Planned Obsolescence

[Ron Ron Ron]

1 hour ago, ejstubbs said:

 

APS did not use 35mm film, it was 24mm wide.

 

 

Oops !

My bad, as they used to say (apparently that phrase is old hat now.......just as "old hat" is old hat),  ....I had a look and they are in fact 35mm compacts.

We used to have APS cameras years ago, so I confused the two.

I haven't used a film camera for more years than I can remember.

 

 

 

.

 

[jjb1970]

APS lives on in a funny old way as the film size is now one of the principal digital sensor sizes. Enthusiast cameras tend to be split between APS-C and 35mm equivalent full frame. More professionally oriented models tend to be full frame with a small niche of large medium format size sensors. And for most people most of the time a smart phone camera is all that is needed.

[jjb1970]

2 hours ago, ejstubbs said:

 

APS did not use 35mm film, it was 24mm wide.

 

35mm cameras are not obsolete: you can still buy 35mm film, either ready-loaded in cassette or on 50ft or 100ft bulk rolls that you can load into your own cassettes (I chore I used to subject myself to in order to save money as an impecunious youth).   I still have a small collection of 35mm film cameras, including my Dad's old Yashica rangefinder camera with a built-in CdS meter, a Zenit (which could also be used as a self-defence weapon, it's that heavy), an early 1980s Chinon SLR (which was actually available with autofocus lenses back in the day) and a couple of more modern compact rangefinder cameras.  I've put film through each one of them in the last year and had perfectly good prints from all of them.

 

I love old film cameras, there's a precision and wonderful tactile feel to both the bodies and lenses which is now unusual.

[Suzie]

On 15/11/2023 at 23:23, Andy Kirkham said:

I want to buy a new portable DAB radio and this one is attractive and has good reviews https://www.argos.co.uk/product/3243053

 

However I see that it has a built-in battery which I don't think is replaceable, so when the battery becomes exhausted, the radio will cease permanently to be portable. I queried this with Roberts, who responded promptly, saying that the battery was reckoned to be good for 500 cycles so that if it were recharged once every week it would last for 10 years. It seems a bit odd to me that none of the many reviews  have read mentions this as a drawback. On the other hand I don't think any of the DAB radios I've had has lasted as much as 10 years without some significant bit of it failing, so I wonder if it is worth quibbling about the finite life of the battery. Do we have to accept that consumer goods like this only last a few years?

 

If it has cylindrical cells then the chance is that the battery will not be the first to fail, most likely the broadcast services will be withdrawn first.

 

I am still very sad that my newest radio - a nice internet one with a fancy colour display that shows the weather - has had to be put away on a shelf because the BBC has withdrawn its internet streams and Times never bothered to start one so there is nothing left I want to listen to on it.

 

My car is now ten years old and still operating on its original battery, so rechargeable lithium batteries are a lot better than they used to be.

 

When I got my Pure Evoke 2 DAB radio I got NiMh batteries for it - they lasted considerably longer than the on/off switch which is nigh on impossible to replace because it is inaccessible. If it worked I would be able to listen to Times and Radio 4 though...

[Hroth]

As well as 35mm film still being available, you can still get 120 roll film for use in professional medium format cameras, as well as a fair proportion of all the "L@@K RARE!!!" box and folding cameras you find on ebay, though you do have to watch out for the 620 film ones that you can't get film for...

 

Back to radio.  The next option for the axe will be FM.

 

[Bernard Lamb]

8 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

 

I love old film cameras, there's a precision and wonderful tactile feel to both the bodies and lenses which is now unusual.

I would suggest that you try a modern mirrorless camera.

I could not get on with a full frame digital SLR.

However I tried a mirrorless camera a few months ago and it is like going back to  the feel of something from around 20 years ago. As long as you remember to open the lens before you try to use it.

Not a cheap solution at around £2k for a decent Nikon.

 

Bernard

[Quarryscapes]

15 minutes ago, Bernard Lamb said:

I would suggest that you try a modern mirrorless camera.

I could not get on with a full frame digital SLR.

However I tried a mirrorless camera a few months ago and it is like going back to  the feel of something from around 20 years ago. As long as you remember to open the lens before you try to use it.

Not a cheap solution at around £2k for a decent Nikon.

