RMweb Premium 31A Posted January 26, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 26, 2020 1 hour ago, great northern said: But it was a slower pace of life back then wasn' it? Besides which, main line trains could load up to 13 or more cars, and that meant at some stations they would have to pull up twice. That certainly happened at PN on the Down which could only hold 11. Then add in the fact that it was necessary to let down the window before opening the doors, and I can remember that could be fiddly and time consuming, and four minutes doesn't seem so unreasonable. Then we have splitting of portions, and addition of cars to services which were known to be full before getting to their next port of call, and of course some engine changing. As I recall, it was the addition of loads of recovery time which slowed things down, and gave crews little incentive to run hard. 10 mins 25 sec - 12 mins approx: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1b9yprvXHA 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 Hi great northern Yes, I love to see B&W Photos they seem so have an atmosphere all of there own, Great photo. Regards Jamie 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium great northern Posted January 26, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 26, 2020 6 minutes ago, 31A said: 10 mins 25 sec - 12 mins approx: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1b9yprvXHA No more than a minute and a half then? Very thought provoking. And a lot was done during that time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John Isherwood Posted January 26, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 26, 2020 3 minutes ago, great northern said: No more than a minute and a half then? Very thought provoking. And a lot was done during that time. But that was a highly edited sequence - in fact, it may not all be of the same train. It doesn't really tell us anything about the duration of station stops. Regards, John Isherwood. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 31A Posted January 26, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 26, 2020 25 minutes ago, great northern said: No more than a minute and a half then? Very thought provoking. And a lot was done during that time. 19 minutes ago, cctransuk said: But that was a highly edited sequence - in fact, it may not all be of the same train. It doesn't really tell us anything about the duration of station stops. Regards, John Isherwood. The narrative says "all within ten minutes". 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium great northern Posted January 26, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 26, 2020 6 minutes ago, 31A said: The narrative says "all within ten minutes". Ah, I shouldn't have taken my hearing aids out before watching it then? 26 minutes ago, cctransuk said: But that was a highly edited sequence - in fact, it may not all be of the same train. It doesn't really tell us anything about the duration of station stops. Regards, John Isherwood. Oh dear, Very gullible, aren't I? That never occurred to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Metropolitan H Posted January 26, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 26, 2020 7 hours ago, jazzer said: Long station stops on the ECML have always puzzled me . According to my 1960 timetable almost everything that went through PN stopped for around 3-5 minutes even without an engine change, and it wasn’t only PN. A train stopping at PN, Grantham Retford and Newark might easily have over 12or 13 minutes journey time standing at stations before it got to Doncaster. They weren’t all waiting for parcels, and any connecting services would be timed to arrive before the mainline train, and anyway it doesn’t take 5-6 minutes to load a few parcels in the guards van. I have no explanation for these long stops but I do sometimes wonder if it was just lethargy by those making the timetables. We spoke earlier about the effect on morale as a result of poor management in the ‘50’s. Were they just making the timetables on auto pilot because it had always been done that way with no thought for improvement ? It was certainly the case, for example that some trains on the Southern and Western were scheduled for stops of up to 10 minutes when milk churns had to be loaded then these long stops remained in the timetable for no good reason long after milk churn traffic ceased, because it never occurred to anybody to change it or maybe there was some obscure working directive that was never rescinded. I don’t suppose we will ever know the real answer but at a time of motorway building and loss of traffic to road transport it is rather surprising that so much time was wasted standing in stations. Another feature of the station stops - particularly of "Down" long distance trains - at Peterborough North, that sticks in my memory, were the attention of the "Wheel tappers" with their long hammers checking that each wheel was "Sound as a bell". This would occupy a number of minutes. Now most coach wheels are of the monobloc type and are subject to regular Ultrasonic or other "Non Destructive Testing" as part of depot maintenance - but in the 1950s most wheels had separate shrunk-on tyres and the availability of modern NDT methods (beyond the long-handled hammer and the wheel-tapper's ear) were well in the future. Regards Chris H 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzer Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 7 hours ago, great northern said: But it was a slower pace of life back then wasn' it? Besides which, main line trains could load up to 13 or more cars, and that meant at some stations they would have to pull up twice. That certainly happened at PN on the Down which could only hold 11. Then add in the fact that it was necessary to let down the window before opening the doors, and I can remember that could be fiddly and time consuming, and four minutes doesn't seem so unreasonable. Then we have splitting of portions, and addition of cars to services which were known to be full before getting to their next port of call, and of course some engine changing. As I recall, it was the addition of loads of recovery time which slowed things down, and gave crews little incentive to run hard. So have you answered your own question as to why Green Arrow was allowed a six minute stop when there was no need fo an engine change ? If, as you say , the engine only came on at Doncaster , the train would almost certainly have originated in Hull and and therefor is very unlikely to have been loaded to anything like 13 coaches , probably more like 9, hence V2 haulage unlike the heavier Leeds trains that usually had Pacific’s. I fully agree that if it came on at Doncaster it wouldn’t have been changed at PN. In fact there was at least one diagram where KX men rode “Down “ to Doncaster “on the cushions” and brought the afternoon Up train all the way back. Lots of speculation about “ station movements “ but I don’t think we’ll ever know the true answer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Popular Post great northern Posted January 27, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Popular Post Share Posted January 27, 2020 Culture shock! First golf with a new group who tee off just when I'm usually thinking about getting out of bed. Here is gleaming 60054 with the Up Ripon, while I continue trying to wake myself up. Oh yes, and before that 62530 was arriving at the old engine shed area, passing 61630 as it went. 36 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil.c Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 Phosphor bronze or painted steel rail? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John Isherwood Posted January 27, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 27, 2020 10 hours ago, 31A said: The narrative says "all within ten minutes". Sorry - I rarely put my earphones on when watching those Youtube clips. Regards, John Isherwood. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 31A Posted January 27, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 27, 2020 18 minutes ago, cctransuk said: Sorry - I rarely put my earphones on when watching those Youtube clips. Regards, John Isherwood. I'm the same - I usually have my computer on silent! I had watched the film on DVD on my television, before finding it on Youtube. However on this occasion it's worth listening as the narrative describes all the tasks that are undertaken during the train's station stop. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted January 27, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 27, 2020 On 26/01/2020 at 09:44, 31A said: Parcels. Probably Steve. Refreshments. Pathing. Comfort break. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted January 27, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 27, 2020 15 hours ago, great northern said: Time for the return of the empties from Little Barford, with our borrowed 04/8, running tender first now. We have two angles as it moves along the Down slow. Very poor light conditions, so black and white seems the best option. Great pictures there G. Really like them. P 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium great northern Posted January 27, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 27, 2020 Culture shock! First golf with a new group who tee off just when I'm usually thinking about getting out of bed. Here is gleaming 60054 with the Up Ripon, while I continue trying to wake myself up. Oh yes, and before that 62530 was arriving at the old engine shed area, passing 61630 as it went. 18 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium great northern Posted January 27, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 27, 2020 Don't know what happened this morning, which is when I thought I had posted the images above. Perhaps it was a bit too early in the day for me to function properly. Having played a full round of golf for the first time in three months, I am now somewhat fatigued, and shall shortly retire. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxUnpopuli Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 You did - you made an identical posting 14 hours previously. Looks like the post was still on your screen (or in your cache) even though you hit the 'submit' button. Not to worry. Nice shots as always, but the black&white ones are truly excellent. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium great northern Posted January 28, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 28, 2020 9 hours ago, FoxUnpopuli said: You did - you made an identical posting 14 hours previously. Looks like the post was still on your screen (or in your cache) even though you hit the 'submit' button. Not to worry. Nice shots as always, but the black&white ones are truly excellent. Ah well, I was very tired, and forgot that I should never believe what a computer told me. Nor could I be ar*ed to go back to the previous page and check. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Popular Post great northern Posted January 28, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Popular Post Share Posted January 28, 2020 Now for pictures I am reasonably sure you haven't seen before. The first does feature the same engine, but from a different angle. Then we have Dante with the lunchtime York parcels. 31 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil.c Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 On 27/01/2020 at 08:06, phil.c said: Phosphor bronze or painted steel rail? When I bought SMP many years ago there was a choice of either Phosphor Bronze or nickel silver. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted January 28, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 28, 2020 I am slightly concerned at the pair of Southern parcels vans looking a little lost across turnouts. At least the signalman can keep an eye on them, I suppose. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium great northern Posted January 28, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 28, 2020 5 minutes ago, Oldddudders said: I am slightly concerned at the pair of Southern parcels vans looking a little lost across turnouts. At least the signalman can keep an eye on them, I suppose. The shunting move will be completed very shortly Ian. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium great northern Posted January 28, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 28, 2020 2 hours ago, phil.c said: When I bought SMP many years ago there was a choice of either Phosphor Bronze or nickel silver. Ten years since Norman did the track Phil, and by sheer coincidence I've recently deleted all the correspondence we had at the time. My memory says nickel silver, but it isn't totally reliable these days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil.c Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 It's difficult to tell in the pictures as it could have been Phosphor bronze which doesn't need painting and gets darker by age, the rails in Pen-Y-Bryn are all unpainted, parts of the ballast however is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Popular Post great northern Posted January 28, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Popular Post Share Posted January 28, 2020 Those of you who also frequent Wright Writes will be aware that I am gradually posting rather a lot of photos of LB which I took last week. Tony has kindly said I can put some on here as well, so here goes. This must have been taken around 1956, which is when New England briefly provided the power for the Down Scotsman. The Wolf has the job on this day. A similar shot has appeared on WW, and on that one I managed to get a pole sticking out of the loco's chimney. We moved the train on a little and avoided that problem, but succeeded in getting a tree growing there instead. 24 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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