Western Region Breakdown Crane Train Formations

[craneman]

The photos I have of 96708 in difficulty were from '66, so clearly not that incident. That must have been an interesting job!

 

[BluenGreyAnorak]

17 hours ago, Siberian Snooper said:

There is/was a Laira packing van on the Plym Valley Railway.

 

 

Do you have any more details, by any chance? There’s nothing about stock on their website, unfortunately.

[Mike_Walker]

Apologies for the poor quality but it was taken as a print which doesn't scan too well.

 

Two vans at Ealing in December 1973 helping in the clear up after Western Talisman's tumble.

 

[BluenGreyAnorak]

That's a great picture, thanks Mike. It's particularly useful in that it shows the black Western Region crane with red support vehicles. Do you (or anybody) know what vehicles those vans would have started life as, by any chance?

 

I found some other pictures of the same event, which show a tank wagon and an open between those vans and the crane. These have been screen grabbed from a video and so are pretty poor quality but wondered if anybody could identify these, too?

 

 

[Siberian Snooper]

6 hours ago, BluenGreyAnorak said:

Do you have any more details, by any chance? There’s nothing about stock on their website, unfortunately.

 

The limit of my knowledge is a repurposed Collet vehicle, but I can't recall anything else. I have not been there since the mid 80's.

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

21 hours ago, BluenGreyAnorak said:

Thanks for all of the extra details, folks. Armed with some of that I've had another trawl for images and found this one on Flickr, described as the Landore breakdown train on 6th Oct 1974. It seems to match some of the suggestions and the nearer coach in particular looks like an essentially standard Mk1 BSK. Is this set likely to have been new to the role at that time, though and therefore slightly later than my chosen time period? Would they have replaced something like the Collets that Mike suggests? My target years seem to be the time when nobody was taking pictures of this sort of stuff 🙄

 

Baring anything else more specific I'll probably pick up a couple of Collet brake 3rds or composites and build something 'representative'.

 

 

 

They almost certainly would have replaced former GWR vehicles.  I did a re-railing job with the Swansea van at Llandarcy in December 1973 but I think the vehicle might have been yellow at that time (but it was at night and it was dark and it was raining so the colour might not have been clear and my main interest was in getting the gang on site and working).

 

Good breakdown gang and the second time they re-railed the wagon (after an idiot Shunter had not done what I'd told him to do when moving it) they got it back on the road in less than half the time it had taken them the first time they rerailed it..It had landed the second time about half an inch from where it had landed the first time but a.loaded 45 ton tank car wasn't an esay job on a gradient - hence the second runaway on the gradient and derailment on the trap point.

 

I was on the '[phk ne to Control when the second derailment happened; I didn't know the Shunter and- I would have kept a closer eye on him if I'd known hime.  The first time it was re-railed we couldn't get a coupling onto so I told him to lengthen the coupling with a fishplate but scotch the wagon under as many wheels as possible as soon as there was room to couple to it properly .  Alas he decided to be clever and let the loco carry on right up the loop so when the loco stopped (a tiny bit sharply)  the fishplate dropped out and the tank car ran away back down the hill too the trap point.  He was not in my good books over that so I stood over him the next time we first moved it until we got it scorched and took the fishplate out.

 

That noght was however my sole experience with teh Swansea vans.  I was far bette acquainted with the Canton vans who were regular visitors at Radyr yard - one of the best breakdown gangs I ever worked with

[craneman]

10 hours ago, Mike_Walker said:

Apologies for the poor quality but it was taken as a print which doesn't scan too well.

 

Two vans at Ealing in December 1973 helping in the clear up after Western Talisman's tumble.

 

The 45-tonner here is Old Oak's ADRR 95211, the former GWR No 16 (and the only one of the four GW 45-tonners not to have survived, provided that West Coast hasn't scrapped 95212 yet). AT that time 95211 was running with a former GW 6-wheel milk tank as an auxiliary water supply, and a modified former GW 15-ton HYDRA D as a tackle wagon. The normal configuration seems to have been to have the tank coupled to the jib runner and the HYDRA coupled to the crane, to enable to crane to pick tackle directly from the HYDRA. I am pretty sure that it is the HYDRA and not an open in the photos.

