Clifford Road Posted July 24, 2010 Author Share Posted July 24, 2010 Looks quite similar to something I planned, is there going to be a run round on the platform line ? because i can't see how you get freight to your yard unless it propels back, how do you get your loco round the right end again ? Hi Rob, Yes i'm going to add a crossover between the platform line and the freight loop at the left-hand end of the layout that will allow both the train loco and shunter to run-round freight workings, as well as releasing the passenger loco. Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifford Road Posted July 24, 2010 Author Share Posted July 24, 2010 Oops - forgot the photos! Attached are a couple of shots showing the track now its laid - with the exception of a couple of point which are screwed to hold them in place, all the meter lengths etc.. are temporarily held by double sided tape. Looking down the layout (from right to left on the trackplan). The camera is roughly where the roadbridge will go. Looking the other way - the road bridge (i.e. where the camera was in the last shot) being marked for reference. The only concession I've had to be make, which is a "like it or lump it" decision(!) is that the platform at the entry end will be narrower than I would like it, as you can see in this picture... A friend has lent me a couple of Mark 1 coaches for trials etc.. The space will still accommodate a platform, but its not as wide as I'd like. Progress ... as they say ... is being made! Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifford Road Posted December 4, 2010 Author Share Posted December 4, 2010 Evening all, Well after a lot of thought (and indecision!) together with a period away from the modelling due to work commitments, I had a complete change of heart and change of plan with regards to Clifford Road. The original plan was for a small through station based in the Manchester suburbs, but a lack of space (as detailed in previous posts) resulted in that becoming a terminal station with a stabling road (or two) and a small goods yard. Borrowing some coaches from a friend, I quickly realised that it just didn't work for me. Although it was far from where it needed to be I just couldn't see the model ever reaching my expectation of realism. So, with a deep breath and much head scratching I stepped back from things and tried to work out where I went from here. The result was a move of gauges in to O gauge. 7mm has always fascinated me, especially the large ECML O gauge layout at Gainsborough, but I'd always discounted it at home because of space after dabbling a few years ago. Having purposely looked at a few O gauge layouts on the web (both independent sites and on RMweb), as well as in reality at exhibitions recently I decided to bite the bullet and say if im going to do it, this is the way to go. A trip to Blackpool resulted in me walking out of Tower Models a fair few pounds lighter and with a repainted Heljan large logo 37 under my arm! That was back in early October. The layout has therefore been changed in most ways, its now depot based as opposed to station based, its 7mm rather than 4mm, and i've worked on the 'KISS' principal (Keep it simple, stupid!) with the realisation that less is actually more where model railways are concerned. The boards have all remained the same, but the layout (which will remain set in the 1980s period) will represent a Scottish Region TMD setting, somewhere at the south end of the West Highland Line - hence Clifford Road TMD was born. The approach from the sector plate is single track, fanning out to four sidings (two of which will be a depot building) the other two being for stored freight wagons (initially) while eventually when the loco fleet builds up, they will be loco stabling roads. Point work is Marcway 7mm with Peco metre-length. I know the two are substantially different in looks, but I don't think that will be all that noticeable once the track is weathered and ballasted. The following pictures give an idea of the basics.... The track work has all been laid on 5mm cork pads, to reduce the noise when trains are being run, having run the '37' over a section with and without cork underlay, it does appear to work! My plan is now to cut the cork away where there is no trackwork, so that it gives a shoulder the ballast. The only problem with the Marcway points is their operation, they tend to have a natural spring in one direction. Until I find a way of motorising them - tortoise motors are my preferred option, but limited space under the baseboard could be a problem - I've come up with a temporary way of working, using a home made crank, which is tight enough to hold the blades over - works great! I'm planning to construct a modern style depot building two cover the first two roads (nearest the side wall) which will be around 20 inches long to accommodate a single loco on each road. The kickback road (off Road 1) leads to a short fueling area, capable of holding one loco. I'll continue to keep this thread updated (hopefully with a fair bit of progress over Christmas!) if people are interested! Cheers Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
