Peterborough North

[great northern]

A lovely clean A4 with an interesting backdrop will attract more photographers.

 

[great northern]

Here is a question for you on a matter that has remained unresolved for the last 64 years. This was prompted by a photo Eric, 60027 Merlin, has just posted on his Longdrem thread. The thread features all sorts of fabled engines which we down south doubted even existed, one of them being 60529 Pearl Diver.

 

Now I visited Doncaster works, with permit, in July 1958, and while in the Crimpsall shop we saw 60529's smoke deflectors propped up against a wall. However, although we looked at all the other locos in there, none could be identified as 60529. Most were well stripped down, but my recollection, which is supported by the photos which exist, is that the cab side sheets were normally still attached to the frames, enabling identity to be confirmed, We didn't see any loco anywhere else on our visit which could be identified as 60529 either.

 

Yeadon confirms that 60529 was in the Plant at the relevant time, for a casual repair. Debate raged at the time, some saying the evidence was good enough, and others, miserable sods, claiming that smoke deflectors alone could not allow a cop to be claimed. I felt it could, and underlined it in my Ian Allan, on the basis that we would have seen other bits of the loco, even though we couldn't pin them down to 60529. I believe that the evidence in Yeadon so many years later justifies my decision, but what do you think? I never saw the engine again, so this matters. Not a lot maybe, but it does.

[great northern]

The WTT shows a 13 minute gap between the passing time of the Flying Scotsman and the next train on the Up. Enough time it seems to slip in another coal train to Ferme Park.

This was an absolute sod to photoshop., as you can see if you enlarge it, so please don't.

and this one wasn't much easier, but it does make a nice shot.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

The late, great R C Riley, looks like he climbed up Crescent Road bridge to get one of his landscape shots...

[great northern]

The 1.45pm slow from KX arrives behind another of our run down local V2s, and the occupant of the red brick house at the end of Station Road took this shot from his bedroom window.

We have a more conventional shot from the Midland sidings too.

[Tony Wright]

Glad to report that the much-altered Hornby A2/2 delivered to Gilbert last week has had its nearside coupling rod repaired.....

 

 

The loco has replaced the one below............

 

 

Scratch-built getting on for 50 years ago now, it's done yeoman service on several layouts, and is still going strong. 

 

 

[landscapes]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Glad to report that the much-altered Hornby A2/2 delivered to Gilbert last week has had its nearside coupling rod repaired.....

 

 

The loco has replaced the one below............

 

 

Scratch-built getting on for 50 years ago now, it's done yeoman service on several layouts, and is still going strong. 

 

 

Hi

 

Looks fantastic, any possibility of Gilbert providing an insight as to what alterations were carried out, as I thought that the cab shape on 60506 was completely different to the A2/2’s currently produced by Hornby.

 

Regards

 

David

 

[Tony Wright]

18 minutes ago, landscapes said:

Hi

 

Looks fantastic, any possibility of Gilbert providing an insight as to what alterations were carried out, as I thought that the cab shape on 60506 was completely different to the A2/2’s currently produced by Hornby.

 

Regards

 

David

 

Good evening David,

 

Timara explained how it was done on the previous page.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[great northern]

28 minutes ago, landscapes said:

Hi

 

Looks fantastic, any possibility of Gilbert providing an insight as to what alterations were carried out, as I thought that the cab shape on 60506 was completely different to the A2/2’s currently produced by Hornby.

 

Regards

 

David

 

It is 60503/4 which can't be produced from the Hornby model, David. By my period 60506 had acquired a dia 118 boiler, and so needed no alteration in that area.

[great northern]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Glad to report that the much-altered Hornby A2/2 delivered to Gilbert last week has had its nearside coupling rod repaired.....

 

 

The loco has replaced the one below............

 

 

Scratch-built getting on for 50 years ago now, it's done yeoman service on several layouts, and is still going strong. 

 

 

Many thanks for sorting it out Tony, despite the replacement coupling rods not having arrived, which isn't surprising over the Christmas period. I should have realised that you would just give it a good looking at for a couple of minutes, and that the solution would quickly arrive. Good to know also that the original, a very significant model in its own right, will go to a good home, where its provenance will be known and respected.

[great northern]

From the bridge, we see the V2 about to reach journey's end.

A few minutes pass, by which time the stock for the Harwich has been brought in, and the B17 has backed on.

[great northern]

The 2.45 Down Newcastle appears, having caught up all but six minutes of the hour's start it gave to the V2 and its stopper.

[landscapes]

On 28/12/2022 at 19:04, Tony Wright said:

Good evening David,

 

Timara explained how it was done on the previous page.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Hi Tony

 

Thank you, I was having a minor problem on Gilbert’s thread yesterday where the previous page was just blank so I was unable to see the contents.

 

But all OK now.

 

Regards

 

David

[great northern]

We have another angle on the A3 and B17.

Then attention switches back to the V2, now simmering quietly at Platform 6.

[great northern]

Diamond Jubilee heads north.

and a sparklingly clean KX A1 comes south non stop, with the 1.25 Up Hull.

Now, here's a question for you. Do you think Great Eastern is a bit too clean?

[Flying Fox 34F]

Great Eastern looks in ex Works condition. Possibly needs to visit Dr Timara?

 

Paul

[30368]

24 minutes ago, great northern said:

Now, here's a question for you. Do you think Great Eastern is a bit too clean?

 

I suspect Gilbert that even in Doncaster Works yard 157 would have a few water streaks on the smokebox etc...

Perhaps some traces of oil around lubricators and slidebar?

And after a run or two a light dusting of smoke dust over the front part of the boiler - weathering powder?

