Lime carrying wagons, how to model these.

[Richard_A]

The image attached has been taken from the book, red dragon and other old friends. 

 

The covered vans which are assumed to be carrying limestone look quite interesting and I would like to make a few, I model in 4mm to the foot and am aware of the peco wagon but it doesn't really appear to match these. 

 

Can anyone point me in the right direction, either kit bashing or scratch building, I don't mind. 

[Fat Controller]

They'll be carrying burnt lime, which needs to be kept dry; it reacts very violently with water. The wagons are noticeably shorter than other mineral types; reflecting the density of the load. If you can't find drawings for the lime wagon, you might find one for a salt wagon, which is similar in design.

[Paul H Vigor]

1 hour ago, Richard_A said:

The image attached has been taken from the book, red dragon and other old friends. 

 

The covered vans which are assumed to be carrying limestone look quite interesting and I would like to make a few, I model in 4mm to the foot and am aware of the peco wagon but it doesn't really appear to match these. 

 

Can anyone point me in the right direction, either kit bashing or scratch building, I don't mind. 

Limestone or burnt lime? Salt wagons shared a similar style of roof.

[Richard_A]

5 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

They'll be carrying burnt lime, which needs to be kept dry; it reacts very violently with water. The wagons are noticeably shorter than other mineral types; reflecting the density of the load. If you can't find drawings for the lime wagon, you might find one for a salt wagon, which is similar in design.

Thanks, I forgot about the need for burnt lime to be kept dry, even though I used some once for a repointing job, very scary but exiting. 

 

I know Ian kirk used to produce a salt wagon kit, might be worth finding one. 

[Paul H Vigor]

Plenty of 00 lime wagons listed on ebay.

[Richard_A]

Just now, Paul H Vigor said:

Plenty of 00 lime wagons listed on ebay.

Cheers, I suppose there must be a typical design for them. 

[Paul H Vigor]

7 minutes ago, Richard_A said:

Cheers, I suppose there must be a typical design for them. 

Its basically a wooden open wagon fitted with a pitched roof.

[Steamport Southport]

Drawings have definitely appeared over the years.

 

Careful not to equate them with the salt or grain wagons. They were very different.

 

Salt "wagons" were pitched roof vans and used for packaged salt. The grain wagons were hoppers with no side doors.

 

 

 

Jason

[Richard_A]

12 minutes ago, Paul H Vigor said:

Its basically a wooden open wagon fitted with a pitched roof.

These look like they are seven planks high on the sides and 10 on the ends, I wonder if a cambrian kit or similar could be adapted. 

[burgundy]

Lime wagon from the Woodham Wagon Works range - with real, working, dumb buffers.  

Best wishes 

Eric 

[Richard_A]

I was looking on the hmrs website at these wagons. 

 

I might be able to figure something out. 

[Steamport Southport]

51 minutes ago, Richard_A said:

Thanks, I forgot about the need for burnt lime to be kept dry, even though I used some once for a repointing job, very scary but exiting. 

 

I know Ian kirk used to produce a salt wagon kit, might be worth finding one. 

 

Slaters made a salt wagon. I don't think it has been reissued yet.

 

https://www.slatersplastikard.com/wagons/4mmWagons.php

 

Ian Kirk made the grain wagon, originally part of the Westykits range.

 

https://www.hamodels.net/parkside-models-pc51-private-owner-grain-wagon-decals-included.html

 

 

 

Jason

[MarcD]

I do a Cambrian lime wagon in 4mm. It needs a tarp if you were having it loaded. This is the 7mm version built some time ago it's been up graded since this was built.

Marc

[Quarryscapes]

18 hours ago, Richard_A said:

The image attached has been taken from the book, red dragon and other old friends. 

 

The covered vans which are assumed to be carrying limestone look quite interesting and I would like to make a few, I model in 4mm to the foot and am aware of the peco wagon but it doesn't really appear to match these. 

 

Can anyone point me in the right direction, either kit bashing or scratch building, I don't mind. 

 

These are Steetley Lime & Basic Wagons which are available RTR from Dapol in O gauge. A google search will reveal drawings online (They can be found in print in the WIld Swan published Mike Lloyd Tanat Valley Light Railway Book). In 00 Dapol also do an RTR Lime wagon, however it is a generic model, and not particularly accurate. It is available in the later SLB livery of Steetley if you particularly want Porthywaen sourced Lime on your layout. 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

17 hours ago, MarcD said:

I do a Cambrian lime wagon in 4mm. It needs a tarp if you were having it loaded.

Since you clearly have knowledge of the subject, do you know what packaging was typically  used for the quicklime (burnt lime, Calcium Oxide) transported in such wagons? Interesting that your pre-group period model had a tarp bar, I would guess that accumulated experience suggested that a roof construction to provide superior wet weather protection, and much less chance of a quantity of water spilled from a sagging tarp landing on the packaged quicklime, was 'advisable'. Thanks.

[Richard_A]

6 hours ago, Quarryscapes said:

 

These are Steetley Lime & Basic Wagons which are available RTR from Dapol in O gauge. A google search will reveal drawings online (They can be found in print in the WIld Swan published Mike Lloyd Tanat Valley Light Railway Book). In 00 Dapol also do an RTR Lime wagon, however it is a generic model, and not particularly accurate. It is available in the later SLB livery of Steetley if you particularly want Porthywaen sourced Lime on your layout. 

Thank you, very informative. 

 

Just need to figure out how to make some in 4mm scale. 

 

I think the book will be bought. 

[41516]

Some time ago, I acquired two scratchbuilt lime wagons in an ebay job lot.  Well started but poorly finished and incomplete.  They really need a complete strip to deal with superglue runs on the strapping, etc, but the bodies are quite sound.

 

Posting in the interests of showing how a scractchbuild could be done - doesn't look the hardest project really.

 

Ingredients seem to be -  Scribed plasticard sides and ends (15ft over headstocks, 9ft wheelbase).  Sides are a liitle taller (14.5mm) than a Slaters Gloucester 5-plank.  Mainly Trains etchs for corner plates, strapping and other bits, Bill Bedford W-irons and brake gear.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MarcD]

11 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Since you clearly have knowledge of the subject, do you know what packaging was typically  used for the quicklime (burnt lime, Calcium Oxide) transported in such wagons? Interesting that your pre-group period model had a tarp bar, I would guess that accumulated experience suggested that a roof construction to provide superior wet weather protection, and much less chance of a quantity of water spilled from a sagging tarp landing on the packaged quicklime, was 'advisable'. Thanks.

I'm not 100% clued up on Lime movements. But I would have thought it would have been in bulk ie one bloke and shovel with the stuff going in and out using the same system. Later in life the Cambrian wagons were fitted with sprung buffers but still with the tarp bar.

The wagon appears in the Tanentt valley Light railway book and in the new Cambrian stock book.

Marc

[burgundy]

Various photos of the Amberley chalk pits suggest that standard Brighton open A wagons (high round ended, like the second vehicle in my photo above) with a tarpaulin were used.  There is even a sketch in the Middleton Press volume, Crawley to Littlehampton, suggesting private owner wagon sheets, lettered Pepper and Son, although I don't know of a photograph to confirm that.

Best wishes 

Eric