class"66" Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 Starting to take shape nicely....................... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold mudmagnet Posted December 5, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 5, 2010 Hi Rich, It's looking good and will follow with interest. You make the point that 'less is more' and this is very true when you compare 4mm with 7mm. You need less stock in 7mm than you would in 4mm. We had a discussion at my local club a couple of weeks ago where we discussed the general held believe that the cost of a model railway is roughtly the same for the same area in 4mm and 7mm, where for example in 4mm you would run 3 or 4 locos and in 7mm 1 loco - so you would spend between £300 - £400 in 4mm and about the same for one 7mm. You also need less rolling stock, somehow three or four wagons behind a 7mm loco looks right, where you may need half a dozen in 4mm! I think that the Tower Models locos do look very good indeed - I do like the 37. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wherry Lines Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 Rich, you could use SEEP point motors. They need very little depth, and are available with polarity switching and latching. I have some on my N gauge layout, and they work well. I think they are PM4's. Can't remember now though...! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 Hi Rich, Great work there, I applaud your decision to go 7mm!! The layout is looking good already, so enoy your Cristmas and keep us all posted! Cheers, John E. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifford Road Posted December 5, 2010 Author Share Posted December 5, 2010 Afternoon all,Thanks for the comments! Hi Rich, It's looking good and will follow with interest. You make the point that 'less is more' and this is very true when you compare 4mm with 7mm. You need less stock in 7mm than you would in 4mm. We had a discussion at my local club a couple of weeks ago where we discussed the general held believe that the cost of a model railway is roughtly the same for the same area in 4mm and 7mm, where for example in 4mm you would run 3 or 4 locos and in 7mm 1 loco - so you would spend between £300 - £400 in 4mm and about the same for one 7mm. You also need less rolling stock, somehow three or four wagons behind a 7mm loco looks right, where you may need half a dozen in 4mm! I think that the Tower Models locos do look very good indeed - I do like the 37. Yes I'd agree with that. I think you can do a lot more detail work in 7mm and some how it seems more realistic, hence giving more enjoyment - which at the end of the day is what this hobby is all about! Re the costings, I'd agree with that totally - everyone has their own opinions (and im the first to admit, im not a rivet-counter!) but the Heljan RTR locos are superb. Ok there may be niggles with them - a friend of my refused to buy the 47 because of the distance around the window or something of the like! - but its each to their own. At roughly £425 for a base loco, its achievable for a number of people and as you say, instead of splashing out £70-£90 on a 4mm loco every month or two, its just a case of saving up. This layout of mine is 13ft long by 1ft wide (2ft at the depot end) and with two fiddle roads, I think its maximum locos will be around 10. But in 4mm its probably nearer 30! Rich, you could use SEEP point motors. They need very little depth, and are available with polarity switching and latching. I have some on my N gauge layout, and they work well. I think they are PM4's. Can't remember now though...! Thanks - hadn't thought about SEEP motors ... will have to have a look. I like the Tortoise variety as being slow they don't slam the hell out of the rail as they go across - but may be the seeps would be worth a look! I'll keep it updated. Thanks Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristian1401 Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 Love the idea, nice and simple, being a fellow 'O' Gauger I will be following with interest! Kristian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 You make the point that 'less is more' and this is very true when you compare 4mm with 7mm. You need less stock in 7mm than you would in 4mm. ... the general held believe that the cost of a model railway is roughtly the same for the same area in 4mm and 7mm, where for example in 4mm you would run 3 or 4 locos and in 7mm 1 loco ...well that's the theory, anyway... and possibly true IF you can stick to that little word "need"... In my experience "need" is rather overtaken by "want", especially when it comes to locos, and I now have roughly the same amount of U.S.