 

Bernard

 

The only halfway decent Nikon is the FZc, which is Nikon's attempt at being a Fujifilm X-T series. 

Fuji has got the retro film camera body handling with modern tehcnology thing nailed. I use X-T1 and X-T2, the X-T1 I've had since it was released - longer than I've owned any car or other piece of 'tech'. I also use an 80s Olympus OM-4Ti for 35mm, only because I couldn't find a reasonably priced OM2-SP, my preferred Olympus body. I'd also put the Pentax ME down as a contender for the best all round 35mm SLR thanks to it's massive bright viewfinder and pure simplicity of operation (it only does aperture priority with a simple LED indicator of shutter speed). Of course if we're expecting EMP death to electronics then an Olympus OM-3 would be on my wishlist. 

 

 

[APOLLO]

9 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

 

I love old film cameras, there's a precision and wonderful tactile feel to both the bodies and lenses which is now unusual.

 

My late father was a press photographer for several local newspapers in the 60's to the early 80's. I still have his treasured cameras. Rolleiflex, Mamiya twin lens reflex, and quite a few other makes. He swore by Carl Zeiss Jena lenses, super high contor (shutter I think), and for personal reasons (WW2) tried not to buy Japanese, but did in the end. Most were either 8 on 120 or 12 on 120 (120 roll film, either 8 oblong or 12 square negatives). One was a 16 on 120 if I remember correctly. He did not really get on with 35mm. All are collector / museum pieces now.

 

He had his own darkroom at home and learned me the ropes. My camera was an Agfa flexilette, 35mm with gave decent results.

 

I'm sure Dad would have loved modern electronic cameras. Not even a dream when he sadly passed away in 1981. A friend of his made this image in memory.

 

 

Brit15

Edited November 17, 2023 by APOLLO

[Hroth]

Compur shutter?

 

Very reliable if you exercise them, otherwise the slow speeds become a bit sticky.  The other thing to worry about is fungus in the lenses...

 

[Michael Hodgson]

11 hours ago, APOLLO said:

 

Keep the slide rules - at least they will work if we are hit by an EMP from  a nuke !!!!!

 

Brit15

Only if you are still around to use it.

The thing is of no use to youngsters who never had to use one though because they only know how to use calculators.

 

Years ago I chucked out my of school logarithm tables - and I was always happier using those than a slide rule, but I have to admit the slide rule boys always got the answer faster, even though I usually had a slightly greater degree of precision.

[Michael Hodgson]

3 hours ago, Suzie said:

 

 

I am still very sad that my newest radio - a nice internet one with a fancy colour display that shows the weather - has had to be put away on a shelf because the BBC has withdrawn its internet streams

 

Why don't you get the weather on Ceefax then !

[Reorte]

2 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 

Why don't you get the weather on Ceefax then !

I was quite keen on Formula One years ago. I remember watching some races on Ceefax, since that was the only live "broadcast" available.

[Kickstart]

1 hour ago, Bernard Lamb said:

I would suggest that you try a modern mirrorless camera.

I could not get on with a full frame digital SLR.

However I tried a mirrorless camera a few months ago and it is like going back to  the feel of something from around 20 years ago. As long as you remember to open the lens before you try to use it.

Not a cheap solution at around £2k for a decent Nikon.

 

Bernard

 

I have various dSLR cameras, and one of the primary plus points was that they had an optical view finder. Any digital view finder I tended to notice a very slight delay. Not tried any modern mirrorless camera to see if I still find this

 

17 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Only if you are still around to use it.

The thing is of no use to youngsters who never had to use one though because they only know how to use calculators.

 

I am in my mid 50s, and we never touched slide rules at school

 

All the best

 

Katy

[spamcan61]

9 minutes ago, Kickstart said:

 

I am in my mid 50s, and we never touched slide rules at school

 

All the best

 

Katy

I'm 62 and my year at senior school were the first allowed to use pocket calculators, from third year (i.e. age 13) . Before that it was slide rules and log tables, the latter being one of those things from my childhood that are now utterly obsolete. I could still use a slide rules at a push, mine's still in a cupboard 'somewhere' 

[uax6]

23 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

DAB+ is also slowly becoming obsolescent, as with all dedicated radio sets, as more people tend towards streaming all their media.

