Peterborough North

[great northern]

2 hours ago, SR Chris said:

Weird, I looked at that last image and studied the B2 and its train, not noticing the lamp post. Then I read your caption and looked again, it was as if the lamp post had sprouted from the B2's chimney while I was reading your sentence! Proves that we only see what we are looking for I guess.

I admit that I mention these things to anticipate the comments which I expect to come.  I actually do remember taking some time over this shot, and moving the loco slightly, probably more than once. All I achieved, obviously, was to make things worse than they already might have been.

[phil.c]

Just remove the lamp post from the picture, or move it

[great northern]

1 minute ago, phil.c said:

Just remove the lamp post from the picture, or move it

Rather pathetic, I know, but I just can't bring myself to do that. I try to show what is really there, so I very rarely tamper with images. Another self imposed and probably unnecessary rule.

[Tony Wright]

On 10/03/2020 at 23:12, thegreenhowards said:

Which goes to show that you need a lot of B1s to run a convincing sequence on an ECML based layout...as I'm finding out on Gresley Jn. You seem to have a good selection, but sadly I seem to be deficient in the B1 department. Luckily Kernow are selling Hornby B1, 61032, for £100 at the moment, so I've just stocked up on another one. That was a Stockton one so it will need renumbering, but might be worth going for if your locoholics anonymous class will let you!

 

 

 

Good afternoon Andy,

 

Does Hornby do this style of B1 smokebox door? I've an idea it's not as bulbous.

 

 

61097 would appear to have the same style, bulbous door. I know that's not the sort fitted to the Bachmann B1 (though 'doors changed frequently).

 

Out of supplementary interest, and since is PN's thread, in the course of getting together The Book of the B1s, I've come across these Grimsby/Cleethorpes/Kings Cross trains, none of which actually match the BR carriage working diagrams I've got (which rather goes to show the wisdom of modelling from actual photographs).

 

The first carriage in this East Lincs line express entering PN is a BR-built Thompson TK (not in any of my documents).  

 

Coming the other way, we have a train from Grimsby/Cleethorpes made up of a right mix; and, look at that wonderful first van. Does anyone know its origin? None of my BR records show a BG as first vehicle (assuming it's gangwayed). And, what's that fantastic van to the right? 

 

 

And just coming off the Spalding road at Werrington Junction. Were East Lincs line expresses usually this long?

 

Please (all) observe copyright restrictions. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

Edited March 13, 2020 by Tony Wright
to clarify a point

[phil.c]

1 hour ago, great northern said:

Rather pathetic, I know, but I just can't bring myself to do that. I try to show what is really there, so I very rarely tamper with images. Another self imposed and probably unnecessary rule.

That's fair comment, but a small edit means not having to set everything up again for another shot and you would be just moving a lamp post not adding something that wasn't there to start with

[great northern]

2 minutes ago, phil.c said:

That's fair comment, but a small edit means not having to set everything up again for another shot and you would be just moving a lamp post not adding something that wasn't there to start with

I could erase it Phil, but moving it I wouldn't have a clue. It isn't the end of the world however you look at it.

[31A]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Coming the other way, we have a train from Grimsby/Cleethorpes made up of a right mix; and, look at that wonderful first van. Does anyone know its origin? None of my BR records show a BG as first vehicle (assuming it's gangwayed). And, what's that fantastic van to the right? 

 

 

 

 

First vehicle behind 61159 seems to be one of the Diagram 53E Parcels Vans (PMV) rebuilt from ex GER Ilford line suburban carriages, numbers E6002E - E6081E; as such neither gangwayed nor a brake van.  No idea about the one to the right; it looks a bit GW but the Great Central had some bogie fish vans with similar framing (although the roof looks wrong for that).

 

[chrisf]

The fantastic van on the right looks to me like a GW Monster.

 

Chris

[jwealleans]

I was going to suggest an ex-LMS theatre van, but with no more certainty than any of the other ideas.   Marvellous vehicle anyway.

[John Isherwood]

DELETED

Edited March 13, 2020 by cctransuk

[great northern]

Golden Eagle now attached to its train, but a while to wait yet before the off.