-outline locos in O scale as I did 20 years ago in N scale; no guessing which collection has cost me the most!! Such is the cost of British-outline O scale that I have had to stick to "need", and drawn a line under my small collection now. I have no desire to return to 4mm scale at all; I will just have to forget about owning any more British O scale diesels, however much I admire the likes of the Heljan 37, and would be sorely tempted if/when they do a Class 31. Sorry to go a bit off-topic. Nice layout idea; no doubt others too might be thinking the works & writings of Ian Futers would be of some help/inspiration to you... B) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifford Road Posted December 5, 2010 Author Share Posted December 5, 2010 ...well that's the theory, anyway... and possibly true IF you can stick to that little word "need"... In my experience "need" is rather overtaken by "want", especially when it comes to locos, and I now have roughly the same amount of U.S.-outline locos in O scale as I did 20 years ago in N scale; no guessing which collection has cost me the most!! Such is the cost of British-outline O scale that I have had to stick to "need", and drawn a line under my small collection now. I have no desire to return to 4mm scale at all; I will just have to forget about owning any more British O scale diesels, however much I admire the likes of the Heljan 37, and would be sorely tempted if/when they do a Class 31. Sorry to go a bit off-topic. Nice layout idea; no doubt others too might be thinking the works & writings of Ian Futers would be of some help/inspiration to you... B) Hi, Oh yes, I remember reading all of Ian Futers articles in the likes of Railway Modeller! I believe (although I may be wrong) Ian's latest layout is a two-platform terminal station with two sidings - grand total of 3 points?!?!?!! Wonderful layout, and *I think* also has a working breakdown crane! The Heljan 37 really is superb .... I did look at the Skytrex 31 and 37 at Warley - it may just be me - but something just doesn't look quite right with those somehow? The picture above was, amazingly, only taken on my iPhone, but im part way through fitting a sound chip to it so, will be interesting to see how the realism goes when thats working!! Did '31s' ever venture into the Glasgow area in the 1980s?? Not sure, although if Heljan happened to do one, I think one may arrive on Clifford Road on a railtour! I'm eagerly awaiting the 27 in February/March/April (take your own guess!) as that will work with the Scottish theme perfectly! Nice sulzer tone ticking over on shed! I have actually just splashed out a little (make that a lot!) bit! So rumour has it that the allocation of Clifford Road TMD could increase if control work out what they are doing with the snowploughs .... in reality if Royal Mail manage a delivery this week!!! Thanks for the comments btw! Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifford Road Posted December 5, 2010 Author Share Posted December 5, 2010 Love the idea, nice and simple, being a fellow 'O' Gauger I will be following with interest! Kristian Thanks Kristian - its amazing how much writing on a forum and people passing comment (both good and bad) spurs you on to do things! Better than just doing it yourself!!! Hope you enjoy it. Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristian1401 Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 Cheers, Yes i ought to start a documentation of what im doing on here really, O gauge BLT in 9x3 How big is your layout? Kristian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifford Road Posted December 5, 2010 Author Share Posted December 5, 2010 Evening all, Great work there, I applaud your decision to go 7mm!! The layout is looking good already, so enoy your Cristmas and keep us all posted! Thanks John - I will, and same to you! Cheers, Yes i ought to start a documentation of what im doing on here really, O gauge BLT in 9x3 How big is your layout? Kristian My god thats one hell of a sandwich isn't it! A 9x3 BLT ... is that nine of them three layers thick, or the size of the sandwich in inches???!!!???!!! Lol! Whats BLT in model railway talk - im struggling to translate that! The layout is 13ft long .. see the pic below:- These were the boards before any track was laid. At the camera end its 2ft wide. This narrows to 1ft wide for the central section and then to 6inches wide behind the computer. The only change since this picture was taken, being the triangular section, which is now a far easier angle to accommodate O gauge track and comes in above the blue filing cabinet. For those of you that haven't guessed, this is down one side of my office!! The four track depot is at the camera end, the sector plate, which I've been working on this afternoon is at the 6inch end... Got it moving quite nicely, which was surprising to be honest! We'll see how it performs when trains start running! Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 I did look at the Skytrex 31 and 37 at Warley - it may just be me - but something just doesn't look quite right with those somehow? Fear not. It is not just you.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
