HOP 21/HTO/HTV, By Accurascale

[Fat Controller]

1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Sand is bad enough, but this doesn't sound like the sort of stuff you'd want blowing off unsheeted wagons and getting into passengers' eyes at stations, axlebox bearings, engines, etc.

The wagons in abrasive traffic (mainly from Hull to Stafford) had a semi-permanent wagon sheet. The terminal was on the remains of the former GWR line from Stafford to Wellington.

[zr2498]

1 hour ago, Mophead45143 said:

 

While the Hornby model looks good at first glance, it's worth noting that the handrail configuration on the end of the models is incorrect, at least it certainly is for later wagons of this type (not sure about earlier LNER ones). Also, all four of the models that I bought are TERRIBLE runners, with the wheels fouling on the hopper doors and brake gear. I've had to hack away at them and they still run as if the handbrakes have been pinned!!!

 

 

Cameron

 

Cameron

Oh dear! Thanks for heads up. Just tested the Hornby hoppers. Terrible is a kind word. They wouldn't even start to go down Gordons Hill if Sam was to get hold of them.  Looks as though some hacking and brass bearings might be needed. Added to the job list (maybe?)

[Enterprisingwestern]

3 minutes ago, zr2498 said:

Cameron

Oh dear! Thanks for heads up. Just tested the Hornby hoppers. Terrible is a kind word. They wouldn't even start to go down Gordons Hill if Sam was to get hold of them.  Looks as though some hacking and brass bearings might be needed. Added to the job list (maybe?)

 

Convert to EM!

Just sayin'

 

Mike.

[bazjones1711]

Some of the last flows of the HTV that lasted  into the late 1980's were as follows :

Port Talbot to Avonmouth Hallen Marsh with coke for the zinc factory , usually with a class 37 , later used HEA

Oakdale colliery to Llanwern with coal, later used HAA

Orgreave to Scunthorpe with coke, later used HEA

Possibly one of the last uses of HTV was the flow of imported coal from Newport docks to the cement factory at Chinnor  ( i have list somewhere of the most of the pool at the time , will see if i can find it )

usually a class 47 .

A few could often be found mixed in with other wagons like MDV on scrap trains to ASW Cardiff from the likes of Snailwell

 

[drjcontroller]

1 hour ago, bazjones1711 said:

Possibly one of the last uses of HTV was the flow of imported coal from Newport docks to the cement factory at Chinnor  ( i have list somewhere of the most of the pool at the time , will see if i can find it )

usually a class 47 .

 

 

Here's one taken on the 2nd of September 1988 of 47005 passing Iver with that service.

 

[Mark C]

3 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Convert to EM!

Just sayin'

 

Mike.

Ha!  Blindingly obvious to me now, but I learned the hard way when building my dozen or so Parkside kits, that not only did the (00 gauge Alan Gibson) wheels need the correct back-to-back, but they also needed to be central on the axle and any moulding pips on the wheels' rear faces required careful removal too.  The clearances between the rear of the wheels and the hopper structure is 1mm maximum - any wonky wheels or imprecise construction are soon found out...

 

...or convert to EM!

 

Mark

 

[Covkid]

On 25/05/2024 at 15:17, Porcy Mane said:

 

There's a few pics of 21 tonners knocking about up in the valleys.

 

OCT 74 04. Barclay 0-6-0ST Llantanam Abbey at Mountain Ash, September 1974 by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

 

Did anyone else notice that track adjacent to where the loco is standing ? 

At first glance it looks like interlaced track but I believe it is probably a weighbridge and an "avoider line", but not one I have ever seen before.   Fascinating, and something which could be modelled on a layout as a point of interest   

[zr2498]

7 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Building the Parkside kits has fried your brain cells!!!

 

Mike.

Modifiying the Hornby hoppers might also damage some brain cells.

Having read through the 6 pages of:

 

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/forums/topic/94955-hornbys-new-21-ton-hopper/page/6/

 

It seems that Accurascale have opened a Pandora's box. Pity they didn't start with the earlier 1/141s and /or even 1/143s.

By the time all of the corrections are made to the Hornby models, it won't be far off the Acc price!

Is the general concensus that the changing to Dapol wheelsets solves the wheel clearance / body issue?

[Tappa]

6 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

The wagons in abrasive traffic (mainly from Hull to Stafford) had a semi-permanent wagon sheet. The terminal was on the remains of the former GWR line from Stafford to Wellington.

That would be the Electro Furnace Products traffic using wagons coded UZP. I’m in the process of making a short rake using the Parkside kit. This is the first one done.

[Chiltern Junction]

5 hours ago, bazjones1711 said:

Possibly one of the last uses of HTV was the flow of imported coal from Newport docks to the cement factory at Chinnor  ( i have list somewhere of the most of the pool at the time , will see if i can find it )

usually a class 47 .

 

 

The last service to Chinnor was 20 December 1989 so definately one of the last. Usually a Class 47 as you say, but also saw the odd 33, 37or 45 too so an interesting service to model.

[Mophead45143]

1 hour ago, zr2498 said:

By the time all of the corrections are made to the Hornby models, it won't be far off the Acc price!

Is the general concensus that the changing to Dapol wheelsets solves the wheel clearance / body issue?

 

I quickly swapped the wheelsets just now with my older Dapol conversions and it definitely makes a big difference, but my wagons have already had some plastic scraped away from the brake blocks and hopper doors, so it might be a combination of those factors.

 

I'm sure there is the optimal drop in wheelset out there.

 

Cameron

[Porcy Mane]

2 hours ago, Covkid said:

Did anyone else notice that track adjacent to where the loco is standing ? 

 

[stationroad]

5 hours ago, drjcontroller said:

 

Here's one taken on the 2nd of September 1988 of 47005 passing Iver with that service.