 

 

Please note that this time I made sure the post was not sticking out of the chimney. I don't think it looks much better where it is now though. Actually, there is so much time for 60023 still to wait, that a trip working can slip by on the slow, and get straight across to the yards without being stopped as usual.

 

 

[thegreenhowards]

9 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

Good afternoon Andy,

 

Does Hornby do this style of B1 smokebox door? I've an idea it's not as bulbous.

 

 

61097 would appear to have the same style, bulbous door. I know that's not the sort fitted to the Bachmann B1 (though 'doors changed frequently).

 

Out of supplementary interest, and since is PN's thread, in the course of getting together The Book of the B1s, I've come across these Grimsby/Cleethorpes/Kings Cross trains, none of which actually match the BR carriage working diagrams I've got (which rather goes to show the wisdom of modelling from actual photographs).

 

 

The first carriage in this East Lincs line express entering PN is a BR-built Thompson TK (not in any of my documents).  

 

 

Coming the other way, we have a train from Grimsby/Cleethorpes made up of a right mix; and, look at that wonderful first van. Does anyone know its origin? None of my BR records show a BG as first vehicle (assuming it's gangwayed). And, what's that fantastic van to the right? 

 

 

And just coming off the Spalding road at Werrington Junction. Were East Lincs line expresses usually this long?

 

Please (all) observe copyright restrictions. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

Tony,

 

Thanks for your comments and photos. Most of the photos I’ve seen of the Cleethorpes trains seem to have at least one ex LNER coach standing in for a mark 1 (as well as the catering which was booked Gresley). I have a Gresley BSK(4) in my rake.

 

As for 61032/ 61097, I struggle to spot the difference between the smoke box doors unless the angle is just right, but here is a picture of the Hornby model (only real coal added so far - I’ve been concentrating on my other purchases).

 

I think you’re right that this is the flatter door.

 

The photo of 61097 which really inspired me is in the middle of ‘The Power of the B1s’ (no page numbers) emerging from Potters Bar tunnel in 1957, so rather earlier than your photo. It’s difficult to be sure from the front 3/4 view but I think this is the flatter door. I know they changed over the years. Is there a definitive list or is it just a case of looking at photos? 

 

Also is there a source for a replacement bulbous door?

 

Andy

Edited March 13, 2020 by thegreenhowards

[Tony Wright]

8 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Tony,

 

Thanks for your comments and photos. Most of the photos I’ve seen of the Cleethorpes trains seem to have at least one ex LNER coach standing in for a mark 1 (as well as the catering which was booked Gresley). I have a Gresley BSK(4) in my rake.

 

As for 61032/ 61097, I struggle to spot the difference between the smoke box doors unless the angle is just right, but here is a picture of the Hornby model (only real coal added so far - I’ve been concentrating on my other purchases).

 

I think you’re right that this is the flatter door.

 

The photo of 61097 which really inspired me is in the middle of ‘The Power of the B1s’ (no page numbers) emerging from Potters Bar tunnel in 1957, so rather earlier than your photo. It’s difficult to be sure from the front 3/4 view but I think this is the flatter door. I know they changed over the years. Is there a definitive list or is it just a case of looking at photos? 

 

Also is there a source for a replacement bulbous door?

 

Andy

Good morning Andy,

 

I know of no list of smokebox doors for B1s, and I won't be including one in my book. However, it's something I'll be commenting on when captioning the pictures.

 

Replacement doors? Years ago, Nu-Cast used to supply bits from their kits, and I bought a selection of the firm's B1, K1 and O2 doors (all of which are bulbous). Some had closer-together hingestraps (a feature of some B1 'doors). Now, Dave Ellis of SE Finecast has taken over the old Nu-Cast range (ex-Autocom), but I know he won't be re-releasing any of the three kits mentioned (RTR rules, OK!). That said, he might be prepared to cast some of the 'doors. 

 

Mike Russel of DMR used to sell spare parts from his kits as well (B2/K1), but he no longer owns the range. 

 

I also acquired umpteen LNER smokebox doors from EAMES, two generations ago, but they're no longer available. 

 

Not a lot to go on, I'm afraid.

