When does a trainset become a model railway - what's your criteria?

[leopardml2341]

Just wondering what you think is needed to turn a trainset into a model railway?

[newbryford]

11 minutes ago, leopardml2341 said:

Just wondering what you think is needed to turn a trainset into a model railway?

 

All trainsets are equal.

It's just that some are more equal than others.

 

 

I'm allowed to call my layout a trainset, but god forbid anyone else who does........

 

😀

 

p.s. Hi Andy!

Edited February 21 by newbryford

[sjrixon]

When it's operated in a realistic and railway like manner.. 

[PhilH]

23 minutes ago, sjrixon said:

When it's operated in a realistic and railway like manner.. 

All well and good if it’s a busy mainline, not so good if it’s a one train every two hours branchline. 

[MarkSG]

21 minutes ago, sjrixon said:

When it's operated in a realistic and railway like manner.. 

 

So Pendon is a just a train set then? Because, despite the detail and fidelity of the modelling, operationally it's just a big roundy-roundy...

[sjrixon]

I disagree - I don't let time get in the way of realistic operation. There are actually quite a few nice articles that have been written about running to a sped up clock. 

[MarkSG]

49 minutes ago, leopardml2341 said:

Just wondering what you think is needed to turn a trainset into a model railway?

 

I think it becomes a model railway as soon as you start making a deliberate effort to recreate something which represents a real (or plausibly fictional) railway, rather than just buying and running whatever takes your fancy.

[MattR]

A train set is a retail pre-packaged box of motive power/stock/track/sometimes controller.

 

Add one thing that wasn't in the box and it's not a train set anymore.

 

If you use only the things in the box on a permanent layout with scenery and operate it to the most mind-numbingly accurate real life standard as recorded at Flibbetyflom Station from 1-4 p.m. on Jan. 27, 1959, it's still a trainset.

 

 

Edited February 21 by MattR

[Legend]

I think scenery and some attempt at realistic operation .

 

Mine  is unashamedly a train set . I just enjoy watching the trains go round and round . 

[MichaelE]

Across the Pond here in the Colonies, a trainset is something that comes complete and ready to run in a box. Usually a circle or oval of track is what you get. To me, that is a trainset.

 

I don't know where the line between a trainset and a layout is drawn. I know people built 'layouts' on a 4x8 sheet of plywood that is nothing more than an expansion of what came in the box. Others add a lot of variation to that roundy-round, add realistic scenery, weathering in some cases, and variations in terrain. At that point I think it starts turning into a model railroad.

 

I also think that the larger the area is that you have to work with will add to that impression of a model railroad instead of an oval of track(s) on a rectangle of plywood. Multiple levels also add to that impression.

 

I cringe everytime I hear someone call a beautiful, well constructed, room-filling layout, 'a train set'. I don't usually hear this from other model railroaders, but the general uninformed public at train shows.

[andyman7]

1 hour ago, sjrixon said:

When it's operated in a realistic and railway like manner.. 

 

I'm afraid that's likely to be far too broad a definition to help! Taken to extremes that would exclude 99.9% of modellers and potentially leave us only with a painfully serious gentleman modelling a section the Fairford branch (or whatever) in P4 as it was on the afternoon of Wednesday 4th October 1950.

 

18 minutes ago, MattR said:

A train set is a retail pre-packaged box of motive power/stock/track/sometimes controller.

 

Add one thing that wasn't in the box and it's not a train set anymore.

 

If you use only the things in the box on a permanent layout with scenery and operate it to the most mind-numbingly accurate real life standard as recorded at Flibbetyflom Station from 1-4 p.m. on Jan. 27, 1959, it's still a trainset.

I'm more inclined to this one although I'd argue that the input/knowledge of operating the train set to prototype practice elevates it. The 'operation' is being modelled by the user in the true sense of the word.

 

 

[sncf231e]

Some trainsets are model railways, like this:

Regards

Fred

[Dungrange]

1 hour ago, leopardml2341 said:

Just wondering what you think is needed to turn a trainset into a model railway?

 

I define a 'train set' as a layout where the focus is on the train. 

 

The train departs from the only station on an oval, completes multiple circuits of a continuous circuit and stops again at the same station.  The reality is that the train is back where it started from, but there is a pretence that it has left from somewhere, passed through some intermediate stations without stopping and ended up at a different location.  The train set is effectively a 'prop' to tell the story of the train's journey.  Since the focus is on the train, there is less need for scenery beyond the track, although the layout could be fully scenic and it would still, in my opinion, be a train set.  As the station represents multiple locations, it doesn't need to be a scale model.

 

I define a 'model railway' as a layout where the focus is on a location and it aims to capture realistic operation at that location. 

 

Where a train set is telling the story of a train's journey, a model railway is presenting a day in the life of the location, modelling the trains that arrive and depart from that location. For example, it may be intended to replicate the station that serves a settlement. It therefore needs a representation of that settlement and the station needs to be operated in a reasonably prototypical manner.

