Edwinstowe Station... LNER 1930's (ex-LD&ECR, ex-GCR)

[gingerangles]

47 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

Is it the same as one of the versions posted here?

 

Yeah the bottom picture of that post but... it's rubbish resolution and does need tweaking so here goes... back to the drawing board!

 

[HEATH STATION]

Hello ginger angles,

reading your queries on GC 04's etc I have sent you a pm.

Dave

[gingerangles]

Well my remained SB diagram is certainly bigger... not sure if I'm 100% on it... there is something not quite right about it.

 

Might have made the track work lines a little thick maybe. Or the colours are off. 🤔

 

Also on this version I've decided to renumber everything as it would make sense to do so... bring 7 back over to the right and use the spare for the FPL... that way all 44 levers are in use. Going to give it some looking over over the next couple of days and see how I feel about it all.

 

 

 

Edited Friday at 20:03 by gingerangles

[gingerangles]

Bit large maybe in actual fact...

 

 

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, gingerangles said:

Bit large maybe in actual fact...

 

 

If that's where it's going, I'd probably make it larger still.

 

Mr Magoo.

[gingerangles]

16 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

If that's where it's going, I'd probably make it larger still.

 

Mr Magoo.

 

You reckon mate? Maybe so... the lettering / numbers and signal symbols definately need to be bigger.

I'm not sure if I'm just going to have it as a diagram or actually wire this one up with lights yet.

[gingerangles]

Couple of other little wins tonight despite not really achieving much...

 

Tested out new ballast vacuum... really impressed with that:

 

 

Fitted new decoder to a M7 I'd got. Bought this as a non-runner with the intention of butchering it into a LDECR Class B. But... its too nice 😂

So I've fixed it and will move it on.

 

 

 

And in what I do think is quite a milestone I've managed to get an encoder sending DCC signals to a point motor controlled by an analogue switch 😎

I'm planning to have 2 rotary switches for the fiddle yard and this is a potential key to achieving that whilst also keeping everything DCC in terms of point motors.

 

 

Almost forgot...

 

Thought I'd share my little test rig I'm building... just plastic case I'd had kicking about for years, foam, bits of wood and length of track, got NCE connections fitted and a decoder tester, banana plugs for track power and a USB interface so the whole thing can be plugged into my layout and a laptop for either programming or JMRI control.  Lovely.

 

 

Edited Friday at 22:26 by gingerangles

[5BarVT]

2 hours ago, gingerangles said:

Well my remained SB diagram is certainly bigger... not sure if I'm 100% on it... there is something not quite right about it.

 

Might have made the track work lines a little thick maybe. Or the colours are off. 🤔

Background may be a little dark - the original will be well yellowed with age and probably started off lighter or even white.

You might be right about the line width.  The title is definitely too small for the line width.

The lettering is too small (it was intended to be read from a reasonable distance) - compare the line width with the track names on the original.

Note on the original that the track lines have an outline - it will have been drawn in outline (or printed from a blue print) in black and then hand coloured.  The point number outlines are too thick - they are the same width as the track outlines.  That then allows the point numbers to be larger- note how they are marginally wider than the track.

The hand colouring doesn’t look quite as strong as your colours: can you lighten them and possibly add some dappling too.

 

I think the main thing that is making you think it looks wrong is the print sizes.  Start by increasing their size and see if that sorts it.

 

HTH

Paul.

[gingerangles]

2 minutes ago, 5BarVT said:

Background may be a little dark - the original will be well yellowed with age and probably started off lighter or even white.

You might be right about the line width.  The title is definitely too small for the line width.

The lettering is too small (it was intended to be read from a reasonable distance) - compare the line width with the track names on the original.

Note on the original that the track lines have an outline - it will have been drawn in outline (or printed from a blue print) in black and then hand coloured.  The point number outlines are too thick - they are the same width as the track outlines.  That then allows the point numbers to be larger- note how they are marginally wider than the track.

The hand colouring doesn’t look quite as strong as your colours: can you lighten them and possibly add some dappling too.

 

I think the main thing that is making you think it looks wrong is the print sizes.  Start by increasing their size and see if that sorts it.

 

HTH

Paul.

 

Thanks for th input Paul... I think you're right... less artificial aging and sort the line widths and font sizes out 👍

 

Pretty sure I saved the file this time so I can do that 😂

[St Enodoc]

20 minutes ago, gingerangles said:

And in what I do think is quite a milestone I've managed to get an encoder sending DCC signals to a point motor controlled by an analogue switch 😎

I'm planning to have 2 rotary switches for the fiddle yard and this is a potential key to achieving that whilst also keeping everything DCC in terms of point motors.

As you're using NCE, have you thought about a Mini Panel for route setting in the fiddle yard? Usual discalimer.

[gingerangles]

2 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

As you're using NCE, have you thought about a Mini Panel for route setting in the fiddle yard? Usual discalimer.

One of these...?

 

 

Right with you there buddy

👌

[St Enodoc]

6 minutes ago, gingerangles said:

One of these...?