 

Observing your model of 61032, what time period is your layout set? I ask this because the B1 has the rear coal division plate in the tender set-back. Most had these moved forward by the mid-'50s onward. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[micklner]

Dave Bradwell does lost wax B1 doors. DMR bits are with Phoenix Precision Paints.

Edited March 14, 2020 by micklner

[bigwordsmith]

13 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Andy,

 

I know of no list of smokebox doors for B1s, and I won't be including one in my book. However, it's something I'll be commenting on when captioning the pictures.

 

Replacement doors? Years ago, Nu-Cast used to supply bits from their kits, and I bought a selection of the firm's B1, K1 and O2 doors (all of which are bulbous). Some had closer-together hingestraps (a feature of some B1 'doors). Now, Dave Ellis of SE Finecast has taken over the old Nu-Cast range (ex-Autocom), but I know he won't be re-releasing any of the three kits mentioned (RTR rules, OK!). That said, he might be prepared to cast some of the 'doors. 

 

Mike Russel of DMR used to sell spare parts from his kits as well (B2/K1), but he no longer owns the range. 

 

I also acquired umpteen LNER smokebox doors from EAMES, two generations ago, but they're no longer available. 

 

Not a lot to go on, I'm afraid.

 

Observing your model of 61032, what time period is your layout set? I ask this because the B1 has the rear coal division plate in the tender set-back. Most had these moved forward by the mid-'50s onward. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

How is Dave doing these days Tony? I was one of his first customers back in the days when he opened his model shop in Felbridge.

 

As my friend and co-builder on that rather large railway pointed out 'Only you could decide to build a model railway and have a model shop open up 200 years up the road a week later!'

 

Over the next decade or so we became good friends, but after I got married and moved away, and he sold out before taking over Bob Wills' business in Forest Row we lost touch. I saw him about ten years or so ago at one of the shows, and he didn't look as though the world was his oyster.

 

IF you're talking to him, do send my regards

 

ATB

 

Peter

[thegreenhowards]

9 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Andy,

 

I know of no list of smokebox doors for B1s, and I won't be including one in my book. However, it's something I'll be commenting on when captioning the pictures.

 

Replacement doors? Years ago, Nu-Cast used to supply bits from their kits, and I bought a selection of the firm's B1, K1 and O2 doors (all of which are bulbous). Some had closer-together hingestraps (a feature of some B1 'doors). Now, Dave Ellis of SE Finecast has taken over the old Nu-Cast range (ex-Autocom), but I know he won't be re-releasing any of the three kits mentioned (RTR rules, OK!). That said, he might be prepared to cast some of the 'doors. 

 

Mike Russel of DMR used to sell spare parts from his kits as well (B2/K1), but he no longer owns the range. 

 

I also acquired umpteen LNER smokebox doors from EAMES, two generations ago, but they're no longer available. 

 

Not a lot to go on, I'm afraid.

 

Observing your model of 61032, what time period is your layout set? I ask this because the B1 has the rear coal division plate in the tender set-back. Most had these moved forward by the mid-'50s onward. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Thanks Tony,

 

The joys of engine picking!

 

I have a Nucast O2 kit lurking somewhere so could raid that. But off to the Basingstoke show today, so will look there as well (Thanks for the tips Mick).

 

My layout is far more flexibly timed than PN. I allow 1948-1962, although I try to ensure any particular train is correct for a date within that range. This loco will be ‘early emblem’ so will make sure it’s an early ‘50s train.

 

Andy

 

 

[Tony Wright]

3 minutes ago, bigwordsmith said:

 

How is Dave doing these days Tony? I was one of his first customers back in the days when he opened his model shop in Felbridge.

 

As my friend and co-builder on that rather large railway pointed out 'Only you could decide to build a model railway and have a model shop open up 200 years up the road a week later!'

 

Over the next decade or so we became good friends, but after I got married and moved away, and he sold out before taking over Bob Wills' business in Forest Row we lost touch. I saw him about ten years or so ago at one of the shows, and he didn't look as though the world was his oyster.

 

IF you're talking to him, do send my regards

 

ATB

 

Peter

Good morning Peter,

 

I speak with Dave regularly. He's doing all right, and is in the process of selling SE Finecast. That said, his expertise will still be required and he won't fully retire.

