57xx Pannier Tank Family, By Accurascale

[Csalem]

6 hours ago, Delta_Who said:

I think there is a certain selection of Montague fans who would have ordered the model with that colour regardless as a limited run 🤣. Nevertheless, looking good!

Indeed. I do wonder if it was a "deliberate" mistake ☺️

[Gaz101]

Very much looking forward to these!

 

Have just been looking for photos of London Transport (second) L.91 (ex No. 5757). Found one of it looking very clean in Nov 1961 (i.e. not that long after it joined the LT fleet) by Michael Allen on page 72 of 'London Underground Steam' (Kevin McCormack; Ian Allan publishing). A few differences in livery details from the Accurascale decorated samples include:

• the dome (especially) and safety valve cover (probably) looking to be black rather than LT red/maroon.
• the tankside lining extending more along the length of the tank in both directions, i.e. the uprights being much closer to the cab front and the front end.
• the presence of an overhead live-wire warning flash on the cab front.

Hope that helps. This model's looking fantastic.

[TravisM]

4 hours ago, G-BOAF said:

Are you able to show us an example (I only have Met Maroon model)

If I had both to show you but I sold them (I had no12 in Metropolitan maroon and 5 in LT red), to concentrate on my St Bees layout 

[Steve Purves]

Don't worry guys, remember these are just decorated samples and revisions are still to be made to colours and other details. Really enjoying the positive feedback so far!

Steve

[Tiny151]

45 minutes ago, Steve Purves said:

Don't worry guys, remember these are just decorated samples and revisions are still to be made to colours and other details. Really enjoying the positive feedback so far!

Steve

Great to hear, Steve. They look stunning. I'll avoid wading into the red debate, but a few thoughts on L94 if I may. In the pictures I have of the mainline period, I can't find the warning flashes without also having black cab steps, a fully red handrail around the smokebox and diamond plates on the front splashers. Maybe tweaks already on the list, or perhaps just not right for the moment in time you've chosen, but thought them worth a mention!

[Steve Purves]

29 minutes ago, Tiny151 said:

Great to hear, Steve. They look stunning. I'll avoid wading into the red debate, but a few thoughts on L94 if I may. In the pictures I have of the mainline period, I can't find the warning flashes without also having black cab steps, a fully red handrail around the smokebox and diamond plates on the front splashers. Maybe tweaks already on the list, or perhaps just not right for the moment in time you've chosen, but thought them worth a mention!

 

Good sleuthing! The report for that one was written yesterday and included all of those fixes, as well as a few more (including the colour of the cab interior and back wall)

There's an interesting story to tell on the red colour, especially for L94 but that's for another day...

 

[SRman]

I decided to take a few photos of all of my LT locomotives (apart from the green Sentinel diesel) to compare liveries. Some represent "in service" liveries, while the rest represent preserved and/or modern liveries. There is some variation in shades evident, with only the oldest Bachmann pannier being obviously too dark. The last photo was taken with my extra layout lighting switched off, just to see how much, or how little, the lighting in my room affects the apparent colours.

I have a couple of comments that I don't intend to stir any controversy with, but I suggest do bear thinking about:

1. People quite often confuse LT train red and bus red. Train red was darker than bus red, with bus red being used on train repaints from around 1973.

2. In service, the locomotives often got a darker patina from dirt, soot and oil. A few modellers on RMweb have posted photos elsewhere of their pannier tanks weathered beautifully to represent this patina. I only hope I can reproduce this at some time in the future, but maybe not on the Accurascale L94, which represents a preserved locomotive, so will mainly remain clean.

 

I hope these are not too inappropriate for this Accurascale topic. Hopefully, the Bachmann panniers will highlight how much of an improvement the new models will be over these.

 

 

 

 

 

[Hal Nail]

33 minutes ago, SRman said:

2. In service, the locomotives often got a darker patina from dirt, soot and oil

 

Very apparent in all the photos I've seen - I've no idea what the suggestion they faded to light pink was based on.

Whilst you should never model a model, this works for me! (Masterpiece 7mm, their photo)

 

 

Edited September 13 by Hal Nail

[G-BOAF]

41 minutes ago, Steve Purves said:

 

Good sleuthing! The report for that one was written yesterday and included all of those fixes, as well as a few more (including the colour of the cab interior and back wall)

There's an interesting story to tell on the red colour, especially for L94 but that's for another day...

 

I was wondering whether to say something on the cab interior colour

It should of course be Green I presume

 

I was thinking about the L94 LT livery yesterday. The whole loco was clearly 'prepped' to receive GWR green, including its cab interior. I wonder if LT Red was supposed to last as long as it did? I presume the reason why the wheels and rods were not painted was that they didn't want to have the bother of repainting them (potentially involving partial dismantling of motion etc) and also having to strip paint off the rods. Ditto with the brass safety valve bonnet.

