Peterborough North

[New Haven Neil]

I have just passed through Peterborough North, hauled by an A4 - '7 too.  Hit 112 on the way back south too, impressive.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

OK< listening to 'Triumph of an A4', one of the Peter Handford recordings, headphones on and volume up.  I was ON that train. Bliss.

[Liam]

http://danevansphotography.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Didcot_day_15_BW.jpg

 

In this photo you can just imagine the gentle sounds of the locos being shunted and the smell of smoke and steam. Sadly I wasn't around to witness it as part of daily life.

[Fenman]

Thanks Paul, very interesting, and that sent me back to the WTT again. The Up Newcastle was booked to pass at 1241, and at the same time the Doncaster stopper was booked to join the main line at Werrington Junction. That train then occupied the sole Up line until it arrived at PN at 1247, and then had to be emptied and removed. Then there was another Up Newcastle MWThO which passed through at 1257, followed by the M&GN service four minutes later. So, as you say, if the Kings Lynn ran early, there would be no problem on Tuesdays and Fridays, but still a big one on the other three days. We know there were often trains queuing up during the summer to get through the bottleneck, and this shows why.

...

 

In a quiet moment I found the reference I was thinking of - in The District Controller's View of the M&GN, p.58:

 

"the 12.42 [Yarmouth to Peterborough] can leave South Lynn no less than 13 minutes late yet reach Peterborough on time because of a paper clash with the 08.35 Glasgow to King's Cross - which itself has eighteen (!) minutes recovery time between Doncaster and London - at Peterborough. With these lavish amounts of recovery ... the chances of the two trains coming within five minutes of each other at Peterborough are remote and the D16 and its train usually arrives in Peterborough North the best part of a quarter of an hour before time".

 

Again, that's from a slightly earlier period (1951/52), so things may have changed by your timeframe.

 

Operation Norfolk reflects on some of the M&GN's extraordinarily generous timings - eg, p.51, 16.21 King's Lynn to Nottingham: 

 

the train "took a very languid eighteen minutes to reverse at Spalding ... further down the line the service idled away eleven minutes at Bourne". It then goes on to note that at Melton Mowbray it "went from being one of the slowest trains east of the Trent to one of the fastest on the Midland system". It notes that the train took over 3.5 hours to cover 72 miles.

 

Those odd contradictions are why I find the M&GN endlessly fascinating.

 

Paul

[stewartingram]

For quick turnrounds you can't do better than the Liverpool Street Jazz service. N7 waiting to back on the other end as the train arrives. Loco uncouples/replacement on the other end, and away. I forget thge times, but very rapid and well published in books. Anyone add the details?

 

Stewart

Edited May 29, 2017 by stewartingram

[jwealleans]

Four minute turnarounds, weren't they?

[great northern]

Another meeting done, head banged against wall, didn't hurt much. Back to railways, thank goodness, and another shot of the M&GN arrival under the roof. These are always "point it and see what happens" shots, and this one isn't quite sharp, but never mind.

On the Down side, the 1040 KX- Grantham arrives , and will stop for some time. At last we have a refuge platform in this direction, so the down main remains clear.

If there had been drones in 1958, this would have been taken from one.

[chaz]

533 1.JPG

If there had been drones in 1958, this would have been taken from one.

 

 

Golly, that's got to be illegal, a drone that low and that close to a moving train. Where are the BTP when you need 'em?

 

Chaz

 

Mind you I know which would come off worst if the drone were to collide with the train

Edited May 25, 2017 by chaz

[great northern]

Golly, that's got to be illegal, a drone that low and that close to a moving train. Where are the BTP when you need 'em?

 

Chaz

 

Mind you I know which would come off worst if the drone were to collide with the train

It's all right Chaz, it's only a virtual drone.

[great northern]

York bound today, but golfing, not railways. Nice day for it. Another shot of the arriving Grantham.

Nice busy scene, no photoshopping, and minimal cropping, just the layout as it is.

