Edwinstowe Station... LNER 1930's (ex-LD&ECR, ex-GCR)

[PMP]

19 hours ago, gingerangles said:

Right folks... Private Owner Wagons...

 

Gonna need 100's of em... 

 

Had a quick search on here for some info... I thought there was bound to be a thread or several on here with em in.  Am I missing something?

 

I understand there were these main varieties... those manufactured by Gloucester, RCH, Wheeler & Gregory and Hurst Nelson.  Would that be fair to say?  

 

Are there any kit recommendations folks would give?  

There’s a good selection of kits and RTR available for your core 30’s era.

https://slatersplastikard.com/wagons/4mmWagons.php
Many of these will be appropriate.

 

Peco now own/stock the Parkside range, and there’s plenty in there. Some kits are early tooling and a bit harder work but overall good quality

https://peco-uk.com/collections/parkside-models

 

Cambrian are also a good selection of models, lihttps://www.cambrianmodelrail.co.uk/store/4mm-Wagon-Kits-c25015108

 

Quite a lot of the common PO wagons are now available RTR, at recommended retail price roughly double the cost of a kit. However always worth checking at shows and swap meets as the RTR can be quite a bit less than RRP.

 

Transfers for kits and re-liveries are available from https://www.powsides.co.uk with lots of choices. 

 

 

In the Hornby and Dapol ranges there is some old innacurate tooling to avoid, and they are the PO’s with 10ft wheelbases. 

 

More to follow…

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 22 by PMP

[Orion]

One way to provide variety is to paint different liveries on each side of the wagon - an old trick. It works well as long as the base colour is the same.

[gingerangles]

23 hours ago, 31A said:

RCH weren’t a maker.  The initials RCH stood for Railway Clearing House, which was an organisation that dealt with all sorts of matters that affected all the railway companies.  In this context, they drew up specifications for Private Owner Wagons which the wagon builders followed, to ensure things like wheels, brakes etc were to an acceptable standard and also so that standard components were used so that wagons could be repaired anywhere in the country.

 

Another big wagon builder was Charles Roberts from Horbury near Wakefield.  I haven’t heard of Wheeler & Gregory before!

 

I should think you might do well to look at owners whose wagons tended to turn up in your part of the world, by looking at pictures of coal trains.  The bigger owners might well have fleets of wagons built by several different builders.  In the LDECR area I should think they would be mostly either wagons belonging to the local colliery owners, or those belonging to coal merchants who bought coal from mines in the area.  Bearing in mind a lot of the coal traffic went down the GN& GE Joint Line through Lincoln to Whitemoor (March) and from there to London and East Anglia, maybe coal merchants from those areas might be fairly common. 
 

 

Nice one, thanks @31A, I'd obviously got mixed up there.  So when things are referred to as RCH then they are likely std/pattern parts compliant with RCH requirements.  Got it.

I've already a few contenders for names I need - like you say we plenty of scope in relation to local coal and industry but what I am aiming to get my head round is the correct types/manufacturers and how to identify them.  For example "Bolsover"... I can get Bolsover wagons off the shelf but they are all the later steel version, what I need to do is be able to identify the wagons used at the time - the below pic for example:

 

Obviously they are a 7 plank.  They appear to be a timber underframe (?) fluted buffers with the shorter flute at the top.  side door, no end doors (?) 

But what are they?  I've not really got an eye for this yet so 'they all look the same' to me 😂

There are some nice 6 plank (?) NE wagons in the background I see which I already have some kits for, they seem to have much chunkier loads - I presume this might be 'loco coal'?

Edited August 23 by gingerangles

[gingerangles]

2 hours ago, PMP said:

There’s a good selection of kits and RTR available for your core 30’s era.

https://slatersplastikard.com/wagons/4mmWagons.php
Many of these will be appropriate.

 

Peco now own/stock the Parkside range, and there’s plenty in there. Some kits are early tooling and a bit harder work but overall good quality

https://peco-uk.com/collections/parkside-models

 

Cambrian are also a good selection of models, lihttps://www.cambrianmodelrail.co.uk/store/4mm-Wagon-Kits-c25015108

 

Quite a lot of the common PO wagons are now available RTR, at recommended retail price roughly double the cost of a kit. However always worth checking at shows and swap meets as the RTR can be quite a bit less than RRP.