It was a bit of a shame since L92, also repainted in the same period, had the full job with wheels and rods and brass painted red.

[Captain Kernow]

The whole 'LT red livery' debate, plus perusal of the AS pannier photos on here and their website has taught me a small but (to me) interesting lesson - I thought that all 57XX panniers (ie. those with the earlier, lower cab, so not of the 8750 type of design) featured the older type of footstep on the front of the pannier tanks.

 

I also thought that all of the 8750 types would only feature the later type of footstep in this location.

 

However, I was surprised to see the pre-production version of L96 (former 7741) - a 'traditional' 57XX with older, lower cab - featuring the more modern type of front tank footstep. I then looked into it in more depth (OK, I had another look at the relevant copy of the Pannier Papers, plus Red Panniers) and found that other 57XXs also had this type of more modern footstep, but still not that many.

 

I still found no examples of 8750 panniers having the older type of footstep.

 

I wonder if this came about due to the pannier tanks themselves being swapped between locos on Works visits?

 

Either way, it's an object lesson in terms of adding extra detail to ones Bachmann panniers. Best to work from an actual photo and (if, like me, you do find an actual photo of your chosen loco), you should look at it properly!!

 

As such, having seen a more modern front tank footstep on one other 57XX displayed by AS, I am confident that they have really done their homework when it comes to the minor details on the various locos they are depicting.

 

A cautionary tale, however, if you are planning on buying one of the new AS panniers and renumbering it - check that your chosen loco 'fits the bill!'

 

Or, forget all about front tank footsteps, if you are not bothered by it, it's hardly one of the significant issues affecting our hobby, is it?! 😉

 

[Compound2632]

10 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

I wonder if this came about due to the pannier tanks themselves being swapped between locos on Works visits?

 

That sounds very plausible but gets close to the dangerous question of what constitutes the identity of a locomotive...

[Tiny151]

32 minutes ago, Steve Purves said:

 

Good sleuthing! The report for that one was written yesterday and included all of those fixes, as well as a few more (including the colour of the cab interior and back wall)

There's an interesting story to tell on the red colour, especially for L94 but that's for another day...

 

Cheers Steve, delighted to hear these are all in hand. Other observations you probably also already have, the tank lining sits outside the front handrail knob in my images, the spectacle surrounds are polished rather than painted and the edge of the running board looks to be black. Finally, there's the slightest black trim to the lining on the toolbox lid, but appreciate that one might be asking too much!

 

Observations from a long time spent painting up the Bachmann LT museum exclusive into this condition a while back, though undoubtedly nothing compared to the hours you've poured over this for.

 

Look forward to hearing the story of the red!

[The Stationmaster]

4 hours ago, Steve Purves said:

Don't worry guys, remember these are just decorated samples and revisions are still to be made to colours and other details. Really enjoying the positive feedback so far!

Steve

As a matter of interest Steve will there be different backheads in the cab for 57XX and 8750?

[Erixtar1992]

Will have to see which one fits better for a croxley tip train, as my layout extension has the entrance to it included. 
look pretty good i think.

 

some train reporting numbers in the detail bag would be a big winner if possible. Maybe the ‘last steam on the underground’ headboard?

[Goodnight Sweetheart]

Are both the LT panniers suitable for the steam on LT period ? I noticed one has modern OLE flashes, and doesn’t appear to have a tripcock so I’m assuming only one is correct for the LT period ?

 

Also the three link coupling on the NCB loco looks rather poor with gaps in the links, will this be looked at as this locos front and rear is quite bare in ncb service so the three link is very noticeable. 

 

Cheers

Edited September 13 by Goodnight Sweetheart

[Hal Nail]

1 hour ago, Goodnight Sweetheart said:

Are both the LT panniers suitable for the steam on LT period ?

Their announcement (2 pages back or so) details what they represent.

Edited September 13 by Hal Nail

[chrisjwarnes]

In the original announcement, 7714 was going to have a Matt smoke box, is that something that will only come out in the final examples? I was expecting to see it in these ones since It had been announced. 

[Steve Purves]

3 minutes ago, chrisjwarnes said:

In the original announcement, 7714 was going to have a Matt smoke box, is that something that will only come out in the final examples? I was expecting to see it in these ones since It had been announced. 

That is one of the few correction requests to the factory for 7714. 

I was too!

