake-off thei rather misguided understanding of 'the collector market' and consistently recognise the 'modeller of railways' market they will produce a Black 5 which satisfies the latter but also picks up incidental sales to what I strongly suspect is a shrinking collector market.

 

If they think their future is on the toy market they need - I say it again - to seriously think about Railroad and how they consistently identify its range and how they price it.   But alongside it - i they can afford it - also try for the hi-fi market and its incidental sales value to 'collectors' (although there are definitely fewer of them about than there used to be).  But overall i still wonder if they can hit the volumes in any of their ranges which they need to keep prices down to a marketable level.  It will be interesting ti see - soon - the latest Annual Report which might give us a clue about their wider strategy.

[Legend]

I still think it's a mixed up company and their objectives are not clear or which part of the market they serve . As an example, they make a hi fi Black 5 but the stick toy lamps on it . Do people view these steam locos as high detail or toys , much like the old syncrosmoke?

 

I don't know if they do it , but they certainly need help . Maybe engage some enthusiasts as a steering committee . I'm sure many would give their time free or for the occasional model in return . Im thinking folks from demu , for instance , that could advise on what might sell in modern ranges . I'm sorry but a GC HST without buffers is just mad ! Bargain bins here we come .

[scottrains29]

39 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

Their continuing inability to make the right quantities of the right products*, sometimes epically so (Bulleid brakes, MK3s) makes deep discounting well nigh inevitable.

The quantity of MK3s is fine, it's the unavailability of the matching power cars that's the problem. Who wants to buy the coaches without being able to run with the correct power cars? 

 

Hornby don't seem to want to capitalise on the current high demand for certain models. There is an unpowered blue pullman power car set ending on eBay today already approaching £400!! The XC sets have also commanded ridiculous prices for a good few years now, so plenty of time to announce a rerun.

 

It just leaves the door wide open for another manufacturer to come in and produce the models people actually want.

[Ron Ron Ron]

18 minutes ago, Legend said:

……they certainly need help . Maybe engage some enthusiasts as a steering committee . I'm sure many would give their time free or for the occasional model in return…….

Why should enthusiasts, even in good faith, help them out?

This is a commercial company operating in the retail business, purely to make money and add value to its shareholders (a normal and laudable endeavour).

Hornby are not a charitable institution or a community or public service.

They deserve to succeed or fail based on their own efforts.

I don’t think anyone should worry if they move off in another direction, or cease to exist.

Failing to understand your market is a cardinal sin in the discretionary sales retail business.

Doubling down on that failure doesn’t look promising for the future, especially with predicted economic headwinds (possibly a hurricane) coming.

 

 

.

 

.

Edited June 21 by Ron Ron Ron

[spamcan61]

15 minutes ago, scottrains29 said:

The quantity of MK3s is fine,

Not when they're being flogged off at 20 quid it isn't...

 

https://railsofsheffield.com/collections/oo-gauge-bargains?system_collections=Rolling%20Stock&tags_brand_td93xydblb7cxukrqni65zsz=Hornby&q=mk3&priceMax=30

 

https://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/search_suggest

Edited June 21 by spamcan61

[Steamport Southport]

6 minutes ago, Legend said:

I still think it's a mixed up company and their objectives are not clear or which part of the market they serve . As an example, they make a hi fi Black 5 but the stick toy lamps on it . Do people view these steam locos as high detail or toys , much like the old syncrosmoke?

 

I don't know if they do it , but they certainly need help . Maybe engage some enthusiasts as a steering committee . I'm sure many would give their time free or for the occasional model in return . Im thinking folks from demu , for instance , that could advise on what might sell in modern ranges . I'm sorry but a GC HST without buffers is just mad ! Bargain bins here we come .

 

Or they'll sell like hot cakes to those that aren't rivet counters!

 

And yes I do put myself in that territory.

 

1 minute ago, spamcan61 said:

Not when they're being flogged off at 20 quid it isn't...

 

And yet in other comments they are far too expensive!

 

Seems they just can't win.

 

 

Jason

[spamcan61]

1 minute ago, Steamport Southport said:

And yet in other comments they are far too expensive!

 

Seems they just can't win.

 

Jason

Having to offer many different MK3s at less than half list price is not good for the manufacturer or the retailer; it's the reduction  I'm on about, not the list price (which somebody will always complain about)

[Michael Hodgson]

On 20/06/2024 at 11:27, The Stationmaster said:

A. Hornby need to get their presentation right but I still think that  their Brand Manager (and possibly a designer?) are the way to do it but they need some media training and they need to inject passion into properly pre-planned presentations.

 

They have a problem with their current branding.  Hornby is known for toy trains - that should be their down-market affordable brand, not this "Railroad".  If they want to compete in the more expensive high-quality market, that is where they should have a spearate brand.

 

As for presentation they could learn from a prime minister who chooses to announce a general election in a downpour without an umbrella - at least that had comic value.

[JSpencer]

53 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

Not when they're being flogged off at 20 quid it isn't...

 

https://railsofsheffield.com/collections/oo-gauge-bargains?system_collections=Rolling%20Stock&tags_brand_td93xydblb7cxukrqni65zsz=Hornby&q=mk3&priceMax=30

 

https://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/search_suggest

 

And I'm still waiting for them to release the blue/grey ones (all new tooled) announced 2 years ago. I've got their lighting sets read to do...