Dapol OO 14/48/5800 discussion

[57xx]

Creating this separate thread for the 1400/4800/5800 being produced by Dapol. The other thread has mainly cantered around discussing 517, so here's the second thread people have been asking for.

 

Discuss away!

Edited May 22 by 57xx

[Captain Kernow]

I will probably feel more comfortable attempting erudite discussion once my Peto book on the subject arrives!

 

Thanks for the new thread, though, definitely a good idea.

 

[The Johnster]

Having only just learned of the existence of Peto books, I am looking forward to an educational experience.

[SteamingWales]

Peto's registers are very good, having bought the Manor guide when researching what Manor I could renumber to what and get tenders right.

 

Its a shame there are only 3 (I believe King, Manor and 14xx) as they are really good books

 

Actual 14/48/58xx discussion. I'm not deciding which I'm going to preorder atm until we see actual models. The renders Dapol have shown look very good but obviously show the "generic" model. Still plenty of time to research and decide though :)

[Miss Prism]

A penny has just dropped, and I have just realised that Dapol's 1401 ("1401 B.R. Black  G  W  R") seems to be an attempt at portraying Titfield's main loco, which was very faded G W R insignia barely showing through the grubby BR black.

 

[57xx]

38 minutes ago, SteamingWales said:

Actual 14/48/58xx discussion. I'm not deciding which I'm going to preorder atm until we see actual models. The renders Dapol have shown look very good but obviously show the "generic" model. Still plenty of time to research and decide though :)

 

Likewise, I'm holding off pre-orders now after a few past disappointments (not Dapol though). Once I can see the actual models and get some initial reports, I'll be deciding which one to get.

[BedeHistory731]

I just hope the paint job is better than the new 43xx from Dapol. The dark grey smokebox and footplate weren't to my taste.

 

I'm surprised that they're not offering 1420 in her preserved and lined condition:

 

 

Maybe that'd be good for a later batch? Also, I just noticed the yellow circle on the cab, which is odd for the class.

[Hal Nail]

7 hours ago, BedeHistory731 said:

I just noticed the yellow circle on the cab, which is odd for the class.

The whole thing is a mish-mash so I'd be surprised if it has enough appeal to warrant them doing it tbh. I've removed a BR early crest from the 7mm one using IPA which would probably be the easiest route to that and maybe 3mm scale GWR transfers.

 

In two runs of the 7mm version its amazing how many combinations they've actually done. BR black, early and late crest all with and without topfeed, Great Western, GWR and monogram (not sure if they have done topfeed variations) and the Titfield celeb.

 

Sods law of course the combination you actually want won't be available but theres always the option of renumbering a 58xx as well!

 

 

Edited May 23 by Hal Nail

[Hal Nail]

12 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

once my Peto book on the subject arrives!

Not withstanding the assertions in the other thread, I couldn't actually find one anywhere. Presumably the handful left all went or am I just doing typical man looking?

 

Edited May 23 by Hal Nail

[melmoth]

14 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

Not withstanding the assertions in the other thread, I couldn't actually find one anywhere. Presumably the handful left all went or am I just doing typical man looking?

 

 

There could have been a bit of hoovering up going on following the Dapol announcement, but the volume on the 14xx/58xx has always been the scarcest of the Peto Registers. There is currently a copy online at £60 plus postage, but you might consider that to be excessive.

[Hal Nail]

1 minute ago, melmoth said:

There is currently a copy online at £60 plus postage, but you might consider that to be excessive.

cheers. Yes actually I did see that but I think I've laboured to all the answers I needed for mine so other than curiosity, I don't need one enough to pay that much!

[Quadrille]

I went through a phase of replacing the traction tyre wheels of the Hornby 14xx and ended up with seven models completed and plenty of bits...a tad expensive upon reflection but it was a challenge that I put down to experience.   Not satisfied with doing the wheels I decided to replace the motor of five of them with a mixture of 3-pole and 5-pole motor variants and was even more pleased...they all crawl at speed step one, especially with Zimo decoders fitted.    That said, I've drawn a line at seven as the cost just didn't warrant it.     I also have one heavily weathered DJ model which now runs fine after adjustment to the pick-ups and a new coreless 0816 motor although I do intend fitting a 1020 coreless motor as there is plenty of space within this model, it's just fiddly.

 

Paying for progress of the newly announced model from Dapol was to be expected but, like many of you, I do feel that anything like even a discounted price of £120.00 is too high a price for such a model.    I wish Dapol every success with this model but, even by the time of its arrival, it IS too pricey...   That said, give me the Dapol Manor EveryTime....NO exceptions!

[Edwardian]

5 hours ago, melmoth said:

...the volume on the 14xx/58xx has always been the scarcest of the Peto Registers. There is currently a copy online at £60 plus postage, but you might consider that to be excessive.

 

In lieu of which I will instead view this thread with interest...

 

[Edwardian]

 

Oh well, back to the 517 thread...

[Captain Kernow]

Postie brought my Peto's Register of the 14XXs etc. today and I have had a quick look through it. It seems a very comprehensive work covering all aspects of the lives of every 48XX/14XX and 58XX.

