Peterborough North

[Metropolitan H]

44 minutes ago, Woodcock29 said:

The last coach was running a hot box and needed to be removed by the lovely little N5?

Not quite. The "Leading" BR Mk1 brake has run hot or failed the wheel-tapping test - a lot of that done at Peterborough North. The train engine "Minoru" has moved the failed vehicle to the bay while the N5 Pilot has backed on a replacement Gresley brake end coach. Now the N5 will get clear while Minoru recouples the train, does a brake test then gets on its way with a delay!

 

Regards

Chris H

[Herbert Nigel]

Still “not quite”.
It isn’t Minoru that’s going to take the Heart of  Midlothian forward.

60517 is rostered to take over here (and fortuitously has managed to park out of the way to allow this particular manoeuvre). Did they know in advance?

[jwealleans]

Is it not just as simple as giving it a push?

[great northern]

A combination of two answers above gives the correct sequence of events.  The explanation for all this can be seen in the shot of 60517 crossing over, which reveals a Hunt coupling on the tender. We decided a little while back that we might use them on future locos, but I forgot the slight problem that would cause, namely that most of my brake coaches have kadees, and so when engine changes are required there could be problems.

 

Sod's law said that this would happen here, and it occurred to me that I could get myself out of a hole by saying that the leading BCK had developed a problem, and would have to be replaced on arrival. My version was to be that the crew had alerted PN to the problem in advance, allowing the pilot to have already gone off and found the first BCK  to hand. Would that have been possible though? I know that there used to be code crows on whistles to tell a signalman that a replacement engine was going to be required, but can our experts who actually worked on the real thing tell me if that could have extended to something like this? Surely the driver would not have stopped at a box to relay the information?

 

Anyway, Number 5 bay, often occupied by vans and a stabled DMU was empty on this occasion, so that's why 60517 went there. It did turn out to be fortuitious  of course, as it allowed Minoru to put the failed BCK in a position where passengers could be disembarked and wait for the replacement to be attached. Anyway, it made a nice change, didn't it, although on the real thing on a summer Saturday it would have had authority tearing its hair out.

 

So the N5 has got out of the way, 60517 has backed on, and sod's law said that it would finish up with a pole sticking out of the chimney.

 

 

While all this was going on, a 4F had sneaked into the old shed yard, and someone decided to photograph that instead.

 

 

 

 

[31A]

15 minutes ago, great northern said:

Surely the driver would not have stopped at a box to relay the information?

 

I think they would.  You sometimes read about messages being thrown out wrapped round lumps of coal or restaurant car potatoes, but I think that would be too chancy for that kind of situation.

[jazzer]

1 hour ago, 31A said:

 

I think they would.  You sometimes read about messages being thrown out wrapped round lumps of coal or restaurant car potatoes, but I think that would be too chancy for that kind of situation.

But how would the engine crew know the coach had a hot box ? Most of the time hot boxes seem to have occurred on freight trains and noticed by the signal man, presumably because it was smoking or something . In fact, I am not certain but fairly sure that it was part of the signalman’s job to look at for such problems as the train passed. It was certainly his job to check the tail lamp so that he knew the train would be complete.  The other thing is that I am also pretty certain that a hot box would have been stopped as soon as possible , not necessarily it first scheduled stop.

So my scenario is that the train had a 10 minute later departure from KX but Bill Hoole was driving so he had made the time up by PN but alas the leading coach couldn’t take the pace and was starting to run hot as they were slowing down for the stop at PN and the signalman at the last signal box before the station noticed the hot box and immediately notified the station  🙂.

[31A]

3 minutes ago, jazzer said:

But how would the engine crew know the coach had a hot box ?

If the Guard became aware he could alert them by applying the brake.  But yes, it was part of the signalman's job to observe passing trains for such defects.

 

[great northern]

3 minutes ago, 31A said:

If the Guard became aware he could alert them by applying the brake.  But yes, it was part of the signalman's job to observe passing trains for such defects.