[No Decorum]

On 13/09/2024 at 09:05, SRman said:

I decided to take a few photos of all of my LT locomotives (apart from the green Sentinel diesel) to compare liveries. Some represent "in service" liveries, while the rest represent preserved and/or modern liveries. There is some variation in shades evident, with only the oldest Bachmann pannier being obviously too dark. The last photo was taken with my extra layout lighting switched off, just to see how much, or how little, the lighting in my room affects the apparent colours.

I have a couple of comments that I don't intend to stir any controversy with, but I suggest do bear thinking about:

1. People quite often confuse LT train red and bus red. Train red was darker than bus red, with bus red being used on train repaints from around 1973.

2. In service, the locomotives often got a darker patina from dirt, soot and oil. A few modellers on RMweb have posted photos elsewhere of their pannier tanks weathered beautifully to represent this patina. I only hope I can reproduce this at some time in the future, but maybe not on the Accurascale L94, which represents a preserved locomotive, so will mainly remain clean.

 

I hope these are not too inappropriate for this Accurascale topic. Hopefully, the Bachmann panniers will highlight how much of an improvement the new models will be over these.

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting. The lining on the darker Pannier looks thicker than on the other. That takes me back years to a comment from Hornby that if lining were thinner, it would be difficult to see. I always thought it was sales talk attempting to justify an inability to print finer lining.

[Michael Hodgson]

On 13/09/2024 at 09:05, SRman said:

I have a couple of comments that I don't intend to stir any controversy with, but I suggest do bear thinking about:

1. People quite often confuse LT train red and bus red. Train red was darker than bus red, with bus red being used on train repaints from around 1973.

2. In service, the locomotives often got a darker patina from dirt, soot and oil. A few modellers on RMweb have posted photos elsewhere of their pannier tanks weathered beautifully to represent this patina. I only hope I can reproduce this at some time in the future, but maybe not on the Accurascale L94, which represents a preserved locomotive, so will mainly remain clean.

 

Thanks for confirming my recollection as a non-Londoner that red tube trains were closer to BR maroon than the Routemasters were.

I was beginning to wonder whether my memory was playing tricks on me when I saw paints described as "LT red" that seemed closer to pillar box red than I thought they should be.  I prefer the old colour to the unpainted aluminium of later stock.

[G-BOAF]

On 13/09/2024 at 15:51, Goodnight Sweetheart said:

Are both the LT panniers suitable for the steam on LT period ? I noticed one has modern OLE flashes, and doesn’t appear to have a tripcock so I’m assuming only one is correct for the LT period ?

 

Also the three link coupling on the NCB loco looks rather poor with gaps in the links, will this be looked at as this locos front and rear is quite bare in ncb service so the three link is very noticeable. 

 

Cheers

No L91 is correct for in service

L94 is only correct for its preservation guise, because of the OHL flashes, AWS/TPWS boxes, and most significantly, the black wheels and metal rods (as opposed to maroon wheels and red rods).

 

L91 is an interesting 'in service' choice - does this model represent L91 (ex 5752) or L91 (ex 5757). One pre 1960 and one post 1960.

I don't know if there were any material differences between the to locos as first introduced in pristine LT condition.

[Fredo]

Hi Fran, thanks for the painted samples and I am looking forward to seeing them at MK. Fred

[Miss Prism]

Dome is still disappointingly conical.

 

IMO.

 

 

[Hal Nail]

13 hours ago, G-BOAF said:

L91 is an interesting 'in service' choice - does this model represent L91 (ex 5752) or L91 (ex 5757).

The latter, as set out by Accurascale.

 

"L91, as modelled was actually the second locomotive to carry the number L91. Originally this running number was allocated to ex GWR number 5752, a 1929 vintage product of Swindon Works. This was one of the first to enter traffic with LT in 1958 but when it required repair in 1960, costs were prohibitive, and it was scrapped and replaced with the second L91 which we have modelled here. The second L91 was actually from the same batch, ex GWR 5757, this locomotive differed to the first in that it didn’t have the top feed fitted and retained its back feed boiler right up to its final withdrawal in 1968. Unfortunately, L91 was not a survivor and was cut up by Chesterfield Steelbreaking and dismantling limited during 1970."

Edited September 15 by Hal Nail

[Metr0Land]

Given the question of top feeds frequently arises on GWR threads, it's nice to see Accurascale have tooled for with/without.  For those wanting to renumber it's a bit of a nightmare.  The cover of the Red pannier book has L91 with top feed but it didn't have one in Feb 67. I don't think L90(2) had one.  L96 and L98 don't seem to have top feed (at least at some stages) and I'm unclear from pics if L93 lost it at some stage.  If anyone can provide a definitive list I'd be grateful and so would my pscho-analyst.....