 

And then we come at last to what Tim has been eagerly anticipating.

Time for the Up Yorkshire Pullman. Until now I have had to cheat by running the Tees-Tyne stock twice, as we have been edging towards getting the full Yorkshire 11 car rake completed. It's still not quite done, but we are up to 10, and it is absolutely beautiful. This was the last of Tim's goodies when he visited recently. I shall feature it car by car shortly.but probably tomorrow, and then between the two of us give you the full story of how this was researched and brought inot being.

[Liam]

Gilbert, where abouts in York are you going to?

[landscapes]

York bound today, but golfing, not railways. Nice day for it. Another shot of the arriving Grantham.

533 2.JPG

Nice busy scene, no photoshopping, and minimal cropping, just the layout as it is.

 

And then we come at last to what Tim has been eagerly anticipating.

YP 1.JPG

Time for the Up Yorkshire Pullman. Until now I have had to cheat by running the Tees-Tyne stock twice, as we have been edging towards getting the full Yorkshire 11 car rake completed. It's still not quite done, but we are up to 10, and it is absolutely beautiful. This was the last of Tim's goodies when he visited recently. I shall feature it car by car shortly.but probably tomorrow, and then between the two of us give you the full story of how this was researched and brought inot being.

 

Hi Gilbert

 

Nice set of photos showing A2 Happy Knight heading North through PN, may I ask you who's water cranes you used in the last photo of 60533 and do you know if they still available to the best of your knowledge.

 

Regards

 

David

[trw1089]

Good to see Happy Knight coming into shot. I must get me one of those just so I can legitimately run a Peppercorn A2 through Wakefield. I'll be very interested in your coach by coach description of the Yorkshire Pullman.

 

Cheers

Tony

[New Haven Neil]

Happy Night Knight was my retirement present from my old job, always have a soft spot for her/him.

[CUTLER2579]

Gilbert, where abouts in York are you going to?

 

A Golf Course perhaps.  

[Liam]

But I hope he won't spend all his time trying to pot the 19th hole!

[great northern]

Hi Gilbert

 

Nice set of photos showing A2 Happy Knight heading North through PN, may I ask you who's water cranes you used in the last photo of 60533 and do you know if they still available to the best of your knowledge.

 

Regards

 

David

Mike's Models David, and I have one or two spare, if you would like them.

[Liam]

I was in North Yorkshire today as well Gilbert and I don't know about you but I think there was a heatwave!

[great northern]

Another day of appaliing golf. I'm beginning to feel that I never want to see another golf ball, let alone hit one (in the wrong direction, of course). Here are two more pictures of the approaching Yorkshire Pullman. I'll post the pictures of individual cars tomorrow.

 

[landscapes]

Mike's Models David, and I have one or two spare, if you would like them.

 

Hi Gilbert

 

Many thanks, I have sent you a PM in the RMWeb messenger.

 

Also would you happen to know The reference number for the water cranes you have used from Mikes Models as I will need quite a lot of them.

 

Regards

 

David

Edited May 26, 2017 by landscapes

[31A]

Hi David,

 

I think the water crane you want is Mike's Models MM26, to save Gilbert looking:

 

http://www.holtmodelrailways.com/search.php?search=mikes

 

Cheers,

Steve

[allan downes]

Does any body know whether or not Mike Sharman is still around ? I lost contact with him years ago when he lived in Cirencester I think it was.

 

 

Thanks.

 

 

Allan

[great northern]

OK, as promised, a feature on the Yorkshire Pullman. Once I had decided that it was an essential, and set aside a storage road for it, Tim and I spent a lot of time on research before coming up with a reasonably balanced rake. There is always room for speculation as to the correct ratio of 1928 to 1925 cars in ECML rakes by my period, so I had to disappoint Tim a little, as he wanted to do some complex cut and shuts to make 1925 oddities, while I was happy to have a majority of K class cars, which also came out cheaper. Compromise won, as always.

