Precious 1976 scratch built Terrier needing help, bearings etc.

[mikesndbs]

Hi

In 1976 when I was just 11 my dad built me a A1 Terrier from scratch.

She's given loads of service ever since and does still run today.

However the main issue I have found is there is a fair amount of wear in the chassis axle bearings particularly on the driven axle.

You can see the issue in this short unlisted video clip from my channel. 

 

 

My intention is to try and restore her as sensitively as possible with minimal disturbance to how she was originally made and decorated.

 

As you can see in this photo(s) there does seem to be a fair amount of room between the frames and gear wheel, so my initial thought is to solder a brass washer of the correct internal diameter against the inside face of the frames here to produce a more controlled bearing.

I appreciate it will wear in time of course.

 

 

 

 

If I possessed a pillar drill or some other reliable way of lining up the holes I'd probably insert new bearings into the old plain bearings, but I don't have access to anything like that.

 

So I wanted to get members thoughts and ideas before I start the scary task of stripping her down.

 

Many thanks

 

Mike

 

MRU

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Miss Prism]

The amount of wear in the chassis axle bearings will actually help keep the wheels on the rails, thereby assisting pickup.

 

I'd be inclined to confining any improvement to replacing the motor with a smoother one, and a more gentle gear ratio.

 

[mikesndbs]

17 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

The amount of wear in the chassis axle bearings will actually help keep the wheels on the rails, thereby assisting pickup.

 

I'd be inclined to confining any improvement to replacing the motor with a smoother one, and a more gentle gear ratio.

 

 

Many thanks, at anything more than a crawl she lumps, the motor is a 5 pole one and runs great, can you explain what a more gentle gear ratio would be please 

[Miss Prism]

Does the motor run smoothly when starting up? (My experience of Ks motors were that they were powerful, but very variable in quality.)

 

A more gentle gear ratio would be, say, 54:1 (as in a High Level box).

 

[mikesndbs]

24 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

Does the motor run smoothly when starting up? (My experience of Ks motors were that they were powerful, but very variable in quality.)

 

A more gentle gear ratio would be, say, 54:1 (as in a High Level box).

 

 

Thanks again, yes super smooth. She's got 40-1 I think but I can certainly look at higher. I did wonder about a suitable gearbox motor which would solve the worn frames issue too?

[John Isherwood]

1 hour ago, mikesndbs said:

 

Thanks again, yes super smooth. She's got 40-1 I think but I can certainly look at higher. I did wonder about a suitable gearbox motor which would solve the worn frames issue too?

 

Before messing around with the motor / gearbox, buy a set of six 1/8" frame bushes, and a taper broach suitable for an 1/8" hole.

 

Strip out the rods, wheels, axles and gear.

 

Using the taper reamer, open up the frame holes until the frame bushes will JUST press in.

 

Reassemble - job done!

 

(If the bushes make the overall width too great, file down the projecting parts).

 

CJI.

[mikesndbs]

26 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Before messing around with the motor / gearbox, buy a set of six 1/8" frame bushes, and a taper broach suitable for an 1/8" hole.

 

Strip out the rods, wheels, axles and gear.

 

Using the taper reamer, open up the frame holes until the frame bushes will JUST press in.

 

Reassemble - job done!

 

(If the bushes make the overall width too great, file down the projecting parts).

 

CJI.

 

Now that's interesting, can yes you show me the tool?

[John Isherwood]

18 minutes ago, mikesndbs said:

 

Now that's interesting, can yes you show me the tool?

 

What I really should have recommended are cutting broaches; see : -

 

https://maddisonsofdurham.co.uk/jewellers-tools/files-jewellers-tools/cutting-broaches/set-of-6-cutting-broaches-2-40mm-6-20mm/

 

The one that you would use would probably be the third smallest - you just 'twiddle' the broach in the hole until the bush JUST presses in.

 

You are effectively restoring the axle holes to their original size. If the bushes as supplied are a tad tight on the axles, the bush holes can be lightly 'twiddled,' to ease the fit - but don't overdo it!

 

The 1/8" bushes can be obtained from such as Wizard Models, Peter's Spares et al.

 

CJI.

Edited June 11 by cctransuk

[mikesndbs]

11 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

What I really should have recommended are cutting broaches; see : -

 

https://maddisonsofdurham.co.uk/jewellers-tools/files-jewellers-tools/cutting-broaches/set-of-6-cutting-broaches-2-40mm-6-20mm/

 

The one that you would use would probably be the third smallest - you just 'twiddle' the broach in the hole until the bush JUST presses in.

 

You are effectively restoring the axle holes to their original size. If the bushes as supplied are a tad tight on the axles, the bush holes can be lightly 'twiddled,' to ease the fit - but don't overdo it!

 

The 1/8" bushes can be obtained from such as Wizard Models, Peter's Spares et al.

 

CJI.