 

Transfers for kits and re-liveries are available from https://www.powsides.co.uk with lots of choices. 

 

 

In the Hornby and Dapol ranges there is some old innacurate tooling to avoid, and they are the PO’s with 10ft wheelbases. 

 

More to follow…

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks @PMP

 

Looking forward to the rest of the list 😀

I've built a Slaters wagon so far - even sat here now I dont know which 😂
I've also built a peco bulk grain wagon, which was  OK, and I have an LNER open wagon kit of theirs still to have a go at.
I've also acquired some 3 aitch LNER & MR std wagon kits that arent bad.

I got a Dapol RTR 6 plank I think it is which is OK, but then I got a Dapol "Hillhead" RTR and its got a right limp 😂  
I've 2 x "Warrener" Mainline wagons, obviously quite old but TBH they are pretty decent, especially with metal wheels put in em but other mainline ones I've seen dont seem to look as good.

 

In short I'm happy to go kits... look forward to building and learning skills for that - just need to know how to identify.

 

For instance - on the slaters website: 

I could potentially pick any of the green ones...

 

[90164]

5 hours ago, gingerangles said:

 

Nice one, that's @31A, I'd obviously got mixed up there.  So when things are referred to as RCH then they are likely std/pattern parts compliant with RCH requirements.  Got it.

I've already a few contenders for names I need - like you say we plenty of scope in relation to local coal and industry but what I am aiming to get my head round is the correct types/manufacturers and how to identify them.  For example "Bolsover"... I can get Bolsover wagons off the shelf but they are all the later steel version, what i need to do is be able to identify the wagons used at the time - the below pic for example:

 

Obviously they are a 7 plank.  They appear to be a timber underframe (?) fluted buffers with the shorter flute at the top.  side door, no end doors (?) 

But what are they?  I've not really got an eye for this yet so 'they all look the same' to me 😂

There are some nice 6 plank (?) NE wagons in the background I see which I already have some kits for, they seem to have much chunkier loads - I presume this might be 'loco coal'?

You're actually looking at the end door of the nearest Bolsover wagon, and the one next to it has the end door on the other end. One clue is the wrap round steel plate you can see at one end of the side.

[gingerangles]

4 hours ago, 90164 said:

You're actually looking at the end door of the nearest Bolsover wagon, and the one next to it has the end door on the other end. One clue is the wrap round steel plate you can see at one end of the side.

 

Ah I see... the lack of a plate indicating an opening 👍 Thanks @90164

 

Any idea what the wagon itself is? Any chance it's a Charles Roberts or RCH versions on the slaters kit list?

[90164]

18 hours ago, gingerangles said:

 

Ah I see... the lack of a plate indicating an opening 👍 Thanks @90164

 

Any idea what the wagon itself is? Any chance it's a Charles Roberts or RCH versions on the slaters kit list?

Sorry, can't help you there. There may be more than one make of wagon as the livery on the nearest two is slightly different to the other four. The NE wagons in the background have a white diagonal stripe which, I assume, indicates the end with the opening door. I don't know when that became more widespread but it certainly was in BR days.

[gingerangles]

Morning fine folk!

 

Hoping you've lots of modelling fun planned over the BH weekend!?

 

Any ongoing identification of POW's would be great / most appreciated... in the meantime I'm back giving consideration to my layout's point rodding.

 

I've extended the mock up I'd made by a length of platicard.  Really pleased with the overall affect.  I've joined the rods at one of the chairs and soldered the the elements / 7 parts together.  the rest of the rods I've just dropped a bit of super glue on apart from at the ends for now where I will need to cut/join at a chair.

 

 

I think I have gone about as far as I can before I need to consider compensators - these runs down the sides of the platform must have had them somewhere, so I hunted through my reference material.  Luckily I managed to find the following pic with what I think is a compensator on the far right...

 

 

Trawling through my other books I've found a better shot of what I think is the same thing on the LDECR line...