 

We were originally going to do upgrades of Hornby Railroad as we did with the Tees-Tyne set, but then came the announcement of the new K class cars. So, just get some of those, and renumber/name them as necessary. Simples. Until Tim tried to remove the original lettering. Immoveable by all known means. Much cursing, followed by Tim taking them away to try to find a solution. That took some time, but as always, he won in the end. I'll leave him to explain the technical side of things. All I know is that I have some beautifully finished and matched cars, with a lovely depth of correct colour and sheen. They are so lovely to look at that I just ran the train round and round for ages, something I very rarely if ever do. It was all very much worth waiting for, and now, here it is.

Second brake Car 63, a 1925 car. Tim will supply the full details, I'm sure. This one was much used in ECML rakes in my period.

First kitchen Loraine. 1928 car, renamed.

First parlour, Lucille, again 1928 renamed.

Second kitchen 70, one of the original 1928 cars. That completes the Hull portion of the train, detached at Doncaster of course, so Tony, you have a cheaper option than I did when it comes to Wakefield.

 

Now we come to the one missing car, which Tim still has to complete, second kitchen 106, a 1925 car which requires rather more work. That will slot in when Tim next visits. That and the next car down, Agatha, formed the Bradford portion.

First Parlour Agatha, always in one of the rakes, 1928 again.

Second Parlour 66, an interesting one. One of two built in 1925, and definitely still matchboard sides in 1958. Hornby did it, so as again I have good evidence of it in ECML sets, it was a nice option.

First kitchen Lydia, another 1928 K class.

First kitchen Fingall, a 1925 car, but long a resident in ECML rakes. I remember it well, as I never could fathom out what a Fingall might be. I was only 12 though.

Second kitchen 67, another of the original 1928 K class cars for the ECML.

Second brake 78, another 1928 original.

 

The last five were the jolly posh Harrogate portion. All this, by the way, is the official formation for weekdays in the 1958 book. Saturday was slightly different. Cars 67 and 70 were remodelled to become brakes in 1959/60, but are right for 1958, all part of the joys of the Pullman minefield.

 

Take into account that we also had to factor in the cars that are already in my Tees-Tyne and Queen of Scots rakes, and make sure there were no duplications, and it really was an interesting project. There is far less observed data for the Yorkshire than for the other two sets too, so there has to be a bit of guess work. I think a seven to four ratio of all steel to 1925 cars is about right though.

 

Over to you, Tim!

 

 

[Liam]

OK, as promised, a feature on the Yorkshire Pullman. Once I had decided that it was an essential, and set aside a storage road for it, Tim and I spent a lot of time on research before coming up with a reasonably balanced rake. There is always room for speculation as to the correct ratio of 1928 to 1925 cars in ECML rakes by my period, so I had to disappoint Tim a little, as he wanted to do some complex cut and shuts to make 1925 oddities, while I was happy to have a majority of K class cars, which also came out cheaper. Compromise won, as always.

 

We were originally going to do upgrades of Hornby Railroad as we did with the Tees-Tyne set, but then came the announcement of the new K class cars. So, just get some of those, and renumber/name them as necessary. Simples. Until Tim tried to remove the original lettering. Immoveable by all known means. Much cursing, followed by Tim taking them away to try to find a solution. That took some time, but as always, he won in the end. I'll leave him to explain the technical side of things. All I know is that I have some beautifully finished and matched cars, with a lovely depth of correct colour and sheen. They are so lovely to look at that I just ran the train round and round for ages, something I very rarely if ever do. It was all very much worth waiting for, and now, here it is.

1.JPG

Second brake Car 63, a 1925 car. Tim will supply the full details, I'm sure. This one was much used in ECML rakes in my period.

2.JPG

First kitchen Loraine. 1928 car, renamed.

3.JPG

First parlour, Lucille, again 1928 renamed.