 

Wow that seems almost too easy lol. How would I ensure alignment given the existing holes may be elliptical? Also I checked for the bushes but can't find any

Edited June 12 by mikesndbs

[John Isherwood]

5 minutes ago, mikesndbs said:

 

Who that seems almost too easy lol. How would I ensure alignment given the existing holes may be elliptical? Also I checked for the bushes but can't find any

 

The broach will self-centre in the worn frame holes.

 

Bushes : Product RM4 at Wizard Models.

 

CJI.

[Bucoops]

46 minutes ago, mikesndbs said:

 

Who that seems almost too easy lol. How would I ensure alignment given the existing holes may be elliptical? Also I checked for the bushes but can't find any

 

I have some I can send if you like, no charge. 2 depths - the shorter ones tend to be used where the motor is, and the longer ones on other axles, they can of course be filed down to fit. 5 of each so some spares. Possibly  similar vintage to your Dad's lovely model.

 

[mikesndbs]

59 minutes ago, Bucoops said:

 

I have some I can send if you like, no charge. 2 depths - the shorter ones tend to be used where the motor is, and the longer ones on other axles, they can of course be filed down to fit. 5 of each so some spares. Possibly  similar vintage to your Dad's lovely model.

 

 

Oh that's really kind of you thank you 😌 🙂 and these are the right size for the axels? Are they press fit or solder

[Jol Wilkinson]

I would recommend broaching the chassis holes so that the brass bearings just lightly push in and then run a small fillet of 145 degree solder around them. If you put the shank of a 1/8" drill through them before/while soldering it will ensure they are aligned.

[mikesndbs]

12 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

I would recommend broaching the chassis holes so that the brass bearings just lightly push in and then run a small fillet of 145 degree solder around them. If you put the shank of a 1/8" drill through them before/while soldering it will ensure they are aligned.

 

Brilliant thank you, I hope I would have made dad proud 

[JeffP]

10 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

I would recommend broaching the chassis holes so that the brass bearings just lightly push in and then run a small fillet of 145 degree solder around them. If you put the shank of a 1/8" drill through them before/while soldering it will ensure they are aligned.

You beat me to it.

The "trick" is to work slowly, opening out each pair of holes, one at a time, so that a new bush just fits.

Remember to clean the frames of any grease before attempting to solder.

Once soldered, try the axle for free running.

If it's a bit tight, re-insert the 1/8" drill and turn it gently while moving to and fro.

Retry the axle.

[Bucoops]

11 hours ago, mikesndbs said:

 

Oh that's really kind of you thank you 😌 🙂 and these are the right size for the axels? Are they press fit or solder

 

No problem 🙂 Yes they are 1/8" bearings which is standard for Romford wheels. As others have mentioned, a small fillet of solder inside the frame will hold them in place.

[mikesndbs]

In this video we take a look at the next steps along the probably long road of restoring my Terrier scratch built for me by dad in 1976.

I’ve come across some odd assembly with the crank pins being a particular puzzle.

Thanks for the help.

 

 

[JeffP]

I think I'd have left the coupling rods in place, just removing the wheelnuts, since the rods might be matched to a particular set of wheels, in a particular order.

We'll see, when you come to rebuild it all.

[mikesndbs]

10 hours ago, JeffP said:

I think I'd have left the coupling rods in place, just removing the wheelnuts, since the rods might be matched to a particular set of wheels, in a particular order.

We'll see, when you come to rebuild it all.

 

It's ok I marked the rods and only took off the hot side wheels so at worse front and back might be swapped.

[mikesndbs]

Hi all, fixing the crank pins and finding replacement transfers.

 

I'm having a go at fixing the crank pins using thread locker, not sure how it will do as there are no threads? Didn't work 

 

 

As you saw the number on one side and the Southern logo are very poor. I've been searching through dad's stock of transfers (of which there are 1000s) but most seem to be the wrong ones with loads of Maunsell/LSWR types, these seem too dark?

 

 

I found these very old ones at the bottom that look more like the colour but there are no 'Southern' s

 

 

The best ones I have found are these, however there is not enough '2's but the 'Southern' fits perfectly.

 

 

I've also found some Carrs Transfix in dad's tool box, nearly a full bottle.

 

Should I go with these gold ones?

 

Edited June 14 by mikesndbs
Update thread locker

[mikesndbs]

Sunshine or gold???!

[fulton]

On 11/06/2024 at 18:29, cctransuk said:

 

What I really should have recommended are cutting broaches; see : -

 

https://maddisonsofdurham.co.uk/jewellers-tools/files-jewellers-tools/cutting-broaches/set-of-6-cutting-broaches-2-40mm-6-20mm/

 

 

Had been thinking about some larger cutting broaches for a while, ordered these when I seen your post, delivered today, thank you for the tip.

[mikesndbs]

Hi, changed the axles wow what a difference.

Got high temperature epoxy to fix crank pins.

Still looking for help with transfers.

 

Thanks 

[Barclay]

You might want to test those transfers, the Press fix often look darker on the sheet 

[mikesndbs]

10 hours ago, Barclay said:

You might want to test those transfers, the Press fix often look darker on the sheet 

Ah right, that would be very good news