HOP 21/HTO/HTV, By Accurascale

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

On 26/05/2024 at 10:49, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Apologies for going slightly off topic, but as none AS models have already been discussed, I'm assuming the old K's kit is an original LNER dia 100 wagon?

I was quite excited when the 'old K's kit' was initially advertised, in the early 70's, albeit described as LNER 24 ton steel hopper: which dia 100 wasn't, always and only 20T; but let us be generous, I suspect this was the subject intended.

 

One attempt at assembling this sample of unmitigated crap, end of happy expectation: no two pieces cast sufficiently dimensionally accurate to fit against another, and horribly distorted, much of it not correctable; a very soft whitemetal had been used, and presumably the casting operator was having a migraine or worse. The retailer agreed after some inspection of his stock and a refund was received, even for the two I had consigned to the ballast weight bin.

 

A real surprise after such satisfactory items as K's LMS/BR open shock wagon and similar, some of which I still have. And then the dear late Adrian Swain started his whitemetal wagon range, and with that demonstration of a much superior product, K's got no further custom from me...

[John Isherwood]

27 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

I was quite excited when the 'old K's kit' was initially advertised, in the early 70's, albeit described as LNER 24 ton steel hopper: which dia 100 wasn't, always and only 20T; but let us be generous, I suspect this was the subject intended.

 

One attempt at assembling this sample of unmitigated crap, end of happy expectation: no two pieces cast sufficiently dimensionally accurate to fit against another, and horribly distorted, much of it not correctable; a very soft whitemetal had been used, and presumably the casting operator was having a migraine or worse. The retailer agreed after some inspection of his stock and a refund was received, even for the two I had consigned to the ballast weight bin.

 

A real surprise after such satisfactory items as K's LMS/BR open shock wagon and similar, some of which I still have. And then the dear late Adrian Swain started his whitemetal wagon range, and with that demonstration of a much superior product, K's got no further custom from me...

 

The K's kit represented the sole(?) prototype of the BR 24T mineral hopper. The production wagons had significant differences - not least in the configuration of the end and side slopes.

 

I have one of these kits running on my layout - though I modified it to be one of the production run.

 

CJI.

[Enterprisingwestern]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

The K's kit represented the sole(?) prototype of the BR 24T mineral hopper

 

Having got one some 50 or so years ago, it's been in the roundtuit pile ever since, that information is very useful, more research required!

I wonder if anybody does transfers for this one off?

 

Mike.

[Southernman46]

6 hours ago, zr2498 said:

Thanks - good news for Accurascale as the HOP  21 marking just scrapes into the end of era 5 👍

as former "wagon-spotter" I can confirm the HOP21 branding survived well into the 1980's along with HOP 24, COAL 16, HOP32 AB, VAN VANWIDE etc etc

Edited May 27 by Southernman46

[John Isherwood]

3 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Having got one some 50 or so years ago, it's been in the roundtuit pile ever since, that information is very useful, more research required!

I wonder if anybody does transfers for this one off?

 

Mike.

 

Without checking on my PC, I can't be certain - but I would be disappointed if I had failed to include the prototype on my 24T hopper wagon sheet.

 

John Isherwood.

[Tappa]

11 hours ago, MJI said:

I need to do two with this chassis type, what bits did you use please?

The chassis is the Parkside LNER 21t hopper (kit ref. PC80) but I then replaced the w-irons with the continental version that is available from Ambis Engineering. The brake lever is also from Ambis. Axleboxes and springs are from Rumney Models.

[Enterprisingwestern]

46 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Without checking on my PC, I can't be certain - but I would be disappointed if I had failed to include the prototype on my 24T hopper wagon sheet.

 

John Isherwood.

 

Sheet BL66 doesn't seem to mention it specifically, and it wasn't until you mentioned it's uniqueness that I knew of it!

 

Mike.

[John Isherwood]

Just now, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Sheet BL66 doesn't seem to mention it specifically, and it wasn't until you mentioned it's uniqueness that I knew of it!

 

Mike.

 

I will try and remember to check the sheet tomorrow.

 

Feel free to prod me if my aging brain fails me!

 

CJI.

[brushman47544]

Am I correct when looking at the Accurascale website that there is no bauxite HTV set that is correct for the 1970s? All the sets appear to have the later OHL flashes on the ends that dates them from the mid 80s onwards. Or were there not bauxite HTVs that early?

