New tooling Class 08/09

[PMP]

8 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Anyone got the Heljan class 10/11? - presume performance will be similar

Yup I have, no problem with its performance

 

i would think that the Bachmann 08 will match the existing Bachmann model or the Heljan class 11. I have Hornby 08’s too, and there’s no great performance difference between them.

[TheReal08572]

I'm clearly a bit late to the party; I've only just seen that this model is under preparation and the topic is already on Page 12! If it's as good as it looks, that's the second of my top 3 wishlist items covered (the others being decent 4mm Class 31s and Class 40s, the former now covered in duplicate).

The prototype 08s and 09s have detail variations like no other class, differences that I have researched for decades, and many of which have already been covered in earlier comments. Kudos in particular to Halvarras and bécasse for displaying their obvious knowledge on the subject! Given my interest, I will be in full-on rivet counting mode on this one. However, given that very few 08/09 models (in any scale) have ever correctly matched a full  combination of features to the running number applied, it shouldn't be difficult for the Bachmann model to improve on its predecessors! 

Nice to see the SR 6-marker light variation modelled, even though that feature does restrict the model to a handful of locos.

One element which I can't quite make up my mind on from the exhibition photos and press releases is the solebar. There seems to have been an attempt to model both variations, with the prototypical difference at the junction with the cab end buffer beam, but the upper "lip" on the early type looks very overscale in some images, and I can't see whether the distinctive curved profile of the later type has been replicated. I guess these things are close to the limits of what can be achieved in 4mm scale.

I really hope the loco has been designed with P4 conversion in mind!

[TheReal08572]

On 18/06/2024 at 03:28, Halvarras said:

The Lima model's main issue - other than its 0 - 60 performance - was the combination of the later steel cab doors and additional air brake compressor box with the early bonnet external hinges, not something found on the real ones (although a question mark hovered over 08243 for a while, due to what I've always assumed was an error in the Ian Allan combos of the time - they weren't perfect for this kind of information). 

 

08243 was converted from vacuum only to air only in 1975 and therefore never gained the additional air compressor cabinet associated specifically with dual braked locos. The usual "explanation" for modification of such a low-numbered loco is simply that it was done in error, but I've never been able to prove or disprove that.

[TheReal08572]

On 18/06/2024 at 19:28, Halvarras said:

Many moons ago and prompted by a batch listing in a Bradford Barton softback book on shunters I attempted to work out which had external hinges, wooden or steel cab doors and one or two vacuum exhauster boxes, the latter based on whatever photos I could find showing both sides of any loco within a particular batch. The first two features are I think now reasonably common knowledge, but those exhausters proved much harder to nail in the early to middling batches. It's been a while since I looked at the results but I seem to recall one or two anomalies, including I think preserved D3586 which should have had one exhauster like the rest in its batch (AFAICT) but in pictures had two!

D3586 (08471) had its second exhauster box added in preservation, soon after arrival at the Severn Valley Railway. I have enquired about the story behind the mod, but it appears that those who were involved with the loco in its early days have moved on and the trail has gone cold.

 

There is a BR-era precedent for that modification though - some 08s that were built with a single exhauster box had the second one added during dual braking. These locos are easily identifiable because they generally retain full width horizontal handrails high up on the leading 3 engine room doors. Locos built with dual exhauster boxes had them only on the leading door on each side.

 

Something that probably doesn't affect modellers, but which is an added complication, is that locos fitted with a RHS exhauster box could still be single-exhauster locos, the second cabinet being empty. D3092-D3101 were built without any form of train brake, but had empty exhauster boxes on both sides!

[TheReal08572]

On 19/06/2024 at 22:23, Halvarras said:

 

It's often overlooked that two Class 09s, D4112/3, were not on the SR but on the LMR, allocated to Allerton. According to the early 1970s Ian Allan ABCs both were fitted with train air brake equipment in 1972/3, but neither were repainted blue at the same time. They became 09024/5 at TOPS renumbering in spring 1974 and shortly after moved region to.......no, not the SR to join the others, but the WR! Bristol Bath Road, to be precise. 

