RMweb Premium Indomitable026 Posted June 9 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 9 With the recent release of the Hunslets in 0:16.5 by Bachman my thoughts have turned to a possible return in to O gauge - narrow gauge. My question is - Is it possible to model Bullhead “main line” track found on the likes of the Ffestiniog with propriety components? Sorry if this has already been covered but I couldn’t find anything at a glance. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Damian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Nile Posted June 9 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 9 You could use Peco Individulay parts: https://peco-uk.com/collections/individulay or C&L parts: https://www.clfinescale.co.uk/online-store/7mm-c32279084 to model bullhead track to any gauge you want, in theory. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Indomitable026 Posted June 9 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted June 9 28 minutes ago, Nile said: You could use Peco Individulay parts: https://peco-uk.com/collections/individulay or C&L parts: https://www.clfinescale.co.uk/online-store/7mm-c32279084 to model bullhead track to any gauge you want, in theory. Hi, thanks for that. what size chairs 4mm or 7mm? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Nile Posted June 9 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 9 I suppose 7mm, as modern FR track is quite heavy. I suspect 4mm chairs are designed to work with code 75 rail, while that might work it could also look a bit undersized. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Indomitable026 Posted June 9 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted June 9 12 minutes ago, Nile said: I suppose 7mm, as modern FR track is quite heavy. I suspect 4mm chairs are designed to work with code 75 rail, while that might work it could also look a bit undersized. Does FR use chairs and rail from standard gauge railway? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted June 10 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 10 Could the peco 00 bullhead track pass as narrow gauge with sleepers removed? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Indomitable026 Posted June 10 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted June 10 I guess we need to know the size of the rail and what chairs are used? Does anybody know? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mol_PMB Posted June 10 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 10 (edited) 10 hours ago, Indomitable026 said: Does FR use chairs and rail from standard gauge railway? No. Whilst there is still some second-hand rail on the FR, it is flat-bottom. 'Modern' FR track is flat bottom anyway, there's no bullhead rail left on the main line. The predominant rail section is S30. As far as I know, the FR and PQR were the main (only?) users of bullhead rail on the UK narrow gauge lines. The FR went through several phases of rail and chair types, starting with T rail of increasing size, then double-head rail, then bullhead rail. Each had distinctive chairs. The later type in use for most of the 20th century was 50lb bullhead rail, typically just 4.25" high when new. That would equate to 'Code 100' or very close. There is a chapter on track in Boyd, and a bit of information online here: https://www.festipedia.org.uk/wiki/Rail_Types Edited June 10 by Mol_PMB code 100 addition. 1 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mark Forrest Posted June 10 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 10 There has been a recent article on modelling Ffestiniog track in MRJ, possibly in 1/32 scale though. I'll dig it out and share more details. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mark Forrest Posted June 10 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 10 38 minutes ago, Mark Forrest said: There has been a recent article on modelling Ffestiniog track in MRJ, possibly in 1/32 scale though. I'll dig it out and share more details. Peter Kazer writing in MRJ 302 Double headed rail 24' long 44-46 lb/yd S shaped chairs Larch sleepers, measuring 4'6" x 9' x 4 1/2" at 2'6" centres (1'6" at rail joints). Fishplates were a U shaped design, not unlike the Peco ones they sell for their bullhead rail. No idea what that equates to in 7mm scale, but hope it helps. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 Some NG lines used standard gauge sleepers cut in half...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Indomitable026 Posted June 11 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted June 11 On 10/06/2024 at 10:28, Mark Forrest said: Peter Kazer writing in MRJ 302 Double headed rail 24' long 44-46 lb/yd S shaped chairs Larch sleepers, measuring 4'6" x 9' x 4 1/2" at 2'6" centres (1'6" at rail joints). Fishplates were a U shaped design, not unlike the Peco ones they sell for their bullhead rail. No idea what that equates to in 7mm scale, but hope it helps. Hi Mark, Cheers for that. So I need to work out what code rail I need 44-46lb/yd rail. It feels like it’s going to be something between what we use for 4mm and 7mm. I also suspect they had their own chairs cast, again an in between size as above. As an aside does templot have anything for NG? Thanks Damian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted June 11 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 11 (edited) After chatting with a couple of the Peco design staff it’s also definitely worth asking the question to Peco to encourage them to do an O16.5/NG7 version of their mainline 009 track. This chart lists the actual dimensions plus S scale 1/64 equivalents but it should allow you to calculate 7mm sizes. http://www.s-scale.org.uk/rails.htm It lists FR 46/48lb rail as 4 1/4 inches (108mm) tall so that would be 2.48mm or code 100 as I’ve used for my L&B modules Some ATSF rail sections here which give an idea http://www.oldpway.info/drawings/1895pw_pl33_ATSFRusa_1.pdf Edited June 11 by PaulRhB 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Indomitable026 Posted June 11 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted June 11 36 minutes ago, PaulRhB said: After chatting with a couple of the Peco design staff it’s also definitely worth asking the question to Peco to encourage them to do an O16.5/NG7 version of their mainline 009 track. This chart lists the actual dimensions plus S scale 1/64 equivalents but it should