Flying Scotsman at Locomotion.

[Hairy Bear Digital]

Old Scotty has now arrived at Shildon.

There until 7th Jan.

[KeithMacdonald]

Is it there for more repairs? Or has the repairs budget been exhausted and it can (finally) become a static museum piece?

[Wheatley]

It's there as part of the pre-planned (and long advertised) centenary celebrations.

 

https://mechtraveller.com/2023/07/flying-scotsman-trips-in-2023-100th-anniversary/

Edited December 15, 2023 by Wheatley

[willjam39]

Although there has been a statement which says the NRM are reviewing what to do with Scotsman as its deal with Riley's comes to an end at the end of Dec. So be interesting to see if she is to be retired to heritage lines only. 

[MarkC]

On 18/12/2023 at 09:20, willjam39 said:

Although there has been a statement which says the NRM are reviewing what to do with Scotsman as its deal with Riley's comes to an end at the end of Dec. So be interesting to see if she is to be retired to heritage lines only. 

Indeed - which makes one wonder if the SMG are softening us up for pulling the plug, now that her centenary year is coming to an end.

 

Which will make certain folk very happy, of course...

 

Mark

[rab]

Does this mean she's earned enough to cover the cost of the last overhaul. :)

[Reorte]

On 19/12/2023 at 15:05, MarkC said:

Indeed - which makes one wonder if the SMG are softening us up for pulling the plug, now that her centenary year is coming to an end.

 

Which will make certain folk very happy, of course...

I've got nothing against the loco, would love to see her keep running. But the amount of hype, and the type of people who turn up and act like pillocks has certainly got offputting enough that I'm starting to think being off the main line would be no bad thing.

[RichardT]

Alternatively we could put the tin foil hats away and instead surmise that, as Riley’s maintain & operate contract is now in its end stages, a re-tender will be necessary - in the public sector procurement rules mean there’ll be no question of an automatic renewal/extension for a contract of this value. As economic conditions have drastically changed since the original ten year contract was agreed there’s almost certainly some hard re-thinking/negotiating happening on all sides which will take some time and which will be being conducted in (commercial) confidence.

But as many people are aware of the imminent contract expiry the SMG has felt compelled to issue a non-committal “holding pattern” press release factually outlining the current position and immediate future plans in order to address what would otherwise be uncontrolled enthusiast frothing about the future of FS.

 

Such a release has to be worded in such a way as not to make commitments that might affect contract negotiations, so it inevitably has to be bland.

 

RichardT

Edited December 21, 2023 by RichardT
Clarity

[rab]

Just struck me that this thread title is a bit of a contradiction:

 

FS usually causes a lot of "commotion",

rarely is there "low-commotion" about it   :)  :)

Edited December 23, 2023 by rab

[Bucoops]

35 minutes ago, rab said:

Just struck me that this thread title is a bit of an contradiction:

 

FS usually causes a lot of "commotion",

rarely is there "low-commotion" about it   :)  :)

 

🛑

[adb968008]

If it had an overhaul in 2016 and a boiler overhaul in 2022, does that mean its good until 2029 ? (7 years ?).

if so retiring it 2 years in would seem wasteful.

 

Who else could look after Scotsman ?

Rileys, WCRC, LSL any one else ?

[PhilH]

When I was involved in Hosking's organisation before 'the people' bought FS he was definitely interested in adding it to the LSL stable and I believe made an offer for the thing. It could therefore be a possibility that LSL could take over stewardship of it in the same way, I believe, they now run 60007, or have run it, on behalf of the owners of that machine. 

[25901]

On 31/12/2023 at 21:15, adb968008 said:

If it had an overhaul in 2016 and a boiler overhaul in 2022, does that mean its good until 2029 ? (7 years ?).

if so retiring it 2 years in would seem wasteful.

 

Who else could look after Scotsman ?

Rileys, WCRC, LSL any one else ?

Think Ian is looking for an easy life these days

[G-BOAF]

So Scotsman has a new custodian, but nothing is being done with it. It's now scheduled to be at Sheldon again operating brake van rides for a good chunk of the summer

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.railadvent.co.uk/2024/07/flying-scotsman-to-visit-shildon-for-four-weeks.html/amp

 

Since the new management contract was awarded there have been NO heritage line visits and NO railtours. I'm going to guess there may be no mainline running for the whole of 2024 given the lead time in planning is and the fact that nothing has been announced thus far.

If we assume £500k for a 7 year overhaul (low but assuming it's in good condition and not overworked) that equates to around £70k of ticket wasted, to say nothing of the lost income of running during that time

 

What is going on?

Edited July 11 by G-BOAF

[stewartingram]

It couldn't be used until the new contract came in, not long ago. So fair enough on that. It is being used in steam, at Shildon, where probably more people see it than on a day trip or a short heritage line visit.

You could say that the letting of the new contract was delayed, and why not renew the old one? But in my experience when working in the Home Office, that NEVER happened. Supposedly done in fairness to everyone, a new supplier was chosen. For instance, onene contract we had for vehicles,Ford supplied them, the next we had Leylands, etc. It is possible the old contract had to run out before the bidding started, but I don't know.

[G-BOAF]

4 hours ago, stewartingram said:

It couldn't be used until the new contract came in, not long ago. So fair enough on that. It is being used in steam, at Shildon, where probably more people see it than on a day trip or a short heritage line visit.

You could say that the letting of the new contract was delayed, and why not renew the old one? But in my experience when working in the Home Office, that NEVER happened. Supposedly done in fairness to everyone, a new supplier was chosen. For instance, onene contract we had for vehicles,Ford supplied them, the next we had Leylands, etc. It is possible the old contract had to run out before the bidding started, but I don't know.

I mean the key question is why wasn't the contract put to tender in time for a seamless transition. But indeed why not have a 'temporary bridging contract' with old supplier until new one is up and running. Surely this is better than wasting assets??? 

Never happened with the NRM operated it's own locos of course (albeit with substantial volunteer  input)

[Wheatley]

3 minutes ago, G-BOAF said:

Never happened with the NRM operated it's own locos of course (albeit with substantial volunteer  input)

There was only one 'TOC ' qualified to operate steam locos on the national network (BR Special Trains Unit), and only one supplier (SLOA) which made life rather easier. 

 

There's nothing in ROGS to stop NRM applying for a Safety Certificate and running trains in their own right. They just need all the traincrew and engineering competence management, engineering compliance, rolling stock acceptance, insurance, operational risk assessment , timetabling, planning, recovery,  crew, CSM sign off and pathing resources in place first. So that'll be a no. 

[G-BOAF]

6 hours ago, Wheatley said:

There was only one 'TOC ' qualified to operate steam locos on the national network (BR Special Trains Unit), and only one supplier (SLOA) which made life rather easier. 

 

There's nothing in ROGS to stop NRM applying for a Safety Certificate and running trains in their own right. They just need all the traincrew and engineering competence management, engineering compliance, rolling stock acceptance, insurance, operational risk assessment , timetabling, planning, recovery,  crew, CSM sign off and pathing resources in place first. So that'll be a no. 

 

I wasn't referring to the 1980s I was referring to 2006 when Green Arrow was operated and maintained by the NRM (albeit by wcrc crew on the mainline and using wcrc safety case). Memories can't be that short can they???

 

This has all now been contracted out I'm a way that sees a perfectly serviceable loco not doing any decent running for 7% and counting of its ML cert.