 

The HYDRA was DW42188, built in 1913 under Lot 745 to Diagram G22. It ended its days at Woodham's yard in Barry and was photographed there in April 1984. There are photos of it at Barry on Paul Bartlett's site at https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/gwrloriotlowmac (if the link works as I intend it will produce an index page, you'll need to scroll down a few rows to find five excellent detailed pictures of it). I do not know its original number offhand.

 

The milk tank appears to be a Diagram O64 end-filler vehicle and in one photo I have the number DW 052 is clearly visible, however I am not sure if this is the number in its entirety (it appears to be).

 

Earlier in its life this crane, which was at OOC from new in 1940 until 1977, ran with what appears to be a Diagram L 10 Weight Tender (generally similar to a "tube" wagon) and very similar if not identical to those built for the 36-tonners in 1908 and 1910. The origins of this wagon (and there was at least one other with one of the other GW 45-tonners) is not clear, it wasn't inherited from a 36-tonner since they all kept theirs until withdrawal, and it is unknown when it was built and when GWR 16 got it (there are photos with it showing the riding vans still lettered GWR so likely pre-1948). It is also not known when the HYDRA replaced it. Most of the photos showing the HYDRA also shown ex-BR Mk1 vehicles for tool and riding vans.

 

ADRR95211 was out of use at Swindon by 1984 and was broken up at Swindon in 1986. It is not know what defect if any led to its withdrawal and it is possible that it was simply due an overhaul which was considered uneconomic. It was replaced at OOC by the near-identical ADRR95212 which inherited the support wagons described above, and was last seen returning to nature at Carnforth, but now seems to have disappeared from view (hence the comment above). Hopefully it has not been scrapped. 

[BluenGreyAnorak]

Thanks for all of the extra detail, chaps. It's all fascinating stuff.

 

I found the pictures of the Hydra. I'm not quite convinced that it's the same one in the Ealing pictures as that one looks much taller, but an interesting vehicle nonetheless. What would that have been used for? Larger timbers for packing, perhaps?

[craneman]

I have to say looking again at the Ealing photos that it looks more like a PIPE or TUBE (or possibly L10 weight tender) than the HYDRA.

 

Certainly in the old days packing was where possible kept under cover and open vehicles carried tackle, since wet packing is harder to handle and tackle is usually too heavy to mam-handle (so has to be somewhere the crane can pick it up). It would be unusual but not unknown to carry very large timbers since packing was usually man-handled and you seldom need long packing.

[Mike_Walker]

Unfortunately, the end of 1973 wasn't good for the WR.  On the evening of 18 November, 1605 failed to stop in the Up Loop at Ruscombe and ran through the blocks demolishing the remote relay interlocking building which someone had thoughtfully built just beyond.  

 

The OOC crane was again involved and as I read the above I thought I had a photo of the Hydra but as you can see, it was a different one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As you can see, trains kept running whilst the recovery was going on although with hand signalling as everything in the area had been put out of action.  I particularly like the last shot with the up train squeezing past as the crane was slewing.  Just imagine that happening today - there'd be a total block between Reading and Paddington!

 

[craneman]

I have never yet seen any photos of the Ruscombe incident that have shown the support vehicles for the breakdown train (other than the jib runner), only those used for carrying debris. I think that the Hydra in your photos is the same diagram as the one converted for the tackle wagon, but obviously lacks the conversion.

 

 

[WillCav]

36 minutes ago, craneman said:

I have never yet seen any photos of the Ruscombe incident that have shown the support vehicles for the breakdown train (other than the jib runner), only those used for carrying debris. I think that the Hydra in your photos is the same diagram as the one converted for the tackle wagon, but obviously lacks the conversion.

 

 

The wagon in the photo with most of a hopper wagon on is GWR no 42270. It is a diagram G13 wagon with earlier style curved frames.

The G19 has frames with straight edges.

