Absolute Aspects DCC signal control

[yarstoft]

Hi all. Just bought some excellent Absolute Aspects (AA) signals. Now the difficult bit. Any recommendations for decoders? Seems to be a few that may work but technical knowledge not my strong point! Apologies if answers in older threads but can't see conclusive ones for me to make informed purchase. Have 5 signals; 1xRG, 2xRG plus feather, 1xRY plus feather plus Position Light and 1xRY plus 2 feathers and Position Light. And before anyone says "why didn't you use Brand x that's plug and play"...I was looking for specific signal combinations and AA look the real business! Thanks in advance.

[WIMorrison]

Why not ask AA what decoder they recommend for the signals you purchased? 

[4firstimes]

I find the following module signalist SC1, the best module to operate Absolute Aspect and other brands of model signals. I understand supplies have been difficult to obtain, programming the module to operate the type of signal is easy, and once you get your head around the module . The  spare terminals can be programmed to different types of signals, also if you wanting to go down the route of automation the manual outlines idea for both three and four aspect signals , and aspects with special effects.

Have a read of the manual to match the signals you have.
 

http://signalist.co.uk/SC1.html

Edited May 15 by 4firstimes

[jpendle]

Hi,

 

I have one AA 4 aspect signal, I'm a cautious sort, and they are pricy. 🙂

 

I looked at various alternative decoders and settled on the Yamorc YD8116, you can connect as many of its outputs as you like to a single signal.

 

Its outputs match the polarity of the AA N Gauge signals, and they provide an adaptor board to switch the polarity of the outputs if you need to.

 

I downloaded the Yamorc config software to my laptop and was able to get Red, Yellow, Double Yellow, Flashing Double Yellow, and Green working in less than an hour with my Z21 command station.

 

Once I've saved my pennies then I'll be after more AA signals and Yamorc decoders.

 

Also AA said that they'll custom manufacture signals if you send then a photo of what you want.

 

Regards,

 

John P

Edited May 15 by jpendle
Extra stuff

[yarstoft]

2 hours ago, jpendle said:

Hi,

 

I have one AA 4 aspect signal, I'm a cautious sort, and they are pricy. 🙂

 

I looked at various alternative decoders and settled on the Yamorc YD8116, you can connect as many of its outputs as you like to a single signal.

 

Its outputs match the polarity of the AA N Gauge signals, and they provide an adaptor board to switch the polarity of the outputs if you need to.

 

I downloaded the Yamorc config software to my laptop and was able to get Red, Yellow, Double Yellow, Flashing Double Yellow, and Green working in less than an hour with my Z21 command station.

 

Once I've saved my pennies then I'll be after more AA signals and Yamorc decoders.

 

Also AA said that they'll custom manufacture signals if you send then a photo of what you want.

 

Regards,

 

John P

Thanks John

 

I've read about the YD8116 and that looks a good rival to the SC1 and looks like you can run more than one signal off it. 

Edited May 15 by yarstoft

[jpendle]

1 hour ago, yarstoft said:

I've read about the YD8116 and that looks a good rival to the SC1 and looks like you can run more than one signal off it. 

It'll run eight 2 aspects, five 3 aspects, four 4 aspects, etc.

 

Regards,

 

John P

[Suzie]

I think that you will find that the SC1 will be the best bet with so many signals having feathers, it will handle up to three feathers on a mast using the standard configurations. If Absolute Aspects don't have any I understand that CoastalDCC have them in stock.

 

If using the SC1 just ensure that the feather LEDs are in parallel and not in series if there is more than one LED in the feathers.

[RFS]

I purchased an Absolute Aspects OO gauge signal and a YD8116 to operate, the start of converting some my ancient Berko/Eckon ones. However, the AA signal is common negative whereas the YD8116 is common positive so I was unable to configure it. I know you can get polarity converters but they are around £15 a pair plus addtional wiring needed. 

 

I bought the YD8116 from Coastal DCC. They've agreed to take that back and I am going to order SC1s from them instead. SC1s support both positive and negative via CV change. 