 

 

Right with you there buddy

👌

Oops! I was so focused on the box I missed it!

[gingerangles]

On the test rig I do need a little help if anyone can shed some light on what might be going on...

 

I have the whole thing powered by the power supply that came with the NCE controller as you'd expect.

This plugs into a socket on the outside of the case and the internal cabling takes the power to the facia panel and the DCC side all works fine.

 

I have also installed a gaugemaster controller socket and have a gaugemaster handheld controller in order to also be able to test DC.  

The power in is actually split between the NCE board and the gaugemaster socket, the track feeds from both go to a DPDT, the central connections of which are connected to the track and other track outputs (to the decoder tester and some banana plug sockets).

 

Everything is powered when the rig is plugged in but the switch obviously controls which system connects to the track etc.

 

I seem to be having some issues with the DC side however and I am wondering...

 

Q - is the NCE power supply is capable of running DC? 

 

I'd got an old Hornby DC controller and was going to use this for the DC side originally but then happened upon the gaugemaster controller which I thought was a neater solution but the point is the Hornby controller power supply does kick out a higher voltage.  I would have thought the NCE system voltage was sufficient though, certainly for testing in these circumstances.

[St Enodoc]

40 minutes ago, gingerangles said:

On the test rig I do need a little help if anyone can shed some light on what might be going on...

 

I have the whole thing powered by the power supply that came with the NCE controller as you'd expect.

This plugs into a socket on the outside of the case and the internal cabling takes the power to the facia panel and the DCC side all works fine.

 

I have also installed a gaugemaster controller socket and have a gaugemaster handheld controller in order to also be able to test DC.  

The power in is actually split between the NCE board and the gaugemaster socket, the track feeds from both go to a DPDT, the central connections of which are connected to the track and other track outputs (to the decoder tester and some banana plug sockets).

 

Everything is powered when the rig is plugged in but the switch obviously controls which system connects to the track etc.

 

I seem to be having some issues with the DC side however and I am wondering...

 

Q - is the NCE power supply is capable of running DC? 

 

I'd got an old Hornby DC controller and was going to use this for the DC side originally but then happened upon the gaugemaster controller which I thought was a neater solution but the point is the Hornby controller power supply does kick out a higher voltage.  I would have thought the NCE system voltage was sufficient though, certainly for testing in these circumstances.

By "NCE board" do you mean the PCP that comes with the PowerCab?

 

You'll need your DPDT switch to be downstream of that, i.e. between the PCP and the track. If you're feeding the DC through the PCP I'm pretty sure it won't work.

 

[PMP]

When I ran Albion Yard and Shelfie1 with DC/DCC both power source inputs were side by side. Both fed into the simple wiring loom at the same physical point, but entirely independent of one another. If swapping modes, I’d turn everything off, physically unplug the controller, plug the other one in to it’s dedicated feed, and switch on again. 
 

That worked with no problems, the layouts however were uncomplicated with few isolating sections, and points powered from an independent circuit too.

Edited Saturday at 07:51 by PMP

[gingerangles]

41 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

By "NCE board" do you mean the PCP that comes with the PowerCab?

 

You'll need your DPDT switch to be downstream of that, i.e. between the PCP and the track. If you're feeding the DC through the PCP I'm pretty sure it won't work.

 

 

No what I mean is everything (both the NCE PCP and the Guagemaster socket) has power all the time, both systems feed one pole of the switch and the track is connected to the common/central connections of the switch. So throwing the switch changes which system is connected to the track.

[gingerangles]

I didn't see any reason it wouldn't work @PMP 👍

 

Here is a rubbish diagram of the setup...

 

[PMP]

1 hour ago, gingerangles said:

I didn't see any reason it wouldn't work @PMP 👍

 

Here is a rubbish diagram of the setup...

 

Mine was far simpler, two independent control systems. Either was literally unplugged at the layout socket, so all I had was wires going to an empty socket for the system not in use

Edited Saturday at 10:05 by PMP

[gingerangles]

54 minutes ago, PMP said:

Mine was far simpler, two independent control systems. Either was literally unplugged at the layout socket, so all I had was wires going to an empty socket for the system not in use

 

Makes sense.  It's not massively dissimilar to what I've done, instead of "layout sockets" I've got a switch - should make no difference - and I'm sharing a transformer for both DC and DCC - obviously both are never in use at the same time.  My gaugemaster controller is a 2nd hand unit to me so, I'm thinking either the controller is dodgy or the power supply isn't compatible.

 

I've just connected the DC side up (when I was messing with it before I was using the M7 loco mentioned in the above post which turned out to have an issue itself) and even with nothing on the track when I turn the power knob I get a full brightness constant light... I think that means a short?

 

[PMP]

Assuming there’s been no change to their protocol the illuminated light indicates power ‘on’, if you have a short it’ll go out. Easy test, turn it on low power and bridge the rails with something metal and the light should go out. 