 

One thing, though is that although it shows dates of boiler changes, it's doesn't state definitively when any given loco acquired a top feed or whether it then lost it again at the boiler change. It simply says whether any given loco had a top feed at sometime during it's life.

 

So, reference to photographs is still as important as ever. Having said that, it's not a criticism of the book, which must still be the definite reference work on the classes.

 

[Hal Nail]

18 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

So, reference to photographs is still as important as ever

It is really handy being able to work out exactly when a change in format between two photos happened though, or how long the arrangement seen in just one photo lasted.

[Captain Kernow]

6 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

It is really handy being able to work out exactly when a change in format between two photos happened though, or how long the arrangement seen in just one photo lasted.

Yes, with reference to photos and the information that is in the book, it should be possible to work out exactly when any given loco acquired a top feed and also when they lost it again, as in the case of 1458.

 

[Craigw]

4833 at an unknown station, date not certain either!  Any ideas?

 

Photographer is unknown, negative from my collection.

 

Everyone wanted a separate thread for the 48XX but nobody wants to talk about them.

Edited May 25 by Craigw

[Captain Kernow]

30 minutes ago, Craigw said:

Everyone wanted a separate thread for the 48XX but nobody wants to talk about them.

I think it's more a case of not wanting the 14XX discussion to get lost in amongst the huge amount of erudite debate on the 517s...

 

There will be more in time, I'm sure, especially when more details are released from Dapol.

 

[tomparryharry]

Having made a 'song & dance' about a sans-topfeed model (DJM) I'm slightly curious about the new model via Dapol. I'm not knocking Dapol; far from it. The 517 is, for me, a no-brainer. However, has DJM 'p!ssed in the pot' with this model?   I accepted the limited capability of the older model as a one-coach locomotive, because that's how the auto tank diagrams were made up. The route to Penygraig is almost a continuous  rising gradient, and the shedmaster at Llantrisant would put a pannier on in poor weather. 

 

Having written this, I'm actually looking forward to seeing the model in the flesh. There's always room for another on the Cowbridge-Pontypridd service...

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I suspect this model will disappoint many, from what information is available. The construction appears to be replete with bad old days technique, when there is a demonstrated superior  construction on sale at present from Bachmann in the form of their 0-4-4T,

 

Make the front end of solid metal as nearly as can be achieved back to the rear coupled axle centre. Behind the rear coupled axle centre, all plastic construction, Gearbox on the rear coupled axle, coreless motor in firebox, lightweight DCC tackle behind the rear coupled axle. This can deliver a model with the centre of mass within the coupled wheelbase, for unconditionally stable traction.

 

Please note I have no dog in this fight, wouldn't buy one of these curious abominations if you paid me. It's simply not wanting yet another design and production slot wasted...

[jamieb]

10 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

I suspect this model will disappoint many....

 

Please note I have no dog in this fight, wouldn't buy one of these curious abominations if you paid me. It's simply not wanting yet another design and production slot wasted...

Then why make negative comments about a model that hasn't even been released when you have no interest in it?

Sometimes I think on here people just stir the pot for the sake of it

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

4 minutes ago, jamieb said:

Then why make negative comments about a model that hasn't even been released when you have no interest in it?

Better to raise an issue before it goes beyond point of no return. Having seen better technique proven it's in all our interests to see it generally adopted. It's an engineering habit.

[tomparryharry]

55 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

I suspect this model will disappoint many, from what information is available. The construction appears to be replete with bad old days technique, when there is a demonstrated superior  construction on sale at present from Bachmann in the form of their 0-4-4T,

 

Make the front end of solid metal as nearly as can be achieved back to the rear coupled axle centre. Behind the rear coupled axle centre, all plastic construction, Gearbox on the rear coupled axle, coreless motor in firebox, lightweight DCC tackle behind the rear coupled axle. This can deliver a model with the centre of mass within the coupled wheelbase, for unconditionally stable traction.

 

Please note I have no dog in this fight, wouldn't buy one of these curious abominations if you paid me. It's simply not wanting yet another design and production slot wasted...

With the greatest respect to you, why have you bothered to write your post? We are, after all, in a consumerist society, where the manufacturer takes the risk, and has control over things like production space, etc. You or I won't lose out on this if it fails to make the grade. 

 

I think the current atmosphere of détente has never been so good, with multiple manufacturers making some very high-class kit. Also, it's the attitude of presentation towards the consumer has changed significantly. No longer:- 'We're number one in the market; take it or not' has gone, pretty much for ever.  Manufacturers are now saying 'what would you like?

 

Dapol always kept the public at arms length. Nowadays, they're talking to people. Personally, I congratulate this. As an alternative view, I'd suggest that the quicker Dapol make the 48-517, then the quicker Dapol will make something else.

 

I've got a list of candidates...    

[Mike_Walker]

I've often thought the best way to tackle an 0-4-2 would be to make it as a solid chassis as would be done with an 0-6-0 but to obviously leave the rear wheels uncoupled and adjusted for their diameter.  That would surely over come the issues of being rear end heavy.  Admittedly, the rear axle wouldn't be pivoted as on the prototype but on the 14xx at least that wouldn't be noticeable as its largely hidden by the outside frame section.