We have just withdrawn our kitchen DAB+ radio from service, having replaced it with a voice controlled smart speaker, that will play almost any radio station, or choice of music, on a quick verbal command.

We’ve already had a Sonos system around the house, for almost 10 years.

The only radio set we now use, is our bedside FM/AM alarm clock radio, which I’ve been thinking about replacing for a while.

 

Another example, a son and daughter, with their own homes, who don’t possess a single radio set between them.

In my son’’s case, his media comes via another Sonos system, his Sky box, his iPhone and iPad Pro.

Daughter uses her smart devices and a couple of smart speakers (Home Pods).

 

Our next door neighbours use a Sonos in their large open plan living area and some cheap portable smart speaker elsewhere.

 

A lot of dedicated devices, like radios, cameras, portable music players, electronic calculators etc, have been, or are being replaced by ubiquitous smart devices.

The obsolescence is being moved to another place, but at least the functionality is transferable.

 

I’ve collected together a bunch of our old, no longer used stuff from various cupboards, drawers and storage boxes, to be disposed of.

 

2 compact 35mm APS cameras

2 compact digital cameras

4 various electronic calculators

a handheld electronic recorder

a portable CD Walkman.

a portable Mini-Disc Walkman 

2 DAB radios ( one with DAB+ the other next to useless)

1 DAB / Internet radio ( dead electronics)

1 FM/AM portable radio

2 iPod’s

2 iPod Touch’s

4 old, non- smart mobile phones

2 slide rules !!!  not electronic, but

2 Bluetooth speakers - dumped on us by offspring.

a touch-tone remote control, for an old BT branded, tape based answerphone (used to access voice messages directly from the recorder in the device, rather than from the cloud)

 

The functions these discarded devices used to perform, are now all carried out by iPads, iPhones and Smart speakers.

When those devices eventually fail, or are no longer serviceable, the functions can simply be transferred onto something else.

 

 

.

 

The touch tone device is actually quite useful. I have one at home for use for when I have to deal with call centres, as I'm still a user of proper dial telephones! Having a touch tone pad to acoustically couple to the mike (Ie hold over the mouthpiece!) is invaluable, as many, many firms don't have their call systems set up correctly to go to an operator if you don't do anything....

 

Andy G

[Hroth]

2 minutes ago, Kickstart said:

 

I have various dSLR cameras, and one of the primary plus points was that they had an optical view finder. Any digital view finder I tended to notice a very slight delay. Not tried any modern mirrorless camera to see if I still find this

 

 

I am in my mid 50s, and we never touched slide rules at school

 

All the best

 

Katy

 

My Pentax K70 DSLR is bi-modal, it can be used as a conventional optical viewfinder camera, or the mirror can be locked up and you can use the screen on the back instead, useful in certain circumstances but not if you don't want to look like a demented meerkat...

 

I once has a Minolta DiMage 5, a bridge style camera with an electronic eyelevel viewfinder which was worse than useless. It was only good for taking infra-red style pictures with a deep red filter!

 

Slide rules?  We were taught to use them at school, but I was off ill the week they were introduced to the class and I never got the hang of them...

 

[jjb1970]

I went mirrorless many years ago, with a Fujifilm XE2. One of the big selling points of Fujifilm is they did indeed purposefully engineer their cameras to replicate the feel of old film cameras, with rotary dials, metal construction, nice built etc. I like their ergonomics, a shutter speed dial, exposure compensation dial and a command wheel you can use for aperture, I find it much more intuitive than most alternatives. 

 

That said I'm planning to replace it. I've had a lot of good use out of it and it owes me nothing (quite the opposite, it's been around the world many times, been bashed, subject to environmental extremes and has been a good companion) but the rear screen is kaput and now it has started switching itself off, which is very annoying if you're about to take a shot. My only complaint is the AF, which is poor next to Sony, Canon and Nikon alternatives. 