[WIMorrison]

I think that the SC1 also uses DCCExt - does your command station provide DCCExt to operate signals?

I would check that the SC1 will allow you to program the signals with your command station.

[RFS]

9 hours ago, WIMorrison said:

I think that the SC1 also uses DCCExt - does your command station provide DCCExt to operate signals?

I would check that the SC1 will allow you to program the signals with your command station.

 

The SC1 uses both methods but I will not be using DCCExt. All my signals are either 2-aspect or 3-aspect, some with a single feather. I currently operate these with Lenz LS150s usung self-built latching relay boards. This kit was surplus after I converted to Tortoise point motors many years ago, with the relay boards having been made up to do frog polarity switching. Looking to replace these with something more modern and to add to my signals. 

 

For example, a single SC1 will operate two 3-aspect signals with a single feather. The instructions show how to define this to Traincontroller, which is basically identical to how I do it now with the LS150s.  The feather has its own address so is easy to assign in TC as the signals are enabled when routes are set. (With the LS150s the feather is always set when the signal is on, but is routed via the spare change-over switch on the Tortoise motor that controls the diverging route). Although the YD8116 will operate 4 such signals it's twice the price.  Unlike the YD8116, the SC1 also doesn't need its own power supply, presumably because it's not operating turnouts. 

[WIMorrison]

59 minutes ago, RFS said:

Although the YD8116 will operate 4 such signals it's twice the price

 

I think when you compare them on a like for like basis the Harman SC1 is actually much more than the YD8116 price because the YD8116 can handle multiple signals not just the one, and spare outputs can be configured to your choice you want, lamps, signals, turnouts, switches. Also the YD8116 could be operated from the DCC track signal however a separate supply is recommended because so many people just hang more and more stuff onto the DCC signal without consideration of the available power supply and when it all falls over the command station is never to blame, always the ancillary products😉

 

For high power turnout motors e.g. Peco, Seep and some others that need CDUs there is a specific YD8044 (4 motors) or YD8088 (8 motors) 

[RFS]

5 hours ago, WIMorrison said:

 

I think when you compare them on a like for like basis the Harman SC1 is actually much more than the YD8116 price because the YD8116 can handle multiple signals not just the one, and spare outputs can be configured to your choice you want, lamps, signals, turnouts, switches. Also the YD8116 could be operated from the DCC track signal however a separate supply is recommended because so many people just hang more and more stuff onto the DCC signal without consideration of the available power supply and when it all falls over the command station is never to blame, always the ancillary products😉

 

For high power turnout motors e.g. Peco, Seep and some others that need CDUs there is a specific YD8044 (4 motors) or YD8088 (8 motors) 

 

Indeed the YD8116 is a much more sophisticated product than the Harman SC1. But then I just don't need all that sophistication as I have only simple needs. I'm upgrading my signals, and when I've finished, all will be 3-aspect with or without a single feather. With the SC1 it appears really easy. You just set the base address in the normal way and it allocates 8 consecutive addresses like the YD8116 does. Then all I have to do is set CV38=9 and it sets the following configuration:

 

 

Two consecutive addresses for the red/yellow/green aspects as per standard practice, plus a third address for the feather if present. So very easy to set up and manage in Traincontroller. But I just couldn't work out from the complexity of the YD8116 how to do that and set them up in TC.

 

In the end the killer was that the YD8116 requires common positive whereas all UK signals I'm using (Eckon, Berko, Absolute Aspects) are common negative. It would therefore require purchasing two pairs of YD6942 converters which adds another £30 to the cost of each YD8116, plus the need for additional wiring. The SC1 allows you to swap individual outputs between positive and negative via CV change, and I'm therefore surprised the YD8116 doesn't have this feature. 

 

Edited July 24 by RFS

[two tone green]

Another option. 