binesrail Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 great progress, will like to see how this one terns out, it will be interesting to see what you can fit into the space of a 4mm layout. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifford Road Posted December 6, 2010 Author Share Posted December 6, 2010 great progress, will like to see how this one terns out, it will be interesting to see what you can fit into the space of a 4mm layout. Chris Hi Chris, Thanks for the comment. I think it will show more once i start to get the limited scenery & retaining walls on the layout! Having usually attempted something far far larger in OO gauge and again, usually lost interest before its anywhere near finished ... I'm really looking forward to push this on. If I can get it looking half-way towards realistic ... or a quarter of the way towards some of the layouts on here like Waverley West or Cramdin Yard etc.. I'll be well happy! I think also choosing a depot setting should mean its more physical scenery, rather than grass embankments etc... My main priority is the depot building, which I'm hoping to start this week - long as Royal Mail deliver my foamboard! Although it will be slightly different, my aim is something similar to Pete Harvey's Depot Building (and here), although based around the example that used to stand at Muir Of Ord, when the Ness Bridge collapsed. Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristian1401 Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 Branch Line Terminus not a bacon lettuce and Tomato sandwich, that would be a hell of a sandwich though! Its still at the idea/ building stage as i needs to work out what to do about a fiddle yard! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBill Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 Hi Rich, The layout's looking nice. Your sector plate is very similar to the one I'm currently working on. In my experience I've found that using a smooth masonite base under the plate makes the action much smoother, especially when there's rolling stock on it. Also, watch for bowing in the plate itself if you use adhesive on the track. Regards, -Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifford Road Posted December 6, 2010 Author Share Posted December 6, 2010 Hi All, Branch Line Terminus not a bacon lettuce and Tomato sandwich, that would be a hell of a sandwich though! Its still at the idea/ building stage as i needs to work out what to do about a fiddle yard! Ah! Never thought about Branch Line Terminus!! The penny has dropped! The fiddle yard was my problem with the layout ... well in actual fact it was a lack of space FOR said fiddle yard!! I ended up settling on 2 three-foot roads for it, but may reduce that to one and use a cassette-based system yet! Hi Rich, The layout's looking nice. Your sector plate is very similar to the one I'm currently working on. In my experience I've found that using a smooth masonite base under the plate makes the action much smoother, especially when there's rolling stock on it. Also, watch for bowing in the plate itself if you use adhesive on the track. Regards, -Bill Bill, Thanks for that - I actually used an old CD-ROM turned up side down and located between the baseboard and the sector plate board, with the bolt through the middle - provides a very free moving surface to the sector plate! How it works in anger once things get running ..... i'll let you know! Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifford Road Posted December 7, 2010 Author Share Posted December 7, 2010 Afternoon all, Well an evening of going round in circles yesterday! On the layout there is a straight forwarded crossover marcway l/h point to marcway l/h point. Nothing complicated as you can see .... Well with no power on Line A - all worked fine. Locos could be moved from Line B to Line C (i.e. straight on) or from Line B to Line A without problems. Attached power (carefully connecting positive and negative to the same rails) and the A to A is fine, B to C is fine, but the controller shorts when the route is set to go B to A. Ok, no problems add an extra feed in beyond the point (where the 37 is in this image) and add insulating joiners to all rail joints on the point. Bingo, problem solved. Except that when a loco approaches the points from Line B heading to Line A, it works fine until the leading wheels come on to the point when the controller trips. Push the loco back over the metal railjoiners on to the meter length that it has just come down and it works fine - second it hits the points, it shorts again! Very odd! When set to go B to C, its fine! but B to A (over isolated joiners) is a no go! So S&T were called out to investigate ... and the foreman of this motley looking gang (yours truly!) decided