[45125]

6 minutes ago, brushman47544 said:

Am I correct when looking at the Accurascale website that there is no bauxite HTV set that is correct for the 1970s? All the sets appear to have the later OHL flashes on the ends that dates them from the mid 80s onwards. Or were there not bauxite HTVs that early?

The first fitted 21tonner appeared around 1957.

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

10 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

I will try and remember to check the sheet tomorrow.

 

Feel free to prod me if my aging brain fails me!

 

CJI.

 

BUMP!!

 

MIke.

[Mophead45143]

9 hours ago, brushman47544 said:

Am I correct when looking at the Accurascale website that there is no bauxite HTV set that is correct for the 1970s? All the sets appear to have the later OHL flashes on the ends that dates them from the mid 80s onwards. Or were there not bauxite HTVs that early?

 

I noticed this and thought it was a little unusual, as Accurascale usual cover all eras in their multi-packs. Besides, the earlier style of OHLE lasted into the 1980's on wagons, so would have been the most widespread.

 

From photographic evidence, it appears that the later style of OHLE started to appear on HTV's at least as early as 1978, so they're suitable for the very late 70's onwards as they are.

 

Still, a pretty easy job to fix with some OHLE transfers!

 

Cameron

[brushman47544]

2 hours ago, Mophead45143 said:

 

I noticed this and thought it was a little unusual, as Accurascale usual cover all eras in their multi-packs. Besides, the earlier style of OHLE lasted into the 1980's on wagons, so would have been the most widespread.

 

From photographic evidence, it appears that the later style of OHLE started to appear on HTV's at least as early as 1978, so they're suitable for the very late 70's onwards as they are.

 

Still, a pretty easy job to fix with some OHLE transfers!

 

Cameron

 

Of course it can be fixed, but there are five bauxite wagon packs so why do they all have to have the later flashes? And considering the price (not unreasonable but still) I'm not willing to try and risk making a hash of it. The flashes are simply too small, but highly visible.

 

I was similarly disappointed with the Mk2bs where the "Inter-City" BFK and FK had the earlier flash but not one of the three "Inter-City" TSOs did so to match. The HTVs are a much more marginal purchase so I will resist until exactly what I want is produced.

[Steve Purves]

On 25/05/2024 at 11:58, Mophead45143 said:

A fantastic, if somewhat inevitable announcement! :) It does seem insane that it has taken this long for the HTV in particular to be made ready to run, given how common they were in the BR blue era.

 

I am curious about the artwork for these though. So far the HUO's, MDO's and forthcoming MCO's are all in light grey. Some of the artwork illustrations for these forthcoming models however use a much darker grey, notably the HTV pack G (below).

 

<cut>

 

These look to be much darker than in any photos I have ever seen of the real wagons, which look much more like the grey already used by Accurascale on their other minerals and hoppers. Is this how the models will actually look, or is this an error in the artwork? 

 

Pack F has a mixture of shades.

 

 

Regards,

 

Cameron

 

 

 

11 hours ago, brushman47544 said:

Am I correct when looking at the Accurascale website that there is no bauxite HTV set that is correct for the 1970s? All the sets appear to have the later OHL flashes on the ends that dates them from the mid 80s onwards. Or were there not bauxite HTVs that early?

 

Allow me, as project manager, to expand a little on these points!

 

With regard to the colours as shown on the artworks, the light grey will be the same as used previously. I have included one with patch painting in a pack with differing shades of grey to represent a set of wagons later in their life... "Ready for weathering" as it were. The actual shades are much closer than can bee seen on the artworks as I had to exaggerate the differences to help the factory see the differences. They will, in reality, be much closer and will be shown on the decorated samples. The earliest wagons represent "ex works" before much regional variation was applied, the higher the packs, the more patches and variations can be seen. 

 

On the HTV side of things, as has been noted, we have gone with the rebodied HTV for the first tranche of 'fitted' models. The 5-rib HTV will be following shortly after, and with it a whole host of "early" fitted vehicles, its's just simply impossible to do everything at once and factoring exclusives we are already over 40 individual wagons! Aside from this, the artworks are shown as "representative" and some corrections have already been made. There are going to be a few rebodied HTV's in the packs with early flashes - these will be updated in due course. 