 

Like many kit manufacturers, he's constantly 'hit' by the burgeoning presence of so much (very good) current RTR - just look at most of the locos on this thread! 

 

And 'it gets worse'. With Hornby's announcement of the W1 in both guises, what price Dave's kits for the same? That assumes that the new stuff will eventually come out of China, of course.

 

In my view, it's to the detriment of actual 'modellers', but this has been discussed before.......

 

When I next speak with him, I'll pass on your best wishes. There is no one more helpful in this hobby.

 

Kind regards,

 

Tony.  

[jazzer]

On 11/03/2020 at 09:41, great northern said:

 

Next to come into view is the Fridays only 6.08pm from Bradford, one of my favourite A3s, Minoru, has the job.

 

 

From our coaling tower vantage point, we can see there is plenty going on just now.

 

 

 

Minoru is one of my favourites as well. It was on the cover of my first ever copy of Model Railway News, February 1957 which I still have. An usual picture in that it was taken on a dull overcast day just after heavy rain with reflections on the wet platform , looking towards the front of the enigine and the KX station throat, and the driver looking back towards the camera. Interestingly the driver is wearing a beret rather than a grease top or cloth cap, looking totally fed up with the prospect of a run to Peterborough in the rain . The whole thing is set off by a wonderfully evocative caption:

 

“ G.F. Heiron’s  camera has caught the tension that surrounds a departure of a main-line train as the driver of A3 Pacific No 60062 Minoru has a last look round whilst waiting for the right of way from Kings Cross Station”  .Somehow that sense of tension and a last look round by the driver always seemed to me to add a sense of occasion to steam departures, when I was eventually old enough to start spotting at KX. That is, until the diesels came and spoilt it all ! 

 

Little did my Dad know when he brought that MRN home it was to be the start of a life long obsession with steam locomotives ! 

[great northern]

I'm about to go and play my first game of golf for a month, so I'll catch up later.  The morning pictures are of the last Up express of the sequence, the Talisman, hauled by Silver King. Our photographers got rather fixated on this train, and took lots of photos of it. Here are the first two.

 

 

For once I've been able to photoshop Graham's lovely new signal properly, and to show all the lovely fine detail.

 

 

[Clive Mortimore]

19 hours ago, 31A said:

 

First vehicle behind 61159 seems to be one of the Diagram 53E Parcels Vans (PMV) rebuilt from ex GER Ilford line suburban carriages, numbers E6002E - E6081E; as such neither gangwayed nor a brake van.  No idea about the one to the right; it looks a bit GW but the Great Central had some bogie fish vans with similar framing (although the roof looks wrong for that).

 

I was all set to show my knowledge regarding the rebuilding of the Illford stock but was beaten by Steve.

 

Other GER Illford stock and some of the LNER 1930s built coaches were converted into CCT(E) and were used on the early Anglo-Scottish Car Carrier services. There was also a batch of the LNER coaches rebodied with Thompson style bodies for the LTSR line. The electrification to Shenfield in the late 40s saw these fairly new coaches withdrawn from service, hence the rebuilding of some but many were left in sidings at Stratford for a few years before being scrapped as there was no requirement for them else where. A fate that was to see many non life expired coaches similarly prematurely withdrawn with the advent of the modernisation and those lovely DMUs.

[31A]

2 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

I was all set to show my knowledge regarding the rebuilding of the Illford stock but was beaten by Steve.

 

Other GER Illford stock and some of the LNER 1930s built coaches were converted into CCT(E) and were used on the early Anglo-Scottish Car Carrier services. There was also a batch of the LNER coaches rebodied with Thompson style bodies for the LTSR line. The electrification to Shenfield in the late 40s saw these fairly new coaches withdrawn from service, hence the rebuilding of some but many were left in sidings at Stratford for a few years before being scrapped as there was no requirement for them else where. A fate that was to see many non life expired coaches similarly prematurely withdrawn with the advent of the modernisation and those lovely DMUs.

 

Sorry Clive!  I had in mind the picture of on one in the David Larkin "BR Parcels and Passenger Rated Stock" book as I've often thought I'd like to build one, but lack enough information really.  There's an outline drawing in Longworth (from where I confirmed the number series) and that gives a few dimensions, strangely enough that drawing shows ornate panelling on the sides which I don't think they ever really carried.  Perhaps I'll get round to it one day .... 