a change of infrastructure was required. Totally by chance (100% fluke!) when I ordered the points I had intended adding an extra L/H in but after delivery of them, decided it cramped the depot too much. So anyway, a possession was taken, the point was change (retaining the insulating joiners) and all works fine this morning. Can anyone off any suggestions as to why the fault occurred? I've compared the new and old points and there is nothing different - no stray strands of wire, no odd track pins that have caught up somewhere (yes had that one before!) no nothing. I'm totally bewildered, but would like to know for future reference if anyone can offer a suggestion??? Strangely, I tried the point connected to Line B, but with NO other rails attached to either route(i.e. Line A and C not connected) and the same thing still happens which seemed very odd to me, given that it worked perfectly before! It also seems odd that the power only trips out when the loco actually hits the points. In the past when I've had a fault, as soon as power is supplied, it shorts and trips! Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristian1401 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 Hello Rich, Sorry not a clue how to answer to your problem perhaps the cross polarities when switching? Is the 08 new? if its the Bachmann model. they run beautifully! Ive got one Kristian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 Hi Rich, Just caught your thread and its wonderful to know you I'm not alone in this mad modellers world !!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have spent a fortune over the years getting it wrong but now I have settled down a bit. I only have a 9 ft x 7 ft room but I have an O Gauge West county yard down one side  ( St Budoc ) and an OO Blue period Scottish terminus down the other ( Glen Roy ). I have also just built a modern terminus ( Deesdale Road ). Ian Futers books are very good if you want ideas for Scottish themed layouts. The Heljan 37 is a fantastic looking loco and in Large Logo you cant go wrong. I like the KISS approach I've never heard that before. Plastic O Gauge wagons are easy and very theraputic to build so I look forward to seeing some on the finished layout. Well done so far.  Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifford Road Posted December 7, 2010 Author Share Posted December 7, 2010 Hello Rich, Sorry not a clue how to answer to your problem perhaps the cross polarities when switching? Is the 08 new? if its the Bachmann model. they run beautifully! Ive got one Kristian Hi Kristian, I've had a Bachmann 08 in green for a few years - since I last dabbled in O gauge - but the blue one (pic below) is a recent arrival having sold the green one about 8 months back ... yes they are superb! Both of the ones I've had have made a slight intermittent grinding noise, but run really nice and smoothly. I wondered about cross polarities, but I don't think it was. Total mystery! Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifford Road Posted December 7, 2010 Author Share Posted December 7, 2010 Hi Rich, Just caught your thread and its wonderful to know you I'm not alone in this mad modellers world !!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have spent a fortune over the years getting it wrong but now I have settled down a bit. I only have a 9 ft x 7 ft room but I have an O Gauge West county yard down one side ( St Budoc ) and an OO Blue period Scottish terminus down the other ( Glen Roy ). I have also just built a modern terminus ( Deesdale Road ). Ian Futers books are very good if you want ideas for Scottish themed layouts. The Heljan 37 is a fantastic looking loco and in Large Logo you cant go wrong. I like the KISS approach I've never heard that before. Plastic O Gauge wagons are easy and very theraputic to build so I look forward to seeing some on the finished layout. Well done so far. Hi Andrew, Thanks for the comments - yup, your definitely not alone! To be honest, I've got to the point where (for me) trains going round and round don't do anything for me, but thats my personal opinion. So I settled on the depot idea as it allowed me to concentrate on a small area and try and get the detail into it. I've an updated to put on here, having done a bit to the layout tonight, but I'll get the SLR camera out tomorrow and do some proper pictures, rather than the ones I have been posting off the iPhone! The Heljan 37 is really nice .. mine looks distinctly odd at the moment as its no buffers and no fuel tank on! Think it must have been Eastfield's Christmas Tree!! I'm in the middle of fitting a SWD Loksound chip and speaker to it, which will hopefully get completed this week and it will look decent again! Always think Large Logo was the best livery for the 37s and 47s! Thanks again, are your two layouts featured on RMweb?? Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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