Planned Obsolescence

[TheQ]

First secondary school did have mechanical calculators, but we mostly used log tables, iirc 3  calculators per classroom, 3rd secondary school had my first electronic calculator (1974-75), allowed in maths exams not in arithmetic exams.

 

We went VoIP  a few weeks ago, our internet speed went down slightly ( from 27 to 24 Mb,) and it stops intermittently more often. We are a mile and a half from the nearest cabinet.

 

They used to use old WW2 sirens as flood warnings round here... Some shiny living miles inland put a stop to that. Come the next storm, connected phone lines failed as the poles / wires were down, and mobiles don't work in many areas here.

 

[J. S. Bach]

5 hours ago, kevinlms said:

 ...snip... Yes, that effected 000 (our 999) calls, mobiles are fine if within range of a competitors tower, because 000 calls can use any carrier - even without a SIM card. ...snip...

The same here for 911 calls.

[Kickstart]

On 17/11/2023 at 17:18, geoffers said:

"...I am in my mid 50s, and we never touched slide rules at school..."

 

Never used a slide rule at school but used log tables. However, in my professional career as a meteorologist, we used a meteorological slide rule to work out dewpoints and vapour pressures when doing weather observations.  I still have one. They were discarded when semi-automatic observation stations were introduced and all worked out automatically.

 

 

We did use log tables briefly, although I have pretty much forgotten everything to do with them now. I got my first calculator 2 weeks before my O level maths exam

 

All the best

 

Katy

[DaveF]

 

We used log tables when I was at school up to 0 levels, in the 6th form I used a slide rule for Physics and Chemistry (not much call for it in Biolog)y.

 

At University I usually used my slide rule for statistical calculations. We had the big manual calculators with a handle to turn but I rarely bothered with them.

 

I bought my first calculator i about 1975 when I was a Head of Department in a school in Essex.  It was usful for converting exam marks to percentages.

 

About the only time I use one now is for my monthly accounts, even with these I often do the additions in my head. 

 

Edit  I've just had a look, there are 4 calculators in the house, the youngest is at least 10 years old, the one I use most is over 15 years old.

 

David

Edited November 20, 2023 by DaveF

[Hroth]

We were taught log tables in the 1st year at school, in the 2nd year we were transitioned to slide rules (I've still got my British Thornton) and I first encountered a digital calculator (mains-powered desktop) in the 4th year, being told by the teacher who brought it in "This is the future!". He was only slightly wrong, it had a Nixie tube display!

 

[Porkscratching]

I've still got a British Thornton in a drawer upstairs, the last time I used it was to try and convert various dimensions from 4mm Scale to something else for some experimental project, dammed if I can remember exactly what or how tbh.. 

The first digital-y calculator-y  thing I came across in real life was this, nicked from work by my mum in the 70s, as I recall, the battery even still works 😁

Edited November 20, 2023 by Porkscratching

[MJI]

My TV is 14 years old and working quite well.

 

I have scrapped 2 DVB-T recorders, one cost me a lot and was dues to 8K, and refusal to support. DO NOT BUY PACE STUFF, one was a freebie.

 

Humax kit is supported though.

 

Yet under the TV I have a couple of working VCRs including a 1984 Sanyo. Got a working 1982 Sony by the PC.

 

 

[Reorte]

My microwave's well over twenty five years old. I occasionally worry about that, but I've not cooked myself yet... The bedside clock radio's over thirty.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Reorte

[J. S. Bach]

1 hour ago, MJI said:

 ...snip...

Yet under the TV I have a couple of working VCRs including a 1984 Sanyo. Got a working 1982 Sony by the PC.

I still have a working laserdisc player to (sometimes) view my laserdisc collection.

[johnofwessex]

I have a Casio scientific calculator that I got about 45 years ago that still works

[RJS1977]

On 15/11/2023 at 23:23, Andy Kirkham said:

I want to buy a new portable DAB radio and this one is attractive and has good reviews https://www.argos.co.uk/product/3243053

 

However I see that it has a built-in battery which I don't think is replaceable, so when the battery becomes exhausted, the radio will cease permanently to be portable. 

 

Surely it will continue to be portable, but cease to be a radio....

[figworthy]

5 hours ago, Reorte said:

My microwave's well over twenty five years old. I occasionally worry about that, but I've not cooked myself yet... The bedside clock radio's over thirty.

 

My first microwave died a couple of years ago.  It was bought in the 1987 January sales.

 

Adrian

[BrakeCoach]

On 15/11/2023 at 19:42, jjb1970 said:

This is a pet hate of mine. The other answer you get from manufacturers is that you can take it to a service center for battery replacement,  yes but you'll probably find it's so expensive that you're better off just buying a replacement. 

 

I can get that things like wireless in ear monitors are so small that sealed batteries are the most sensible option, though that's why I use wired IEMs (and headphones). However a lot of other stuff could easily be engineered with user replaceable batteries with minimal to zero impact on size. My (company issue) lap top has a sealed battery for example. Every mobile phone I've ever had has seen battery charge drop off a cliff after about two years.

 

What makes it especially messed up is that I read an article on a photography website recently that manufacturers may kill DSLR cameras as declining sales (the market has changed to mirrorless) mean it isn't worth modifying designs for USB-C charging as required by the EU. So a product which is designed for a long life and with user changeable batteries may be killed because regulators insist on USB-C charging but they're happy to accept throwaway goods with sealed batteries and exorbitant battery replacement costs.