[John Isherwood]

57 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

I was all set to show my knowledge regarding the rebuilding of the Illford stock but was beaten by Steve.

 

Other GER Illford stock and some of the LNER 1930s built coaches were converted into CCT(E) and were used on the early Anglo-Scottish Car Carrier services. There was also a batch of the LNER coaches rebodied with Thompson style bodies for the LTSR line. The electrification to Shenfield in the late 40s saw these fairly new coaches withdrawn from service, hence the rebuilding of some but many were left in sidings at Stratford for a few years before being scrapped as there was no requirement for them else where. A fate that was to see many non life expired coaches similarly prematurely withdrawn with the advent of the modernisation and those lovely DMUs.

 

To the best of my knowledge, the BR NPCS rebuilds comprised :-

 

CCT(E) (GER ILFORD STOCK U-F) No Dia. Nos. E71035-99E (SOME FOR ANGLO-SCOTTISH CAR CARRIER)

 

CCT(E) (LNER ILFORD STOCK U-F) No Dia. Nos. E71000-34E (SOME FOR ANGLO-SCOTTISH CAR CARRIER)

 

PMV (GER ILFORD STOCK U-F) LNER Dia. 53E Nos. E6001-23, E6025-81E

 

CCT(E) (LNER U-F) Dia. 817 Nos. E96200E - E96203E (PREVIOUSLY FREIGHT STOCK E889030-33) : SEE DRAWING BELOW

 

GUV (LNER U-F) LNER Lot 1224 Nos. include E1369

 

 

If anyone knows differently, or can add detail, I'd be pleased to hear from them.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

 

 

 

[Clive Mortimore]

2 hours ago, 31A said:

 

Sorry Clive!  I had in mind the picture of on one in the David Larkin "BR Parcels and Passenger Rated Stock" book as I've often thought I'd like to build one, but lack enough information really.  There's an outline drawing in Longworth (from where I confirmed the number series) and that gives a few dimensions, strangely enough that drawing shows ornate panelling on the sides which I don't think they ever really carried.  Perhaps I'll get round to it one day .... 

Hi Steve

 

Nothing to be sorry about.

 

I have made a start on a ex LNER Illford stock CCT(E) conversion.

Should get on and finish it.

[Clive Mortimore]

2 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

To the best of my knowledge, the BR NPCS rebuilds comprised :-

 

CCT(E) (GER ILFORD STOCK U-F) No Dia. Nos. E71035-99E (SOME FOR ANGLO-SCOTTISH CAR CARRIER)

 

CCT(E) (LNER ILFORD STOCK U-F) No Dia. Nos. E71000-34E (SOME FOR ANGLO-SCOTTISH CAR CARRIER)

 

PMV (GER ILFORD STOCK U-F) LNER Dia. 53E Nos. E6001-23, E6025-81E

 

CCT(E) (LNER U-F) Dia. 817 Nos. E96200E - E96203E (PREVIOUSLY FREIGHT STOCK E889030-33) : SEE DRAWING BELOW

 

GUV (LNER U-F) LNER Lot 1224 Nos. include E1369

 

 

If anyone knows differently, or can add detail, I'd be pleased to hear from them.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

 

 

 

Hi John

 

Thank you for the drawing. One of these vans is preserved and when I first saw a photo of it I wondered why it had Gresley bogies and only two doors. The Illford stock conversions had three doors, the GER ones had a GER design of bogie and the LNER ones had a Fox design (possibly ex GNR bogies). It took me a long time to find out it was a conversion of a LNER 51ft non-gangway coach. The Illford stock being 54ft over headstocks. 

[thegreenhowards]

1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Steve

 

Nothing to be sorry about.

 

I have made a start on a ex LNER Illford stock CCT(E) conversion.

Should get on and finish it.

Clive, I love the look of that CCT(E). I’d always fancied building some but with no kit and no drawing it seemed a bit of a stretch! I might have known that you’d have given it a go. I run my car carrier with the 4 wheel CCTs instead.

 

Your pile of half completed projects must be a sight to behold!

 

Andy