Will

[BluenGreyAnorak]

14 hours ago, craneman said:

I have to say looking again at the Ealing photos that it looks more like a PIPE or TUBE (or possibly L10 weight tender) than the HYDRA.

 

 

It does have the look of a 12t TUBE about it.

 

[Stoke West]

7 hours ago, Mike_Walker said:

Unfortunately, the end of 1973 wasn't good for the WR.  On the evening of 18 November, 1605 failed to stop in the Up Loop at Ruscombe and ran through the blocks demolishing the remote relay interlocking building which someone had thoughtfully built just beyond.  

 

The OOC crane was again involved and as I read the above I thought I had a photo of the Hydra but as you can see, it was a different one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As you can see, trains kept running whilst the recovery was going on although with hand signalling as everything in the area had been put out of action.  I particularly like the last shot with the up train squeezing past as the crane was slewing.  Just imagine that happening today - there'd be a total block between Reading and Paddington!

 

And all done without road transport except for staff and no outside contractors . No week to build a road to bring in cranes etc and cause endless disruption to residents , although few at this location . The only item that is better now is the provision of welfare facilities 

[craneman]

... and no "crime scene"!

 

However did we cope back then!

[Stoke West]

9 hours ago, Mike_Walker said:

Unfortunately, the end of 1973 wasn't good for the WR.  On the evening of 18 November, 1605 failed to stop in the Up Loop at Ruscombe and ran through the blocks demolishing the remote relay interlocking building which someone had thoughtfully built just beyond.  

 

The OOC crane was again involved and as I read the above I thought I had a photo of the Hydra but as you can see, it was a different one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As you can see, trains kept running whilst the recovery was going on although with hand signalling as everything in the area had been put out of action.  I particularly like the last shot with the up train squeezing past as the crane was slewing.  Just imagine that happening today - there'd be a total block between Reading and Paddington!

 

No wires to get in the way . The relay room was rebuilt at the other end of the loop so out the way of a run through . The best way is to leave the trap open until the trains at a stand

[The Stationmaster]

On 16/11/2023 at 09:11, Mike_Walker said:

Unfortunately, the end of 1973 wasn't good for the WR.  On the evening of 18 November, 1605 failed to stop in the Up Loop at Ruscombe and ran through the blocks demolishing the remote relay interlocking building which someone had thoughtfully built just beyond.  

 

The OOC crane was again involved and as I read the above I thought I had a photo of the Hydra but as you can see, it was a different one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As you can see, trains kept running whilst the recovery was going on although with hand signalling as everything in the area had been put out of action.  I particularly like the last shot with the up train squeezing past as the crane was slewing.  Just imagine that happening today - there'd be a total block between Reading and Paddington!

 

For the sake of historical accuracy a couple pf things -

 

1. Cionrtrary to common thoughts the building was not actuallya relay room although it was built to that design but in fact it was even worse an as it housed a major cable jointing and distribution site. That included all the telephone circuits, SPTs and all eastwards from Ruscomber

2.  proivided the crane was secured and b nit actually slewing at the time it was quite permissible for a train to be talked past it with the job and hook raised.  Ideally thi job sjhould be lowered but at that time it was not specifically required.  

 

However as you say the railway would nowadays probably be totally blocked for umpteen miles on eithe r side of teh site ad s doing anything else would be too difficult even it it wasn't specifically prohibited.  

 

The incident caused a major upset happening around the start of the evening peak and a major row subsequent;y erupted in management circles because there were trains stopped at every signal on the Down Main Line all the way back from Ruscombe to just east of White Waltham because Drivers didn't know their Rules properly.  In the end an Acting Signalling Inspector, Charlie Pavey, who lived in Twyford, walked all the way along the queue instructing each Driver to pass the auto signals at danger in accordance with the Rule Book.  By that time a Handsignalman had got to the signal at Risuscombe (on the London side of the n bridge from which those photo were taken) and temporary block worlking was someghow established from there to Twyford.

 

A couple pf fairly seniot heads very nearly fell over that part pf the incident but backsides were somewhat discomfitted instead and they survived..

Edited November 17, 2023 by The Stationmaster