 

On life, it depends on use case. If you use it a lot those 500 cycles will last a lot less than 10 years. Amazon make grand claims for Kindle E-reader battery life but if you read a lot battery life is nothing like as long as claimed. For a bit of fun you could ask Roberts for the basis of charging once a week.

 

A lot also depends on battery chemistry. Some batteries degrade gracefully so even as they lose charge it's gradual and they keep a useful charge long after the rated cycles. Others fall off a cliff.

 

Not really planned obsolescence but my laptop's battery did have to be replaced as it was losing capacity for 3+years of use, getting it replaced by apple seemed too expensive so I got a kit to get it replaced myself. Works fine with the new battery.

[Reorte]

On 16/11/2023 at 00:42, jjb1970 said:

What makes it especially messed up is that I read an article on a photography website recently that manufacturers may kill DSLR cameras as declining sales (the market has changed to mirrorless) mean it isn't worth modifying designs for USB-C charging as required by the EU. So a product which is designed for a long life and with user changeable batteries may be killed because regulators insist on USB-C charging but they're happy to accept throwaway goods with sealed batteries and exorbitant battery replacement costs.

That's concerning. Of the two DSLRs I've had one took ordinary AA rechargeables, the other (which I still use) has its own battery, which goes in an external charger. I'd assumed that the USB-C requirement (which I think is well-meaning but excessive to begin with, despite my equal dislike of pointless proprietariness) was only if you've got some sort of built in charging or connection, not that that is now the only acceptable way to charge anything battery powered.

[Michael Hodgson]

22 hours ago, DaveF said:

 

Edit  I've just had a look, there are 4 calculators in the house, the youngest is at least 10 years old, the one I use most is over 15 years old.

 

David

 

Did you use your fingers to count them?  😄

[Hroth]

2 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 

Did you use your fingers to count them?  😄

 

Perhaps he used one of those clicky "tally" devices?

[Talltim]

On 18/11/2023 at 10:43, Hroth said:

 

VOIP customers are advised to have either a UPS or a mobile phone as backup.  The UPS they offer (as an extra) is rated for four hours, after that, you're on your own.  And if its a more than severely local power cut, either the other end of the fibre will be affected too or the local cell towers will be out.

 

Then there's the places with little or no cell coverage in the first place...

 

To be fair, if the other end of the fibre is down due to power issues, then chances are a traditional exchange would be down too

Edited November 21, 2023 by Talltim

[Guest]

On 16/11/2023 at 21:59, APOLLO said:

 

Keep the slide rules - at least they will work if we are hit by an EMP from  a nuke !!!!!

In that event doing some sums wouldn’t be my immediate priority.

[Hroth]

22 minutes ago, 30801 said:

In that event doing some sums wouldn’t be my immediate priority.

 

Dunno.

Could be useful in calculating who* might have to do a Captain Oates....

 

* There could be a requirement for several to do so...

[Reorte]

1 hour ago, Talltim said:

To be fair, if the other end of the fibre is down due to power issues, then chances are a traditional exchange would be down too

However I don't think I've ever had a power cut at my end that's also stopped the phone (at least not the non-cordless one that usually sits at the back of the cupboard).

 

A UPS just to keep the phone running seems like overkill, so I guess when forced on to VOIP I'll have to take my chances. I'm not in the slightest interested in forking out for a mobile just because people keep trying to change things - I've no actual need nor desire for constant access to a phone when going about my day to day life outside my home, so it would end up sitting in a drawer and probably have a flat battery anyway if the power goes off.

[johnofwessex]

1 hour ago, Talltim said:

To be fair, if the other end of the fibre is down due to power issues, then chances are a traditional exchange would be down too

 

BT Exchanges have battery packs & generators  

[Hroth]

24 minutes ago, Reorte said:

However I don't think I've ever had a power cut at my end that's also stopped the phone (at least not the non-cordless one that usually sits at the back of the cupboard).

 

A UPS just to keep the phone running seems like overkill, so I guess when forced on to VOIP I'll have to take my chances. I'm not in the slightest interested in forking out for a mobile just because people keep trying to change things - I've no actual need nor desire for constant access to a phone when going about my day to day life outside my home, so it would end up sitting in a drawer and probably have a flat battery anyway if the power goes off.

 

You don't have to have a mobile for everyday use, a cheap 4G payg phone from Argos (£24 with initial airtime) would be adequate.  Once the airtime has expired, you can still use the phone for 999 calls, which is the main reason for having it as a standby.

 

Of course you're still at the mercy of signal strength...

 

[Michael Hodgson]

22 minutes ago, johnofwessex said:

 

BT Exchanges have battery packs & generators  

But will BT havd any exchanges when everybody is told to use VOIP?

[Reorte]

1 minute ago, Hroth said:

 

You don't have to have a mobile for everyday use, a cheap 4G payg phone from Argos (£24 with initial airtime) would be adequate.  Once the airtime has expired, you can still use the phone for 999 calls, which is the main reason for having it as a standby.

 

Of course you're still at the mercy of signal strength...

More at the mercy of the fact that, since it'll get zero use at any other time, the battery is likely to be flat anyway if the power goes off. You're right about the signal strength, as far as I can gather from visitors the reception in my house is pretty much non-existent (one of the things I like about it! - and that's just on the practical front, I loathe the things too much to be able to face the idea of buying one).

[spamcan61]

31 minutes ago, johnofwessex said:

 

BT Exchanges have battery packs & generators  

The question in my mind is will all the links in the chain still have battery backup. No point in my home phone having backup if the green cabinets (or whatever) down the road  with routers in don't have emergency power.