 

Assuming it was a hot box then, would that become noticeable to the passengers in that coach?  If so, perhaps someone would have told the guard. Also, would a signalman who saw the defect contact another down the line to stop the train, thus allowing the station to be alerted?

[great northern]

11 minutes ago, jazzer said:

But how would the engine crew know the coach had a hot box ? Most of the time hot boxes seem to have occurred on freight trains and noticed by the signal man, presumably because it was smoking or something . In fact, I am not certain but fairly sure that it was part of the signalman’s job to look at for such problems as the train passed. It was certainly his job to check the tail lamp so that he knew the train would be complete.  The other thing is that I am also pretty certain that a hot box would have been stopped as soon as possible , not necessarily it first scheduled stop.

So my scenario is that the train had a 10 minute later departure from KX but Bill Hoole was driving so he had made the time up by PN but alas the leading coach couldn’t take the pace and was starting to run hot as they were slowing down for the stop at PN and the signalman at the last signal box before the station noticed the hot box and immediately notified the station  🙂.

Nice thought, but in that case there wouldn't have been a pilot ready and waiting with a replacement. As to stopping the train as soon as possible, I'd have thought that would be a last resort. If it was on a four track section where there was a Down slow rather than a Down goods, that could be an option, but to block the whole main line would be avoided unless absolutely necessary. Carrying on at reduced speed seems most likely to me, after a short stop to be informed of the problem.

[31A]

1 hour ago, great northern said:

Assuming it was a hot box then, would that become noticeable to the passengers in that coach?  If so, perhaps someone would have told the guard. Also, would a signalman who saw the defect contact another down the line to stop the train, thus allowing the station to be alerted?

 

It might have been noticeable to passengers, in which case they could have used the communication cord.

 

I have found the reference to "restaurant car potato", which was in Stanley Hall's book "Danger on the Line", which I had been topically reading as it deals with accidents caused by buckled rails.  But the 'potato' reference was in connection with the train fire near Huntingdon in 1951 involving on of the ex Streamliner twin sets.  The Guard suspected a hot box and wrote a note, then looked for a potato, couldn't find one and threw the note out anyway.  It was found the next day; Stanley Hall comments that it was lucky it wan't a hot box or the results would have been worse.

 

But the same chapter reminded me that it was also part of the enginemen's duties to look back along the train for signs of trouble.

 

This is mentioned in connection with another train fire, in the vicinity of Beattock in 1950 on a Birmingham-Glasgow express in which the fireman had recently looked back, and a nearby signalman had observed the passage of the train, and neither had seen anything, as the fire was within a coach which suddenly erupted into a fireball.

 

In both cases the trains were actually stopped by passengers pulling the communication cord, and the fires were exacerbated by the use of flammable materials including nitrocellulose varnish in the coaches.

 

1 hour ago, great northern said:

Assuming it was a hot box then, would that become noticeable to the passengers in that coach?  If so, perhaps someone would have told the guard. Also, would a signalman who saw the defect contact another down the line to stop the train, thus allowing the station to be alerted?

 

It would most likely have been a case of "Stop and Examine Train" on the block bell to the next box.  Then Control would have made whatever arrangements most appropriate.

 

[Flying Fox 34F]

On those parts of the National network that are still controlled by traditional Signalling, it is still requirement for the Signaller, (Signalman or Signalwoman), to observe the train passing to check for, “Any signs of Alarm.” 
As has been commented above a Hot Axlebox is very serious and can lead to a seized axle or worse a sheared axle. If smoke or sparks are observed, the train must be stopped.  Reports on the ECML these days come via staff who happen to be lineside or by a train travelling in the opposite direction.

I’ve stopped several trains in my time and I’ve attended a few incidents where eventually a Wheelskate had to be fitted to recovery the offending vehicle. 

 

Paul

[great northern]

Bringing the Heart of Midlothian saga to a close, we have two more shots from that upper window. 60517 goes on its way...

 

 

After which Minoru takes the offending BCK off towards New England.

 

 

That is a very short express.