 

In fact, only the first 16 of the 26 09s were delivered new to the SR, the remaining 10 going to the LMR. 09024/025 were the last of the class to migrate south, as you say via Bristol Bath Road, which is why they missed out on the high level air pipes.

[Halvarras]

5 hours ago, TheReal08572 said:

 

In fact, only the first 16 of the 26 09s were delivered new to the SR, the remaining 10 going to the LMR. 09024/025 were the last of the class to migrate south, as you say via Bristol Bath Road, which is why they missed out on the high level air pipes.

 

Interesting and thank you - that sent me off to check 'Modern Locomotives Illustrated' No 202* which gives first allocations, and yes, you are quite correct. If I ever knew that I'd clean forgotten......😉!

 

*The data section in this one was so massive it was only made available as a pdf (which I downloaded and printed off at work (before I retired 😁!) )

[Hippel]

4 hours ago, Halvarras said:

 

 

 

*The data section in this one was so massive it was only made available as a pdf (which I downloaded and printed off at work (before I retired 😁!) )

 

Me too!

Paul

[XChris]

Having seen another new tooling announcement I decided to go back and watch the 08 announcement again, and noticed that they have put Portable tail/head lights on some but when talking about lighting options it shows the lights fitted to the loco working but not the portable tail/head light, this seems like another own goal on what seems to be a brilliant idea. Why they would fit them and then not light them is silly in my mind? As surely if fixed in place then you could hide the led in or behind as per the other lights.

[romley midland]

1 hour ago, XChris said:

Having seen another new tooling announcement I decided to go back and watch the 08 announcement again, and noticed that they have put Portable tail/head lights on some but when talking about lighting options it shows the lights fitted to the loco working but not the portable tail/head light, this seems like another own goal on what seems to be a brilliant idea. Why they would fit them and then not light them is silly in my mind? As surely if fixed in place then you could hide the led in or behind as per the other lights.

Are they not simply posable lamps you can stick anywhere on the model if you so wish? On lamp irons, running plate, wherever… I seem to think it was mentioned that they come in the accessory pack. 

[XChris]

4 hours ago, romley midland said:

Are they not simply posable lamps you can stick anywhere on the model if you so wish? On lamp irons, running plate, wherever… I seem to think it was mentioned that they come in the accessory pack. 

I do hope they are, because they will look terrible if not lit!

I also couldn’t see any with full mainline standard headlights fitted which I would have thought would have been tooled for some.

[Jon Harbour]

14 minutes ago, XChris said:

I do hope they are, because they will look terrible if not lit!

I also couldn’t see any with full mainline standard headlights fitted which I would have thought would have been tooled for some.

 

If they are movable and posable, then how do you expect them to be lit? I think your expectation might be a little optimistic!

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, Jon Harbour said:

 

If they are movable and posable, then how do you expect them to be lit? I think your expectation might be a little optimistic!

They did a nice job on tail lamps of the mk2d,

[Jon Harbour]

But the tail lamps weren't moveable and / or posable, were they? Those lamps have a fixed position allowing the wiring connectivity to be done in a way that is hidden from the owner of the coach.

[XChris]

6 hours ago, Jon Harbour said:

 

If they are movable and posable, then how do you expect them to be lit? I think your expectation might be a little optimistic!

I think you misunderstand me, on the railway we have portable main headlights, which can look like a tail lamp that hooks on like the Mk.2f’s have or you have a main headlight that was permanently fitted, if they have tooled the permanently fitted such as this link 

Then I expect this to work properly, but I can’t see any such types of tooling?

 

If it’s a portable one such as the ones you can see on the video I hope it’s removable (because a non functional tail/headlamp next to working marker lights would look silly) or that it’s fixed in place and be either a working head or tail light.