4.JPG

Second kitchen 70, one of the original 1928 cars. That completes the Hull portion of the train, detached at Doncaster of course, so Tony, you have a cheaper option than I did when it comes to Wakefield.

 

Now we come to the one missing car, which Tim still has to complete, second kitchen 106, a 1925 car which requires rather more work. That will slot in when Tim next visits. That and the next car down, Agatha, formed the Bradford portion.

5.JPG

First Parlour Agatha, always in one of the rakes, 1928 again.

6.JPG

Second Parlour 66, an interesting one. One of two built in 1925, and definitely still matchboard sides in 1958. Hornby did it, so as again I have good evidence of it in ECML sets, it was a nice option.

7.JPG

First kitchen Lydia, another 1928 K class.

8.JPG

First kitchen Fingall, a 1925 car, but long a resident in ECML rakes. I remember it well, as I never could fathom out what a Fingall might be. I was only 12 though.

9.JPG

Second kitchen 67, another of the original 1928 K class cars for the ECML.

10.JPG

Second brake 78, another 1928 original.

 

The last five were the jolly posh Harrogate portion. All this, by the way, is the official formation for weekdays in the 1958 book. Saturday was slightly different. Cars 67 and 70 were remodelled to become brakes in 1959/60, but are right for 1958, all part of the joys of the Pullman minefield.

 

Take into account that we also had to factor in the cars that are already in my Tees-Tyne and Queen of Scots rakes, and make sure there were no duplications, and it really was an interesting project. There is far less observed data for the Yorkshire than for the other two sets too, so there has to be a bit of guess work. I think a seven to four ratio of all steel to 1925 cars is about right though.

 

Over to you, Tim!

Did anyone hear that one built in 1927 travelled through the Channel Tunnel a few weeks ago? It was going from London to Clermont - Ferrand after delivering bottles of Volvic bottled water. But what's wrong with Highland Spring or Buxton?

[Timara]

OK, as promised, a feature on the Yorkshire Pullman. Once I had decided that it was an essential, and set aside a storage road for it, Tim and I spent a lot of time on research before coming up with a reasonably balanced rake. There is always room for speculation as to the correct ratio of 1928 to 1925 cars in ECML rakes by my period, so I had to disappoint Tim a little, as he wanted to do some complex cut and shuts to make 1925 oddities, while I was happy to have a majority of K class cars, which also came out cheaper. Compromise won, as always.

Indeed I did! However, the more I looked at things and indeed remembering how long Car 32 took to create, I was far more amenable to compromise! I still fancy making Car 162 (Brake parlour, converted from 1925 kitchen car) at some point, but that's another story altogether!

 

We were originally going to do upgrades of Hornby Railroad as we did with the Tees-Tyne set, but then came the announcement of the new K class cars. So, just get some of those, and renumber/name them as necessary. Simples. Until Tim tried to remove the original lettering. Immoveable by all known means. Much cursing, followed by Tim taking them away to try to find a solution. That took some time, but as always, he won in the end. I'll leave him to explain the technical side of things. <snipped>

I have to be honest when I say that, of all the projects I've worked on for PN, these Pullman cars were one of the most taxing on my brain.  As Gilbert says, the printing on the coach sides was the very pig to remove and would not come off with conventional removal methods.  I *think* I got down to about Plan E, before I was happy enough to proceed with things and get the end result I was happy with.

 

All printing was scraped off with a fresh curved scalpel blade; it wasn't much of an issue if some paintwork was damaged in the process, providing the blade didn't dig into the bodyside.  Once I was happy with this, I masked off the area between the upper and lower lining top-to-bottom and the three main window panels side-to-side; these were airbrushed in a mix of Railmatch BR Falcon grey and Phoenix LBSC Marsh lining brown (yes, that's what worked!) in order to blend in with what was already there.  You only really need a thin mist over; enough to hide all printing removal and to blend in with the original bodywork.  Paint masks were cut in old envelopes and fixed in place, so it was all done in a batch.  New transfers in the form of the HMRS Pullman sheet were applied in the correct places afterwards, which is the easy bit!