[gingerangles]

34 minutes ago, PMP said:

Assuming there’s been no change to their protocol the illuminated light indicates power ‘on’, if you have a short it’ll go out. Easy test, turn it on low power and bridge the rails with something metal and the light should go out. 

 

I've actually got a spare... last 20 mins had the soldering iron on and swapped em... all now working! 👏🍰

[gingerangles]

Seeing as I've managed to actually finish something, I thought I'd share my test rig project in case anyone fancies using any of the ideas or thoughts behind it (I'm sure it's all stuff that's been done before so don't worry, I don't think I'm breaking new ground here 😂)...

 

So I wanted a separate, mobile, loco test rig that I could use for programming and trouble shooting.  Therefore it needed a little piece of track, rolling road and obviously means of control.  It needed to be DCC absolutely but I wanted to have a DC facility also.  Now I use JMRI decoder pro, I find this really useful for programming over the clunky menus of the Powercab but I think its an absolute must for backing up loco decoder settings.  This way you can reset a loco if it develops problems knowing full well you can restore from a back up.  I have also (rightly or wrongly - cant make up my mind) installed DCC Concepts Aegis system on the layout - this doesn't play nicely (well, at all TBH) with the 'On Programming Track' setup in JMRI - a real pain.  This means if I want to read loco decoders I cant do it on the layout without bypassing Aegis - not a massive issue but frustrating non the less.  

 

This lead me down the route of wanting to 'keep' the USB interface available with the test rig so I can easily put a loco on the test rig to 'Program Track' it.  I didn't however want to lose the JMRI interface to the layout.  This made me want to incorporate external connections on the test rig case to connect the PC and layout without faff to connect to the layout.

 

Here are a few pics and more info...

 

 

The case I used is a PELI case, now I believe these are quite pricy but I had this kicking around from an old job probably 10 years ago so was donated to the project 😂

 

 

Here are the connections on the side, the case has been cut away to allow access.

Top - the 6Pin Din for the Gaugemaster controller

Middle - A 'panel mount' USB connection off amazon, this is a female mountable socket which has a short lead to a male plug which is connected to the NCE USB Interface inside the compartment within the case.

Bottom - NCE PCP panel.  One of the rear sockets of this is connected to the USB Interface via a short cable.

 

 

On the opposite side is the power socket - again an amazon purchase of a suitable sized socket for the NCE Power Supply barrel connector.

 

 

Controllers connected.

 

 

View from the opposite side.

 

 

Here is a close up of the 'compartment'.  Inside here are the connections to the sockets on the outside (obviously) which are wired as follows: The Power In socket feeds both the NCE PCP and the appropriate pins on the Gaugemaster socket, PCP Track Power and the track feed from the Gaugemaster socket go to the two position DPDT switch.  The 'common' central connections of the switch therefore make track power available from either DCC or DC.  Track Power feed goes to the rails of the piece of track, to the decoder tester and the banana plug sockets.  The decoder testing is mounted on a small 3D printed mount and is a LAISDCC again from amazon (maybe ebay).

The only other connection inside, previously mentioned, is the USB interface which is connected to the external USB socket via an adapter and to the rear of the PCP panel with a short RJ12 cable I made myself (these are literally just 4 core straight through wired connections despite all this curly/straight cable nonsense you hear about - the main cab connection cable simply requires an additional 2 cores).

 

The USB socket allows me to plug it in to the laptop as it is to read and program locos using JMRI decoder pro.

 

And that's it in 'test rig' mode - I can put a loco on the track, decoder on the tester or even power an external track with the banana plugs.  I've a foam loco cradle in there (not shown) so I can have locos upside down and use probes connected to the banana plug connections.

I think it's pretty neat if I do say so myself.

 

In relation to having it connected to the layout this is quite cool I think...  I have a laptop in the layout room and what I can do is put the test rig case next to the layout, all closed up and away, and plug the laptop into the USB connection.  The 'CAB BUS' socket is then connected to a spare equivalent socket on the layout - and that's it - full PC connection to the layout with no faff.  If I want the rig elsewhere I just disconnect, put the NCE controller in it and away I go... (hopefully) solving loco problems wherever I may be 😂

 

 

[5BarVT]

As you say, nothing particularly novel about it, I have two versions doing much the same - one for JMRI/SPROG and one for Lokprogrammer.

I rather like yours with the extra space and carrying handle.  Well done.

Paul.

[gingerangles]

Been at the track again this afto...

Repainted this stretch with sleeper grime then washed the chairs with rust before running down the middle and edges of the sleepers with a lighter mix (sleeper grime, natural wood and white).

I think I might be missing the black wash, still feels a little too monotone?

 

 

 

 

 

[St Enodoc]

4 hours ago, gingerangles said:

Been at the track again this afto...

Repainted this stretch with sleeper grime then washed the chairs with rust before running down the middle and edges of the sleepers with a lighter mix (sleeper grime, natural wood and white).

I think I might be missing the black wash, still feels a little too monotone?

 

 

 

 

 

I think it's fine. Real track doesn't look like a speckled hen.