 

 

Unfortunately my new GNR signalling book is a little lacking when it comes to point rodding and the "Point Rodding - Prototype & Planning Notes for Modellers" doesn't detail anything that sticks up from the rods like the above does.

I've had a quick google and cant find anything 'GNR Point Rodding Compensators' or 'Vertical Point Rodding Compensators'.

 

Can anyone help me out here: (i) are these compensators & (ii) any better shots of them anywhere?

 

On another note off to Digitrains later 👏👏👏, after I've done my chores 😂

[31A]

They do look like compensators.  I’m sure I’ve seen a picture of that type but am unable to check reference books at the moment.  Should be able to have a look in a few days time …. 

[gingerangles]

On 22/08/2024 at 12:57, Orion said:

One way to provide variety is to paint different liveries on each side of the wagon - an old trick. It works well as long as the base colour is the same.

Ah, neat trick 👌  like it!

[gingerangles]

2 hours ago, 31A said:

They do look like compensators.  I’m sure I’ve seen a picture of that type but am unable to check reference books at the moment.  Should be able to have a look in a few days time …. 

 

Thank you mate 👍 

[gingerangles]

Platforming...

 

[gingerangles]

Might be a bit of this happening in the background mind...

 

 

 

[gingerangles]

So if for no other reason than to document what I have done for myself I thought I'd add a post regarding platform edge production.

 

I started out creating myself brick background colours in MS paint.  I've produced both red and blue brick colourations.  I then added English bond brickwork patterns over the top using autocad using which I can print sheets of brickwork.  I'll attempt to attached the file to the post in case anyone can make use of them, bricks should be 3mm x 1mm when printed 100%

 

These patterns can then be printed directly onto card.

 

I then cut the sheets into appropriate sized strips - the first the full depth of the platform - I cut twice as many as I needed and glued two together to double up the thickness and stager the joints in the card.  Edges were coloured with a marker pen to hide the white edge of the cut card.

This is then repeated using different depths, in my case 5 bricks, 4 bricks, 3 & 2 bricks wide, doubled up and glued together to create the corbel for the platform edge.  I found doing the corbel section separately and gluing it to the edge when already mounted to the platform timber was best.  Altogether the edges are 10 sheets thick and about 5mm.

 

Before fitting any of the sections to the layout I also gave them a spray of printed ink fixing spray in a hope to set the ink and prevent running when they are vanished / painted / ballasted up to.

 

Quite pleased with the effect - I intend to give it all a coat of ultra matt varnish now installed completely then carry on with painting and ballasting.

 

 

Edited August 25 by gingerangles

[gingerangles]

The completed article still to be varnished:

 

 

[gingerangles]

The brickwork file:

 

Edwinstowe Blue Brick English Bond A3.pdf

[gingerangles]

Does anyone happen to have the book "The Big Four in Colour"?

[micklner]

yes

[gingerangles]

7 hours ago, micklner said:

yes

 

Any chance you can have a look at page 81 for me? I've been directed there in the search for the LNER brown used on buildings.

[micklner]

It is a photo of a Signal Box . Very pale Cream on windows and Roof Boards,  and Chocolate mid Brown on the exterior staircase.This was the early LNER livery. It was later changed to a Mid Apple Green and a darker more Yellow / Cream shades.

Edited August 26 by micklner

[gingerangles]

1 hour ago, micklner said:

It is a photo of a Signal Box . Very pale Cream on windows and Roof Boards,  and Chocolate mid Brown on the exterior staircase.This was the early LNER livery. It was later changed to a Mid Apple Green and a darker more Yellow / Cream shades.

 

Brill... any chance of a pic? It's the colour of the creams and browns I'm after.

[Worsdell forever]

Just below the map.

 

http://disused-stations.org.uk/k/kirbymoorside/index.shtml

[micklner]

[gingerangles]

Perfect, thank you @Worsdell forever & @micklner 👍

[Worsdell forever]

There's this too,

 

http://www.stationcolours.info/london-north-eastern-railway/

 

Vallejo 70872 Chocolate brown and 70916 Sand yellow could be good matches, sand yellow might be a bit dark, not sure.