 

I don’t think my expectations are above what’s possible, I think if they do this wrong it could be another 20/3 lighting issue where they then have to go back and change it. Prototypical lighting is now something that is more than achievable for our models thanks to more LED’s and PCB circuits that can handle more options and controlled by DCC commands and I think this is now important to those that have a DCC layout and want to show it off.

[adb968008]

5 hours ago, Jon Harbour said:

But the tail lamps weren't moveable and / or posable, were they? Those lamps have a fixed position allowing the wiring connectivity to be done in a way that is hidden from the owner of the coach.

Yes they were movable, you could fit either an oil or flashing battery lamp, or a lamp iron and it came with a tool to fit it.

 

One lamp iron or five makes no difference, you can do it Hornby black 5 style with a few LEDs, or mk2f style with 1 led and a plastic light track to the outputs… 

Edited July 17 by adb968008

[Steadfast]

Going off this link, (scroll down for a close up) the tail and portable headlamps included are dummy mouldings. The model shows an oil lamp, but presumably the battery lamps are the same. 

https://news.Bachmann.co.uk/2024/06/a-new-dawn-for-the-diesel-shunter/

 

Of the percentage that do open the accessory pack, how many will put the lamp on a step as often seen on 08s? 08s / 09s running with a portable headlamp whilst an everyday sight in certain locations (Newport for example) was hardly common place across the country. It's a nice touch that the accessory pack covers more than just air pipes.

 

If someone is that keen to model a portable headlamp, adding an LED isn't major surgery, especially as the circuit boards will have pickup points for 6 LEDs and modern 08s on have two markers. There's a huge difference between what is achievable on a mass produced RTR item that has to be handled by potentially clumsy hands and survive the retail environment vs what an individual modeller can add themselves. The lamps on the Black 5 tell a story, they're very chunky. 

 

It's a nice touch that they've tooled an EWS spec 08, with NRN pod and swing head buckeye.

 

Jo

Edited July 17 by Steadfast

[Hal Nail]

Further to discussion of whether they would do an additional tooling with a headlamp and it being widely acknowleged tooling is the most expensive part of the process, for each variant made, does that mean they literally just have one tool and make every body moulding from that one by one?

[rorz101uk]

Not sure if the will do the cut down class 08 but there is also the hi intensity lamp fitted on the side of the radiator on 08993

 

 

[TheReal08572]

On 19/07/2024 at 07:18, rorz101uk said:

Not sure if the will do the cut down class 08 but there is also the hi intensity lamp fitted on the side of the radiator on 08993

 

 

An 08/9 would need to be an entirely separate moulding as the entire length of the locos was reduced in height (unlike their predecessor 03s which just had the cab roof lowered). 

[Roy Langridge]

1 hour ago, TheReal08572 said:

An 08/9 would need to be an entirely separate moulding as the entire length of the locos was reduced in height (unlike their predecessor 03s which just had the cab roof lowered). 

And from what we saw of the new model, a new and different chassis. 
 

Roy

[rorz101uk]

It more about the hi intensity lamp on the loco I was on about, I’ve seen a couple like this? 

[adb968008]

23 hours ago, TheReal08572 said:

An 08/9 would need to be an entirely separate moulding as the entire length of the locos was reduced in height (unlike their predecessor 03s which just had the cab roof lowered). 

Looks like an exercise in lobbing off the lower parts of the body shell at the frame level.

[farren]

5 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Looks like an exercise in lobbing off the lower parts of the body shell at the frame level.

Excellent I would like to see the body floating in midair due to the mechanism taking up all the space in the model already. This was mentioned earlier one in the thread,  until someone showed the new engineering prototype showing how crammed it is under the shell. 

Edited July 22 by farren

[Fredo]

Hi, how about a Guinness one!

 

[spamcan61]

12 minutes ago, Fredo said:

Hi, how about a Guinness one!

 

Really suprised they didn't paint the roof cream/white!