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

[Oldddudders]

2 hours ago, great northern said:

Diamond Jubilee heads north.

and a sparklingly clean KX A1 comes south non stop, with the 1.25 Up Hull.

Now, here's a question for you. Do you think Great Eastern is a bit too clean?

Hmm. As one who finds much weathering to be extremely realistic but frankly unattractive, no!

[mullie]

2 hours ago, great northern said:

Diamond Jubilee heads north.

and a sparklingly clean KX A1 comes south non stop, with the 1.25 Up Hull.

Now, here's a question for you. Do you think Great Eastern is a bit too clean?

What do photograph's of the time show?

 

Martyn 

[davidw]

2 hours ago, 30368 said:

 

I suspect Gilbert that even in Doncaster Works yard 157 would have a few water streaks on the smokebox etc...

Perhaps some traces of oil around lubricators and slidebar?

And after a run or two a light dusting of smoke dust over the front part of the boiler - weathering powder?

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

I agree it needs a little. Presumably it was based at the Cross. So it would have been well cleaned.

[great northern]

5 minutes ago, mullie said:

What do photograph's of the time show?

 

Martyn 

Good question Martyn. Photographers did tend to point their camera much more at well cleaned engines, so it is easy to get a rather skewed and "rose coloured spectacles" view of things. The reality was somewhat different. Yes, some sheds, KX and until 1959 Grantham, kept a lot of their main line engines well cleaned, but unless it was for a very special occasion I doubt there were many to be seen which were up to the standard that Great Eastern portrays. I have seen a photo of an A1, Amadis, I think, which had been prepared for a special train to take dignitaries to, if I remember correctly, a ship launching, and that was in similar condition, as were the three A4s for the Royal Wedding in 1961. The Top Shed A4s for the Elizabethan were superbly turned out as well, but all of these were exceptions to the norm, and would have required a use of manpower that could not be achieved on a day to day basis.

 

It has to be remembered too that, particularly on a day of bad weather, that pristine finish would have been dulled somewhat by the time the engine had done no more than 100 miles. So, I'm afraid, too clean is my view, and I'd be surprised if Timara disagrees with me. The subtlety of her weathering has come on quite a bit since 60157, and one or two others, were completed.

[great northern]

42 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

Hmm. As one who finds much weathering to be extremely realistic but frankly unattractive, no!

Oh dear! Sorry Ian, but for some reason one of the things at the top of my list when considering how PN should be presented was to show things as they actually were, and the sad truth is that a really clean engine was the exception to the normal. I recall my shock when at the age of eleven, I think, I saw a K3 on Lincoln shed which must have just returned from Doncaster after overhaul. I had no idea that K3s, or almost any other black engine, had lining, for a start. No it was a dull and grimy world in general, so that is what I feel I need to show.

 

I feel that the state in which Heritage railways turn out their locomotives has tended to skew memories too, though of course I understand why they make things look as attractive as possible.

[Tony Wright]

4 hours ago, great northern said:

Diamond Jubilee heads north.

and a sparklingly clean KX A1 comes south non stop, with the 1.25 Up Hull.

Now, here's a question for you. Do you think Great Eastern is a bit too clean?

Not at all Gilbert.

 

I assume (a dangerous thing to do, I know) it's a Bachmann A1 which has been 'worked on' by Timara; 'worked on' to the extent of fitting round keeps to the axle boxes on the Cartazzi truck and tender (and removing one of the lubricators?). And, toning down the rather garish lining? 

 

It's got a very realistic finish to my eyes.

 

Did it start off as this?

 

 

Bachmann's 60157, still with two lubricators and rectangular keeps. 

 

If I may make a suggestion, please? The next time Timara has it, ask her to raise the rear end of the footplate to match the soleplate on the tender, and add the wiggly pipes on the smokebox.

 

If anything, my 60157 is cleaner.......

 

 

 

Built by me from a DJH kit (modified to suit a roller-bearing-fitted example) and painted by Geoff Haynes. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[great northern]

22 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Not at all Gilbert.

 

I assume (a dangerous thing to do, I know) it's a Bachmann A1 which has been 'worked on' by Timara; 'worked on' to the extent of fitting round keeps to the axle boxes on the Cartazzi truck and tender (and removing one of the lubricators?). And, toning down the rather garish lining? 

 

It's got a very realistic finish to my eyes.

 

Did it start off as this?

 

 

Bachmann's 60157, still with two lubricators and rectangular keeps. 

 

If I may make a suggestion, please? The next time Timara has it, ask her to raise the rear end of the footplate to match the soleplate on the tender, and add the wiggly pipes on the smokebox.

 

If anything, my 60157 is cleaner.......

 

 

 

Built by me from a DJH kit (modified to suit a roller-bearing-fitted example) and painted by Geoff Haynes. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

Bachmann it is, but I don't remember what the donor was. Timara did indeed do the work you have described, but several years ago, and she has moved on considerably since then. I will see what she thinks, but I'll be surprised if she doesn't want to improve it somewhat. There's a photo of Sir Nigel Gresley a few posts back, and she has already asked me to let her have another go at that, as she feels it is not up to current standards.

[great northern]

I have had a look through my copy of British Railways Steaming through Peterborough. I found 51 images of Pacifics and V2s, of which just under half, 25, were what I would classify as clean, That basically meaning that they have a sheen to the paintwork, the original colour being easily discernable, and most, if not all, lining visible. Of the 25, 6 clearly were recently ex works, and mainly captioned as such. Captions can be dodgy, but I can't see any glaring errors with these. Apart from some, but not even all of those, I could find no images at all that came anywhere near the cleanliness of my Great Eastern. To my mind, that is almost an exhibition finish.