 

I haven't decided what to get yet, but given my use case (a lot of travel, and I like taking pics of aircraft meaning long focal length lens) APS-C or even MFT makes more sense than full frame given the advantages in compactness. I'm open minded, I love the OM Digital OM-1 but it's on the pricey side. The Sony APS-C cameras have superb AF but I'm not as keen on their ergonomics. Nikon seems to only take full frame seriously, Canon have some nice APS cameras but they're pretty much the same size as full frame. I like the Fujifilm XT-5 and of course it'd mean I can keep my lenses (they've been through the grinder too). I like the Panasonic S5 but Panasonic Lumix don't seem to be sold in Singapore. I love the Pentax K3 iii DSLR as it has a lovely design and tactile feel but Pentax are hard to find here too and I on balance I prefer mirrorless (though an optical viewfinder also has positive attributes).

 

We'll see.

[kevinlms]

1 hour ago, uax6 said:

 

The touch tone device is actually quite useful. I have one at home for use for when I have to deal with call centres, as I'm still a user of proper dial telephones! Having a touch tone pad to acoustically couple to the mike (Ie hold over the mouthpiece!) is invaluable, as many, many firms don't have their call systems set up correctly to go to an operator if you don't do anything....

 

Andy G

Many phone services these days, simply don't understand decadic at all! So unless you have some sort of go between device, you'll just get dial tone (that in itself, varies according to the equipment providing it), until it times out, because it has no idea what pulses are!

So in a century, it has gone from manual operator only to DTMF only. Of course mobiles don't even give dial tone!

[uax6]

1 hour ago, kevinlms said:

Many phone services these days, simply don't understand decadic at all! So unless you have some sort of go between device, you'll just get dial tone (that in itself, varies according to the equipment providing it), until it times out, because it has no idea what pulses are!

So in a century, it has gone from manual operator only to DTMF only. Of course mobiles don't even give dial tone!

 

Good old System X still allows loop-dis dialling, so until our local unit goes I'll be ok. Then I'll dig out one of my Signalling Unit 43A's and put it into the line to BT, but I'll still need a 'pocket dialler' to get Octothorpe and Star....

 

Andy G

[Hroth]

Earlier I mentioned that the Minolta DiMage 5 was good for infra red style photos, here's one taken nearly 20 years ago...

 

 

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by Hroth

[melmerby]

On 15/11/2023 at 23:23, Andy Kirkham said:

I want to buy a new portable DAB radio and this one is attractive and has good reviews https://www.argos.co.uk/product/3243053

We have three Roberts Duologic DAB radios (with removable rechargeable batteries!)

The first one bought a long time back is DAB only, two slightly later ones are DAB+

There is also a LG micro-hifi which is DAB+, BT & USB.

Unfortunately the DAB reception around here is not good enough, so they are used on FM!

I have an external DAB aerial at the top of a mast on the side of the house to get an extra 10m of height and it is cabled around the house via a multi output line amp, unfortunately most DAB radios don't have a socket.

 

I intended buying a DAB tuner for the sound system , hence the aerial but they are let down by the poor quality of the broadcast DAB signal in the UK (inferior to FM) due to cramming too many stations on each mux.

[Steamport Southport]

5 hours ago, Reorte said:

I was quite keen on Formula One years ago. I remember watching some races on Ceefax, since that was the only live "broadcast" available.

 

It was the same with the football and cricket scores.

 

They were updated before even the television or radio presenters were getting the scores, it was even faster than the Teleprinter/Vidiprinter. Obviously not if the match was on live!

 

But in the days when you only had one match on the radio (and local radio) then you could see what was happening in the others. When SKY came along with Soccer Saturday that all changed overnight. But even that was thirty odd years ago!

 

 

[Guest]

Funnily enough this arrived today:

[TheQ]

My old film camera is something of an oddity.

110, SLR, Pentax, with various lenses

Last used it before I went to Saudi in 1996, didn't take it with me because they are a bit funny with photographs, and such a small odd camera I'd probably have been arrested as a spy..

 

When I came back digital had taken over.

 

I've just checked the current value and it's around what I paid for it...

 

[geoffers]

7 hours ago, Kickstart said:

 

"...I am in my mid 50s, and we never touched slide rules at school..."

 

Never used a slide rule at school but used log tables. However, in my professional career as a meteorologist, we used a meteorological slide rule to work out dewpoints and vapour pressures when doing weather observations.  I still have one. They were discarded when semi-automatic observation stations were introduced and all worked out automatically.

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by geoffers