RMweb Premium stivesnick Posted May 22 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 22 The Mayors of Manchester and Liverpool have announced today the creation of a new company to develop a new high(ish) speed route between the two cities running via Warrington Bank Quay (low level) and Manchester Airport to a low level station at Manchester Piccadilly. Cost is £17bn Evening Standard article here: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/greater-manchester-liverpool-steve-rotheram-andy-burnham-government-b1159567.html I can't find anymore details at this time. Regards Nick 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 Well I would imagine they will use the existing alignment via Fiddlers Ferry to Warrington then out via Thelwall after which it will need a new alignment to get to the Airport. Of course it will be the end of the old Thelwall railway bridge as it's not fit , but that would be the most sensible way out of Warrington and into countryside. Of course how this all interfaces with Yorkshire has not been shared, but clearly it has to connect up in some manner to create the Northern Powerhouse across the Pennines. Don't expect to hear much for a couple of months now we are in election frenzy. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted May 22 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 22 Hope they're not going via Chat Moss - that could get very interesting! 2 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 Quote A new line will link Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Piccadilly, via revamped stations at Warrington Bank Quay and Manchester Airport Erm. Seems geography isn't a strong point..... Just electrify between Hunts Cross and Warrington Central. Simple! Jason 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 Just now, Steamport Southport said: Erm. Seems geography isn't a strong point..... Just electrify between Hunts Cross and Warrington Central. Simple! Jason No, that's too straight, they need something with lots of sharp curves. Electrifying the CLC route has to be on the cards but too far away from the airport and any connection from the WCML north of Crewe to create a new but definitely not HS2 mainline to Manchester from Crewe. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted May 22 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 22 12 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said: Hope they're not going via Chat Moss - that could get very interesting! No problem Just lay it on rush matting.🙂 1 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 29 minutes ago, woodenhead said: No, that's too straight, they need something with lots of sharp curves. Electrifying the CLC route has to be on the cards but too far away from the airport and any connection from the WCML north of Crewe to create a new but definitely not HS2 mainline to Manchester from Crewe. What has the Airport go to do with us though? We can already get direct trains to it! Just another Manchester-centric idea put forward by the bloke that lost the leadership bid a few years back and his buddy that has done absolutely nothing for his own area, yet constantly backs his mate. Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D7063 Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 Well in some ways. this could spell the end of a nice cycle route through Lymm and Warburton (The Trans Pennine trail). As I recall the M6 Thelwall Viaduct has meant that the original cutting has been infilled at that point too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpendle Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 So Man Picc, Main Airport, Warrington, Lime street in 25 minutes!! Someone's having a larf aren't they? More likely, Main Airport to Piccadilly and then on to Merseyside. But if they are revamping Liverpool Central why not electrify from Salford all the way along the old L&YR mainline through Atherton, and then run underground to Central once they get on Merseyrail metals. Re-instate the Pemberton loop, let's face it, no-one wants to get off in Wigan 😁, redouble either side of Kirkby. Easy-peasy. John P 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 7 minutes ago, jpendle said: So Man Picc, Main Airport, Warrington, Lime street in 25 minutes!! Someone's having a larf aren't they? More likely, Main Airport to Piccadilly and then on to Merseyside. But if they are revamping Liverpool Central why not electrify from Salford all the way along the old L&YR mainline through Atherton, and then run underground to Central once they get on Merseyrail metals. Re-instate the Pemberton loop, let's face it, no-one wants to get off in Wigan 😁, redouble either side of Kirkby. Easy-peasy. John P I don't think they can build any more third rail. Couldn't even put it in between Kirkby and the new station at Headbolt Lane. So I wouldn't expect any being used elsewhere. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headbolt_Lane_railway_station There is also the problem with the battery Class 777s which keep breaking down. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-68273459 I'm afraid revamping Liverpool Central means they have finally replaced the toilets! Jason 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 Didn't they announce something similar in 1824 ish as that opened in 1830 I expect this new one will be either A) cancelled by the incoming Unofficial Monster Loonies government after the "Independence Day" election, or B cancelled by the following government after the October election, or C partly opened by 2040 . 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium stivesnick Posted May 23 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted May 23 There have been plans for some time to upgrade Liverpool Central Station and the large numbers that interchange between the two routes at that station. I suspect this plan is seperate from the new high speed route unless there is no enough space at Lime Street (high level) for any additional trains so there is a need to provide extra platforms somewhere. New underground platforms at Lime Street plus terminal platforms at Liverpool Central would be an ideal transport solution but very expensive, say £500m for each station plus a £1bn for the tunnels would be a good starting point. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mol_PMB Posted May 23 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 23 Lime Street had a quite extensive rebuild in the last few years to squeeze in one more platform. I don't think there's room for any more platforms long enough to be useful. Both Lime Street and Central sites are predominantly below street level and tightly constrained by surrounding buildings so it's tricky, but there is some space at the former Central CLC mainly used for staff parking etc. There might be scope to redevelop this area? https://www.google.com/maps/@53.403971,-2.9783996,204m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu My understanding is that the intended route is broadly similar to that proposed for NPR and does run Liverpool - Warrington BQ - Lymm(ish) - Airport - Piccadilly. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hodgson Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 10 hours ago, jpendle said: Re-instate the Pemberton loop, let's face it, no-one wants to get off in Wigan 😁 My dad used to say the women in Wigan were all built like full-backs. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 The Pemberton loop line is mostly now a new dual carriageway A49 link road. And good luck getting a high speed line through Warrington Bank Quay low level (worked in Warrington for 20 years on the gas and know the area, AND it's flooding problems at Sankey Bridges well. (The lower east / west line below) High speed line here ? https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/uk-news/dramatic-pictures-show-people-being-19670141 Crazy idea. Brit15 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 @APOLLO Whilst I agree using the words 'high speed' is daft, I think the only sensible route through Warrington from Liverpool is the Fiddlers Ferry route at least as far as Thelwall. The alignment is all clear, still in use in some parts and it has the least impact on the inhabitants of Warrington, but high speed around the station it aint - but they will be slowing anyway to stop so perhaps not really not an issue. The last thing anyone wants is something massively disruptive that will blight properties for years to come whilst they argue over a new route, when a perfectly good alignment exists. Sensible approach over hyperbole is needed. After that, it looks like the handsacre-Crewe abandonment will not pass before the end of Parliament, that leaves the next administration to make some decisions about the most definitely not HS2 extension to Manchester which should really join the 'high speed' route from Liverpool to form whatever the next extension becomes known as. 6 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 2 hours ago, Mol_PMB said: Lime Street had a quite extensive rebuild in the last few years to squeeze in one more platform. I don't think there's room for any more platforms long enough to be useful. Both Lime Street and Central sites are predominantly below street level and tightly constrained by surrounding buildings so it's tricky, but there is some space at the former Central CLC mainly used for staff parking etc. There might be scope to redevelop this area? https://www.google.com/maps/@53.403971,-2.9783996,204m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu My understanding is that the intended route is broadly similar to that proposed for NPR and does run Liverpool - Warrington BQ - Lymm(ish) - Airport - Piccadilly. Already earmarked for redevelopment I'm afraid. But that's just as pie in the sky as this idea. Supposed to be more unwanted skyscrapers! Just running trains at full capacity would be a start. Still not seen one of these new trains with the full 8 cars. Even then the capacity would probably be lower than the six cars of a pair of 507/508s.... Add this to the other idea they had of trams that don't need track or external electric supplies. What are they called again? Buses... Jason 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
e30ftw Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 Maybe maglev is the answer on elevated track, if only we had the money and engineering excellence. The low level line at Warrington is a problem but the site is partially disused now as Unilever have left so it could be demolished and re aligned. Must have been a bit off hype with the local council hoping on the news about a possible HS3 on the freight only line that currently has a speed of 40mph dropping to 20 through the town center https://www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/news/24338720.revamped-bank-quay-train-station-is-going-happen-says-metro-mayor/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted May 23 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 23 12 minutes ago, woodenhead said: After that, it looks like the handsacre-Crewe abandonment will not pass before the end of Parliament, With dissolution on the 30th May that, IMHO, is a dead cert. They break up for Whitsun today and return is scheduled for after dissolution. Effectively this Government term has now ended. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 2 minutes ago, melmerby said: With dissolution on the 30th May that, IMHO, is a dead cert. They break up for Whitsun today and return is scheduled for after dissolution. Effectively this Government term has now ended. Much of this is "devolved" though and both of the mayors have only just won so they'll be in power for the next four years*. *Unless either of them thinks that a cushy Government jobs in on the cards and resigns to get a bit of that.... Jason 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted May 23 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 23 11 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said: Much of this is "devolved" though and both of the mayors have only just won so they'll be in power for the next four years*. Doesn't affect the HS2 link Handsacre - Crewe and relevant legislation safeguarding the route. So we could still get a "Not HS2" railway along that bit, bypassing the bottlenecks. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted May 23 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 23 12 hours ago, jpendle said: let's face it, no-one wants to get off in Wigan 😁 , but a lot of people want to get on! Mike. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom D Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 I seem to remember reading an article on one of the potential Terminus for Liverpool (HS2), being in the area between Kirkdale & Sandhills, at the time, it made a lot of sense, at least for the land availability, and utilising the existing rail network in the area. The downside to this option, was the distance away from the City centre. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted May 23 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 23 (edited) On 23/05/2024 at 11:54, melmerby said: With dissolution on the 30th May that, IMHO, is a dead cert. They break up for Whitsun today and return is scheduled for after dissolution. Effectively this Government term has now ended. Even the Parliament website I looked at had got it wrong. They had the dissolution date as the 30th May but still had Whitsun Recess shown 23rd May - 3rd June Howvere there will not now be a Whitsun recess and there will be 5 more days of business. EDIT My original timetable was correct. There was incorrect info in the media, that said 5 more days of legislative time. Today is the last day any bills can be passed. Edited May 24 by melmerby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 56 minutes ago, melmerby said: Doesn't affect the HS2 link Handsacre - Crewe and relevant legislation safeguarding the route. So we could still get a "Not HS2" railway along that bit, bypassing the bottlenecks. Not what the thread is about though. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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