Can cope with common positive & negative signals. 
 

https://www.ldt-infocenter.com/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=en:ls-dec-br

[Andymsa]

5 hours ago, RFS said:

 

Indeed the YD8116 is a much more sophisticated product than the Harman SC1. But then I just don't need all that sophistication as I have only simple needs. I'm upgrading my signals, and when I've finished, all will be 3-aspect with or without a single feather. With the SC1 it appears really easy. You just set the base address in the normal way and it allocates 8 consecutive addresses like the YD8116 does. Then all I have to do is set CV38=9 and it sets the following configuration:

 

 

Two consecutive addresses for the red/yellow/green aspects as per standard practice, plus a third address for the feather if present. So very easy to set up and manage in Traincontroller. But I just couldn't work out from the complexity of the YD8116 how to do that and set them up in TC.

 

In the end the killer was that the YD8116 requires common positive whereas all UK signals I'm using (Eckon, Berko, Absolute Aspects) are common negative. It would therefore require purchasing two pairs of YD6942 converters which adds another £30 to the cost of each YD8116, plus the need for additional wiring. The SC1 allows you to swap individual outputs between positive and negative via CV change, and I'm therefore surprised the YD8116 doesn't have this feature. 

 

I would be intrested in the link for these with another project I’m working on

 

ps are they slow change between aspects 

Edited July 24 by Andymsa

[RFS]

1 hour ago, Andymsa said:

I would be intrested in the link for these with another project I’m working on

 

ps are they slow change between aspects 

 

SC1 manual can be downloaded from their website.  It's in the downloads section. 

 

Don't know whether they are slow-change or not, but that functionality might be in the signal itself. 

[Andymsa]

1 hour ago, RFS said:

 

SC1 manual can be downloaded from their website.  It's in the downloads section. 

 

Don't know whether they are slow-change or not, but that functionality might be in the signal itself. 

thanks

 

it should be in the sc1 

[RFS]

Just an update to say the first of my AA signals has been set up and working fine.  In the end it was very easy using the Signalist SC1. I'm installing mainly 3-aspect signals, some with a single feather and some without. All I need to do to configure the SC1 is to set CV39=9 which provides for two signals each with 3 DCC addresses: 1-2 for the aspects and 3 for the feather (4-6 for the second signal). When defining the 3-aspect signal to Traincontroller, its defaults for the aspects are not the same as required by SC1 so they have to be toggled to look like this:

 

 

Setting up the feather in TC to work automaticaslly was also easy. Just define a separate 2-aspect signal whose trigger is that the main signal aspect is not red and the turnout for the diverging route is set accordingly. From then it is entirely automatic even if the signal is set manually. The feather will not come on if the signal is red, but I don't whether it is the AA signal or the SC1 that enforces this. 

 

Final issue was with the Z21. When powering on, the signal flashes red briefly and then goes dark. I understand this is because the Z21 is sending a decoder reset, so you need to set the default aspect in the SC1 so that at power on of the Z21 it shows red. This means setting CV37 to 128 if you have one signal, 136 for 2 and 170 for 4 2-aspects.

 

[WIMorrison]

4 minutes ago, RFS said:

I understand this is because the Z21 is sending a decoder reset,

 

This was an issue with their stuff a few years ago and supposedly they had cured it, after blaming the Z21 for a long time :( 

[Signalist]

On 29/07/2024 at 11:08, RFS said:

The feather will not come on if the signal is red, but I don't whether it is the AA signal or the SC1 that enforces this. 

 

The SC1 enforces this. It does not matter what the third address is set to when the signal is red - the feather will be extinguished.

 

On 29/07/2024 at 11:08, RFS said:

Final issue was with the Z21. When powering on, the signal flashes red briefly and then goes dark. I understand this is because the Z21 is sending a decoder reset, so you need to set the default aspect in the SC1 so that at power on of the Z21 it shows red. This means setting CV37 to 128 if you have one signal, 136 for 2 and 170 for 4 2-aspects.

 

Yes, when powered on the SC1 will show whatever aspect it was showing when powered off, so a minor glitch will not change the aspect, but when the command station sends a decoder reset packet as many do at power up and after an emergency stop condition the SC1 will do as the NMRA spec requires and load the default aspect (in this case the value loaded in to CV37).