 

Ultimately, I think all 'model railways' need to have some place that represents the rest of the railway network (ie a fiddle yard).

 

33 minutes ago, sncf231e said:

Some trainsets are model railways, like this:

 

I very much see that as a train set, because the focus is on the train.  It can't be operated in a prototypical manner.

[westernviscount]

A trainset could be said to be elevated to model railway status as soon as track pins are involved. I believe an attempt at semi permanence is the threshold.  Carpet dwelling track is a trainset. I don't believe prototypical running or anything to do with prototype matters when it comes to model railways. 

[Jeff Smith]

1 hour ago, MarkSG said:

 

I think it becomes a model railway as soon as you start making a deliberate effort to recreate something which represents a real (or plausibly fictional) railway, rather than just buying and running whatever takes your fancy.

Does this therefore exclude a fictional steam centre or preserved railway?

 

A simple definition could be that a train set is not a permanent set-up, ie gets taken out and laid out, run, then broken up and put back in the box, or boxes if other items have been added.  A layout, whether operated realistically or not, and whether representing a real railway or not, tends to be nailed or stuck down, even using parts from a train set box.....

 

Next question - what is the definition of a diorama?  When does a diorama become a model railway? or vice versa?  Is a diorama just a static display, or if you can move a train on it does it become a model railway?

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

A train set is a model railway, a model railway is a train set, can't see a difference myself.

Some people like to call their train set a model railway because to them it infers some degree of superiority.

Personally, I model railways and I've got a train set.

 

Mike.

[Steamport Southport]

12 minutes ago, westernviscount said:

A trainset could be said to be elevated to model railway status as soon as track pins are involved. I believe an attempt at semi permanence is the threshold.  Carpet dwelling track is a trainset. I don't believe prototypical running or anything to do with prototype matters when it comes to model railways. 

 

Pretty much. Once it's on a board it's a layout. When you add scenery then it's a model.

 

By some definitions on here even layouts such as Stoke Summit and The Hills Of The North aren't proper model railways which is just silly.

 

 

 

Jason

Edited February 21 by Steamport Southport

[298]

1 hour ago, sncf231e said:

Some trainsets are model railways, like this:

Regards

Fred

 

I take it it's S scale and not O? If it was the latter, it'd have a spare rail on the track centreline and that would definitely make it a train set.

[Dagworth]

Refer to Rule 1

 

Andi

[33C]

When you start ballasting the track.....

[BoD]

It becomes a model railway when it isn’t a 6x4 (or similarly proportioned) baseboard (in 00) with a double oval in each direction and as much extra track fitted in as possible.  

Edited February 21 by BoD

[MarkSG]

4 hours ago, Jeff Smith said:

Does this therefore exclude a fictional steam centre or preserved railway?

 

No, because that's a plausible fictional scenario.

 

4 hours ago, Jeff Smith said:

A simple definition could be that a train set is not a permanent set-up, ie gets taken out and laid out, run, then broken up and put back in the box, or boxes if other items have been added.  A layout, whether operated realistically or not, and whether representing a real railway or not, tends to be nailed or stuck down, even using parts from a train set box.....

 

Personally, I think it's still a train set even if it's permanently attached to a baseboard. It's making at least some effort towards real life or fictional plausibility (even if it involves a significant willing suspension of disbelief) which I think is the key. 

 

That doesn't have to be a model of an actual railway. It can be completely fictitious. I'd call Laurie Calvert's steampunk layouts model railways, not train sets, because although they're unrelated to the real world they're set in a plausible and consistent alternate universe (and there's a lot of excellent scenic modelling going on there, too). But SamsTrains' setup is a train set. It's a big, expensive train set - the sort we all dreamed about as kids - but it's a train set nonetheless, because it exists solely to run lots of different and unrelated trains on, without any attempt to create a consistent modelled world.

 

4 hours ago, Jeff Smith said:

 

Next question - what is the definition of a diorama?  When does a diorama become a model railway? or vice versa?  Is a diorama just a static display, or if you can move a train on it does it become a model railway?

 

That's a good question. Arguably, some of the most famous "train in a landscape" layouts are, functionally, just very big working dioramas, because although the trains pass through the landscape they don't really interact with it at all - there's no shunting, and in some cases there aren't even any stops at stations, instead the trains just run through at a constant speed. But I think it's still a model railway even if nothing is moving, as long as it is a model of a railway. I'd say that a railway diorama is a subset of model railways, rather than being something different.

 

[SZ]

When the track plan is not a schematic.

[MartinRS]

4 hours ago, 33C said:

When you start ballasting the track.....

I think you are confusing modelling with masochism.

[dcordingley]

Very easy to overthink this whole issue. I operate a Hornby Dublo 3-rail layout, which I regard very much as a trainset. I also have a 4mm scale layout based upon a quarter mile or so of the WCML in the North West: I think of this as a model railway. Perhaps what delineates the former from the latter is the use of set pieces of trackwork ("setrack" in modern-speak)?

 

David C.