allow you to calculate 7mm sizes. http://www.s-scale.org.uk/rails.htm It lists FR 46/48lb rail as 4 1/4 inches (108mm) tall so that would be 2.48mm or code 100 as I’ve used for my L&B modules Some ATSF rail sections here which give an idea http://www.oldpway.info/drawings/1895pw_pl33_ATSFRusa_1.pdf Paul, Thanks for this information. I thought we may end up around this rail size, I also seem to recall using code 82 in the distant past, for either L&B or perhaps something American I was doing at the time - although I think that was flat bottom and all lost in the midst of time. Yes I’ll give PECÓ a prod, as the current “crazy” track isn’t going to cut it with all these fantastic new models coming on stream and whatever follows in the future. Cheers Damian 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jub45565 Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 I know of people who have used S scale society chairs and code 95 rail for 014, and so 0-16.5 could use the same. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 3 hours ago, Indomitable026 said: Paul, Thanks for this information. I thought we may end up around this rail size, I also seem to recall using code 82 in the distant past, for either L&B or perhaps something American I was doing at the time - although I think that was flat bottom and all lost in the midst of time. Yes I’ll give PECÓ a prod, as the current “crazy” track isn’t going to cut it with all these fantastic new models coming on stream and whatever follows in the future. Cheers Damian It could have been Micro Engineering On30 track you were using. Still 16.5 gauge FB with regular square ended sleepers, available in code 70 and 83. To me looks wrong for British O-16.5 but great for On30. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium martin_wynne Posted June 11 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 11 4 hours ago, Indomitable026 said: As an aside does templot have anything for NG? Hi Damian, See: https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?posts/11024 Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Indomitable026 Posted June 11 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted June 11 2 hours ago, martin_wynne said: Hi Damian, See: https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?posts/11024 Martin. Hi Martin, Thanks for your help on this - and - thank you for your continued efforts on Templot, we’ve used it a lot over the years, an invaluable tool. Cheers, Damian 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Indomitable026 Posted June 12 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted June 12 22 hours ago, PaulRhB said: After chatting with a couple of the Peco design staff it’s also definitely worth asking the question to Peco to encourage them to do an O16.5/NG7 version of their mainline 009 track. This chart lists the actual dimensions plus S scale 1/64 equivalents but it should allow you to calculate 7mm sizes. http://www.s-scale.org.uk/rails.htm It lists FR 46/48lb rail as 4 1/4 inches (108mm) tall so that would be 2.48mm or code 100 as I’ve used for my L&B modules Some ATSF rail sections here which give an idea http://www.oldpway.info/drawings/1895pw_pl33_ATSFRusa_1.pdf Paul, I’ve written to PECÓ and stated my case. Kind Regards Damian 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 NG chairs are approx half the size of full size ones. For quarry layouts, Peco Bullhead 00 code 75 will be quite representative enough (ignoring stub points of course) I feel. For what it's worth, here's a 16mm scale Dinorwic Loco sat on a Full Size Dinorwic chair: 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted June 12 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 12 1 hour ago, Quarryscapes said: For quarry layouts, Peco Bullhead 00 code 75 will be quite representative enough (ignoring stub points of course) I feel. Does anyone have any dimensions for the sleepers and spacing for the quarry lines? Mainline track like the FR and L&B has visually wider sleepers which wouldn’t work with the bullhead. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 There is a multi-page report dealing with hand-built O14 track from many years ago. It has a data page listing prototype track dimensions for several 2' lines and comparisons of commercially available rail sections. Unfortunately it is at home and I'm not....... As mentioned earlier some lines used standard gauge sleepers cut in half so BH 75 would look too skinny. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mike Bellamy Posted June 12 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 12 2 hours ago, Jeff Smith said: There is a multi-page report dealing with hand-built O14 track from many years ago. It has a data page listing prototype track dimensions for several 2' lines and comparisons of commercially available rail sections. Narrow Gauge and Industrial Railway Modelling Review . . . . . . . see links below which hopefully answer many of the questions above. https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0947/6392/files/Scale_Gauge_03.pdf?14170005119962245460 https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0947/6392/files/O14_track_articles_0.4a_digital.pdf?v=1664384451 . 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Indomitable026 Posted June 12 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted June 12 7 minutes ago, Mike Bellamy said: Narrow Gauge and Industrial Railway Modelling Review . . . . . . . see links below which hopefully answer many of the questions above. https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0947/6392/files/Scale_Gauge_03.pdf?14170005119962245460 https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0947/6392/files/O14_track_articles_0.4a_digital.pdf?v=1664384451 . Mike, you're a top man! Thanks Damian 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 9 minutes ago, Mike Bellamy said: Narrow Gauge and Industrial Railway Modelling Review . . . . . . . see links below which hopefully answer many of the questions above. https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0947/6392/files/Scale_Gauge_03.pdf?14170005119962245460 https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0947/6392/files/O14_track_articles_0.4a_digital.pdf?v=1664384451 . Correct, your second link is the one..... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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