 

Regards

Steve

[The Stationmaster]

18 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Having got one some 50 or so years ago, it's been in the roundtuit pile ever since, that information is very useful, more research required!

I wonder if anybody does transfers for this one off?

 

Mike.

I put one together, and I got the body and axleboxes square, but even with pinpoint axles running in brass bearing cups it was a very heavy thing to tow around in a train so it was never painted.  Back to 21 tonners?

[John Isherwood]

3 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

BUMP!!

 

MIke.

 

Right - let's be clear - the K's kit represents a BR 24.5T mineral hopper - as such, my Sheet BL66 is not appropriate; what is needed is BL156.

 

When I came to build my K's kit, I found that the components differed from photos of the real wagon, insomuch as the disposition of the side slopes resembled the 21T hopper, whereas the real 24.5T wagon had differently configured side slopes.

 

Following some research - almost certainly in David Larkin's wagon data sheets, I learned that the first few 24.5T hoppers had side slopes disposed in the same way as the 21T wagon, but subsequent production had a different arrangement of side slopes.

 

Checking the content of my transfer sheet, I find that 24.5T hoppers B330000, B330001 & B330002 are included. It would be unusual for me to include three consecutive numbers unless the prototypes displayed some special feature. I therefore conclude, without repeating the research, that these first three wagons were the initial batch, and that subsequent production was to the revised body arrangements.

 

I hope that this information answers your query, but do get back to me if not.

 

John Isherwood.

 

 

[brushman47544]

3 hours ago, Steve Purves said:

There are going to be a few rebodied HTV's in the packs with early flashes - these will be updated in due course. 

 

That's good to know thanks Steve. Hopefully at least one of these packs will be all early flashes and I can then place an order.

[Graham108]

I can't see an option with a flashing tail light anywhere

[Southernman46]

Oh and can the hopper doors be operational too .................................. 🙄

[Flying Pig]

49 minutes ago, Southernman46 said:

Oh and can the hopper doors be operational too .................................. 🙄

 

You'd need DCC teemers to work them.

[Enterprisingwestern]

5 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Right - let's be clear - the K's kit represents a BR 24.5T mineral hopper - as such, my Sheet BL66 is not appropriate; what is needed is BL156.

 

When I came to build my K's kit, I found that the components differed from photos of the real wagon, insomuch as the disposition of the side slopes resembled the 21T hopper, whereas the real 24.5T wagon had differently configured side slopes.

 

Following some research - almost certainly in David Larkin's wagon data sheets, I learned that the first few 24.5T hoppers had side slopes disposed in the same way as the 21T wagon, but subsequent production had a different arrangement of side slopes.

 

Checking the content of my transfer sheet, I find that 24.5T hoppers B330000, B330001 & B330002 are included. It would be unusual for me to include three consecutive numbers unless the prototypes displayed some special feature. I therefore conclude, without repeating the research, that these first three wagons were the initial batch, and that subsequent production was to the revised body arrangements.

 

I hope that this information answers your query, but do get back to me if not.

 

John Isherwood.

 

 

 

Fantastic information John, it's made it all somewhat clearer, thank you.

An order for BL156 incoming!

 

Mike.

 

[Downendian]

Just a taster if you have placed an order with Accurascale for these. One of my Parkside rakes is running now after a lot of attention. This video was taken about 3 days ago, another two hoppers were added to the unfitted portion of the train. Should really be a Western or Bath road Brush 4 up front, but 20 177 is undergoing running trials. Still minor tweaks including fitting brake levers to some wagons which have become detached with multiple visits to the workbench.

My yet to be completed layout was the test bed, 21 Hoppers plus airfix brake van- yes I know the tail light needs dimming a bit.

Neil

 

 

[Porcy Mane]

2 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

Fantastic information John, it's made it all somewhat clearer, thank you.

An order for BL156 incoming!

 

you could always have a go at printing your own.  😉

 

This is based on the official BR portrait of B333000. No tare patches had been applied when the phot was taken so it mustn't have been weighed.

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

1 hour ago, Porcy Mane said:

you could always have a go at printing your own.  

 

Yeah, right!

 

Mike.

[Mophead45143]

2 hours ago, Downendian said:

Should really be a Western or Bath road Brush 4 up front, but 20 177 is undergoing running trials.

 

Nice rake, and glad to see 20 177 is enjoying its new home! ;)

 

Cameron