 

Is the 5th wagon back a 5 rib HTO or something else?

Edited May 26 by stationroad

[Mark Saunders]

3 minutes ago, stationroad said:

Is the 5th wagon back a 5 rib HTO or something else?

 

Its one of the earlier rebodied HTV's with the earlier style body but with the same stanchions as the later ones with two. 

[zr2498]

1 hour ago, Mophead45143 said:

 

I quickly swapped the wheelsets just now with my older Dapol conversions and it definitely makes a big difference, but my wagons have already had some plastic scraped away from the brake blocks and hopper doors, so it might be a combination of those factors.

 

I'm sure there is the optimal drop in wheelset out there.

 

Cameron

Hello again Cameron

Thanks for your advice.

I have just fitted some Alan Gibson wheel sets, and the hoppers are completely free running without any scraping of parts.

It's a start to the upgrade. I did have top hat bearings as well but that will mean getting the reamer out another time.

[MJI]

Aghhh Parkside.

 

I think i only need HTV but 2 and 5 side things.

 

Not sure how many i need.

 

Rebodies are TOPS style only but the peco transfers are useless.

[Zunnan]

The last time I remember seeing one of these in the wild was dumped in the sidings just outside Langley Green in the early to mid '90s. It had most likely been there for a number of years by that point. I'm presuming a cripple from scrap traffic to Handsworth rather than anything to do with Albright and Wilson. Was there trip workings that took in railheads along the South Staffs line like Pensnett which included Handsworth that would convey 21t hoppers other than for scrap traffic? I can't think of any other reason for one to be there so late in the day of vac braked operation.

[Tappa]

Here is one that I don't think Accurascale will do - a rebuilt ex-MoT iron ore hopper. Parkside 4mm body and LNER chassis, Rumney Models springs and axleboxes, Ambis Engineering Axle guards and brake lever, Lanarkshire Model Supplies buffers and Railtec transfers. Based on a Dave Larkin photo. Possibly only ever one converted while in traffic but makes an interesting variation in a rake.

Now if Accurascale did the MoT iron ore hopper.....

 

[zr2498]

I've looked for quite some time to find out at what date the panel markings HOP21 started on the 21t hoppers.

 

 

Could someone advise please?

 

Cheers

[Mophead45143]

11 hours ago, zr2498 said:

I've looked for quite some time to find out at what date the panel markings HOP21 started on the 21t hoppers.

 

 

Could someone advise please?

 

Cheers

 

That was the 1960's style, which was a pre-tops attempt to categorise wagon types better than simply having the number and weights dotted about the body of the wagon as before (Accurascale packs A & B).  Many wagons remained this way throughout the 1970's as TOPs was certainly not an overnight thing.

 

You usually find that Accurascale heritage wagon packs represent a timeline of different styles, pack A being older models and then gradually getting more 'modern' as you go through B, C, D etc.  

 

Cameron

[MJI]

11 hours ago, Tappa said:

Here is one that I don't think Accurascale will do - a rebuilt ex-MoT iron ore hopper. Parkside 4mm body and LNER chassis, Rumney Models springs and axleboxes, Ambis Engineering Axle guards and brake lever, Lanarkshire Model Supplies buffers and Railtec transfers. Based on a Dave Larkin photo. Possibly only ever one converted while in traffic but makes an interesting variation in a rake.

Now if Accurascale did the MoT iron ore hopper.....

 

I need to do two with this chassis type, what bits did you use please?

[Mophead45143]

12 hours ago, MJI said:

Rebodies are TOPS style only but the peco transfers are useless.

 

Not so... many re-bodies were done before TOPs came in, and used the 'HOP 21' or 'HOP 21 VB' codes. Paul Bartlett's website is testimony to that.

 

This is why I'm surprised Accurascale haven't done any of their HTV's like this in the first run.

 

'HOP 21 VB' - in use for stone traffic

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/br21thopperweldrebody

 

'HOP 21 VB HTV' - TOPS code has presumably been added at a later date next to the older code

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/br21thopperweldrebody

 

'HOP 21'

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/br21thopperweldrebody

 

'HOP 21 HTO' - TOPS code has presumably been added at a later date next to the older code

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/br21thopperweldrebody

 

Cameron

 

[45125]

15 minutes ago, Mophead45143 said:

 

Not so... many re-bodies were done before TOPs came in, and used the 'HOP 21' or 'HOP 21 VB' codes. Paul Bartlett's website is testimony to that.

 

This is why I'm surprised Accurascale haven't done any of their HTV's like this in the first run.

 

'HOP 21 VB' - in use for stone traffic

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/br21thopperweldrebody

 

'HOP 21 VB HTV' - TOPS code has presumably been added at a later date next to the older code

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/br21thopperweldrebody

 

'HOP 21'

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/br21thopperweldrebody

 

'HOP 21 HTO' - TOPS code has presumably been added at a later date next to the older code

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/br21thopperweldrebody

 

Cameron

 

The HTO,HTP and HTV codes started appearing on wagon appearing after a visit to certain Wagon repair shops around 74..

[Flying Pig]

14 hours ago, zr2498 said:

I've looked for quite some time to find out at what date the panel markings HOP21 started on the 21t hoppers.

 

 

Could someone advise please?

 

Cheers

 

Boxed lettering from 1964 I believe.

 

https://quornwagonandwagon.co.uk/2020/05/10/featurette-2-br-goods-vehicle-markings/

[zr2498]

38 minutes ago, Flying Pig said:

 

Boxed lettering from 1964 I believe.

 

https://quornwagonandwagon.co.uk/2020/05/10/featurette-2-br-goods-vehicle-markings/

Thanks - good news for Accurascale as the HOP  21 marking just scrapes into the end of era 5 👍