[great northern]

The station staff will no doubt be hoping that is the end of any excitement for the day, but things will be running late, if they weren't already. On the Up, 60143 appears with the 1035 Newcastle-KX.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[New Haven Neil]

Here was me thinking the N5 was going to take the train forward due to the unavailability of a suitable replacement engine.....

 

Note to serious persons - this is a joke, based on my long term appreciation of Gilberts station pilot!

[great northern]

Northbound the 1.18 KX-Leeds is due to stop for 5 minutes between 2.40 and 2.45pm. A very highly polished KX A1 is in charge.

 

 

 

Coming south is an Up Leeds, Victor Wild of Grantham at the head.

 

 

 

 

[great northern]

The 1.28 KX-Hull brings a borrowed March V2 back from London. It will probably come off at Doncaster, and return to March via the GN/GE.

 

 

We haven't had a view through the arch for quite a while.

 

 

 

 

 

[30368]

I really like the view of the grubby V2 from the bay, and the lady with the summery blue frock seems to be admiring the loco too, or perhaps it is a member of the footplate crew?

 

Who knows?

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

PS The "feather" of staining from the vacuum ejector pipe joint with the smokebox is very well done with the suggestion of air flow affecting the staining. Tim's work I suspect?

[great northern]

13 minutes ago, 30368 said:

I really like the view of the grubby V2 from the bay, and the lady with the summery blue frock seems to be admiring the loco too, or perhaps it is a member of the footplate crew?

 

Who knows?

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

PS The "feather" of staining from the vacuum ejector pipe joint with the smokebox is very well done with the suggestion of air flow affecting the staining. Tim's work I suspect?

Yes, Tim's work. It is this kind of detail that he excels in more and more with every loco he does for me. I think that lady does like the trains, so much so that she seems to be rooted to the spot.

[great northern]

Both sides of 60803 are seen as it heads away to the north.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[great northern]

Due to stop between 3.01 and 3.06pm, an interesting express arrives. Sir Nigel Gresley has 13 coaches behind the tender, including portions from Ripon, Harrogate Bradford and Leeds. Ripon passengers going all the way to London had already been on board for just over four hours by this time, with still another hour and a half to go. It really was a much slower pace of life back then. Restaurant car facilities, together with kitchen car, were available from Leeds though. Civilised.

 

The train had stopped at Doncaster for nine minutes, so I've assumed that Sir Nigel took over there. A full look at what is behind the tender will come later, though I'm hoping that Andy won't be looking too closely.😟

 

 

With such a load, this is where the loco stands waiting time.

 

 

 

 

 

[great northern]

So here are the 13 coaches behind 60007. I've tried to check for errors, but at normal size I can hardly see the numbers, let alone read them.

 

 

I do know there are duplicated numbers, but as most of the time there is only me to notice, I'm afraid idleness reigns. Three BSOs- thank goodness Hornby got round to producing them. As to roofboards, with so many trains being assembled from loose stock they are a problem. Perhaps I should remove all of them, but that would look equally wrong, wouldn't it?

 

 

 

[thegreenhowards]

Looking good Gilbert,

 

At least they’ve all got numbers this time!

Andg

 

[great northern]

On Saturdays we still have the two early afternoon trains up the E.Lincs within forty minutes of each other, but the first now goes on to Cleethorpes, and runs to a faster timing, with less stops, The 3.00 has a more sedate journey, very suitable for an elderly locomotive.

 

 

A closer crop than usual, does it meet with approval?  Then a view a few yards into the journey.

 

 

[great northern]

An eight mile walk this afternoon means that I'm already thinking longingly of bed, and so your evening pictures are rather early. 60983 has made a quick turn round at KX, and is taking the 1.40 Edinburgh as far as Grantham.

 

 

Gosh, things do look different when I wipe all the dust off the monitor.

[great northern]

A last look at 60983.

 

 

And then a rarity for a Saturday, a trip working. This one is even more rare, as it started at Conington sidings, about half way between here and Huntingdon. If my memory is reliable, they were built during WW2, to divert the Luftwaffe's attention away from New England yards. I do remember passing them on journeys to and from London, and seeing wagons and vans, but never a locomotive. Perhaps this was a weekly working?