 

Parlour brake second Car 63 is, as Gilbert says, a regular ECML car.  A simple renumber on this one really, though I had to change the crests etc over to pre-1960 style.  Which reminds me; must sort out those on Lydia and Fingall when I'm next over to complete the set!

 

I do believe Loraine is as bought, without a renumber.  The previous Loraine (which was in the QoS rake) got renamed to Joan (I think!).

 

Once I finish it, Car 106 will be the only heavily rebuilt car in the entire rake.  This started life as a standard Hornby 1925 kitchen car, but with two window areas filled in with plasticard and replacement oval windows carefully cut in.  This one requires the cream matching the Hornby shade, which isn't an easy job either!  It's almost there....

 

As I've said before, there's a certain something about a decent Pullman rake and I'm rather pleased to have been able to create this one, with Gilbert's invaluable assistance with the various books and photos back and forth.  In retrospect, a ratio of 6 to 5 (1928 to 1925) cars is about right.  Photos occasionally show an opposite ratio, but it's generally more all-steel ones in the main.

 

Anyway, there we go; the "how to"!

Tim

Edited May 26, 2017 by Tim

[thegreenhowards]

Indeed I did! However, the more I looked at things and indeed remembering how long Car 32 took to create, I was far more amenable to compromise! I still fancy making Car 162 (Brake parlour, converted from 1925 kitchen car) at some point, but that's another story altogether!

 

I have to be honest when I say that, of all the projects I've worked on for PN, these Pullman cars were one of the most taxing on my brain.  As Gilbert says, the printing on the coach sides was the very pig to remove and would not come off with conventional removal methods.  I *think* I got down to about Plan E, before I was happy enough to proceed with things and get the end result I was happy with.

 

All printing was scraped off with a fresh curved scalpel blade; it wasn't much of an issue if some paintwork was damaged in the process, providing the blade didn't dig into the bodyside.  Once I was happy with this, I masked off the area between the upper and lower lining top-to-bottom and the three main window panels side-to-side; these were airbrushed in a mix of Railmatch BR Falcon grey and Phoenix LBSC Marsh lining brown (yes, that's what worked!) in order to blend in with what was already there.  You only really need a thin mist over; enough to hide all printing removal and to blend in with the original bodywork.  Paint masks were cut in old envelopes and fixed in place, so it was all done in a batch.  New transfers in the form of the HMRS Pullman sheet were applied in the correct places afterwards, which is the easy bit!

 

Parlour brake second Car 63 is, as Gilbert says, a regular ECML car.  A simple renumber on this one really, though I had to change the crests etc over to pre-1960 style.  Which reminds me; must sort out those on Lydia and Fingall when I'm next over to complete the set!

 

I do believe Loraine is as bought, without a renumber.  The previous Loraine (which was in the QoS rake) got renamed to Joan (I think!).

 

Once I finish it, Car 106 will be the only heavily rebuilt car in the entire rake.  This started life as a standard Hornby 1925 kitchen car, but with two window areas filled in with plasticard and replacement oval windows carefully cut in.  This one requires the cream matching the Hornby shade, which isn't an easy job either!  It's almost there....

 

As I've said before, there's a certain something about a decent Pullman rake and I'm rather pleased to have been able to create this one, with Gilbert's invaluable assistance with the various books and photos back and forth.  In retrospect, a ratio of 6 to 5 (1928 to 1925) cars is about right.  Photos occasionally show an opposite ratio, but it's generally more all-steel ones in the main.

 

Anyway, there we go; the "how to"!

Tim

Tim, Gilbert,

 

A lovely and inspirational rake.  I really appreciate seeing the coaches behind the engines (as you know!). The roofs all look very consistent in weathering whereas the Hornby originals will (I think) have varied between pristine white, through off white to dark grey. How did you achieve the uniform weathering?

 

Andy