MTK Class 109 “Wickham” DMU

[Darius43]

Started this morning, the MTK Class 109 DMU - the original manufactured by Wickham of Ware.

 

 

The plan is to mount the bodies on rtr Bachman DMU chassis.  To that end the mis-shaped buffer beams were cut away from the cab ends and the parts cleaned up.

 

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[andyman7]

Using the Bachmann chassis will ensure reliable running. Of course there are the masochists among us that quite like to wrestle with the aluminium floor, white metal bogies and all sorts of lashed-up mechanisms 🙂

[cctransuk]

2 minutes ago, Darius43 said:

Started this morning, the MTK Class 109 DMU - the original manufactured by Wickham of Ware.

 

 

The plan is to mount the bodies on rtr Bachman DMU chassis.  To that end the mis-shaped buffer beams were cut away from the cab ends and the parts cleaned up.

 

 

Cheers

 

Darius

 

Would the raised detail of the ends benefit from a little thinning?

 

CJI.

[Darius43]

1 minute ago, cctransuk said:

 

Would the raised detail of the ends benefit from a little thinning?

 

CJI.

The “eyebrows” could certainly use a trim.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[Darius43]

6 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

Using the Bachmann chassis will ensure reliable running. Of course there are the masochists among us that quite like to wrestle with the aluminium floor, white metal bogies and all sorts of lashed-up mechanisms 🙂

I employed a pair of Bachmann DMU chassis for the MTK Class 103 DMU so will be using the same methodology.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

Edited November 7, 2023 by Darius43

[cctransuk]

16 minutes ago, Darius43 said:

I employed a pair of Bachmann DMU chassis for the MTK Class 103 DMU so will be using the same methodology.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

 

I've got one of the MTK Wickham kits, so I will follow this build with interest.

 

CJI.

[stewartingram]

I had one, sort of completed, but sold it on years ago. I now have a 3D print version, reaching completion. I've used a Replica chassis which is ideal.

[Enterprisingwestern]

19 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Would the raised detail of the ends benefit from a little thinning?

 

CJI.

 

Removing and replacing?

 

Mike.

[cctransuk]

1 hour ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Removing and replacing?

 

Mike.

 

Not sure - I feel that the Wickham character has been caught - just over-emphasised.

 

When my kit makes it to the top of the pile, I'll try reducing the detail first, and see how it looks.

 

CJI.

Edited November 8, 2023 by cctransuk

[Darius43]

I plan to first fix the cast ends to the bodies and then thin the eyebrows.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[cctransuk]

1 minute ago, Darius43 said:

I plan to first fix the cast ends to the bodies and then thin the eyebrows.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

 

Back in the 1970s, when I built my first - and only - MTK DMU kit, I was concerned that the aluminium bodyshell / whitemetal end joints might be weak; (pre- cyanoacetate days); so I screwed the body together.

 

The sides fit into cast recesses on the ends, so I drilled and tapped the whitemetal (!) ends, and countersunk the sides for 12BA screws. The joint was also glued with two-part epoxy, and the screws were filed and filled flush with the bodyside.

 

Not surprisingly, the joints remained sound!

 

I'm not sure that I'd go that far now - but can you REALLY trust superglue in this application?

 

CJI.

[stewartingram]

When I built my MTK 109 (the one I eventually sold) there was no (or limited availability) superglue, so I used a then new 2-part glue. I forget the name but wish it was still available **. 1 part was in a tube similar in size to Araldite, the other part was in a small bottle (with a brush in the lid?). 

I found a wonderful glue, with a claim that it could even be used underwater!. I used it on a few aluminium/whitemetal kits with success. Nothing else seemed so successful in use, and easy to use. Sadly I either used it all or it went off.

Whether superglue has superceded it is debatable though - maybe?

** A few months back I did remember the name, and googled it. If it is the same stuff, it is still available, but in industrial use quantities, with prices to match!

Does anyone know what I'm talking about I wonder? (lol)

[Halvarras]

I bought my first MTK kit (Peak) in the Kings Cross model shop in 1973, with a bottle of the 'recommended' then new-fangled superglue - in a little white plastic bottle - to assemble it (happy 50th birthday superglue?!) Unfortunately the glue proved unsuitable because it required the parts to fit precisely (I believe it works upon the exclusion of air?) which was not exactly a strong point of MTK kits, so I switched to two-part epoxy which at least had gap-filling properties! Having used Araldite previously which took an age to set, to the point of being useless for kit assembly, I chose the Devcon quick-setting type - not sure if Araldite's version was around at the time, but this was the one I found.

I stuck with Devcon (no pun intended, but there it is!) for the Class 25 and Class 119 3-car DMU I built shortly after, but it struggled a bit with the aluminium on the latter - initially I had a couple of sprung corners but with a little perseverance I did get it to stick properly.

[Darius43]

The problem with bonding white metal parts to aluminium is the microscopic oxidation layer on the aluminium surface that inhibits bonding.  Ideally the white metal ends could be soldered but for aluminium that requires lots of heat - not a good idea with white metal in the mix.  
 

I have had success by supergluing wide(ish) strips of 1mm thick plasticard to the inside surface of the MTK aluminium body at the joint location.  This gives something different to the Aluminium body for the white metal parts to bond to - especially useful for MTK parts that only fit where they touch.  Gaps are filled using Humbrol plastic filler (other fillers are available).

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[Halvarras]

Yes, I found it necessary to really 'rough up' the aluminium in the bonding area (I also built an MTK Hawksworth coach with brass shell - same problem and solution. I've never assembled anything using a soldering iron, or possessed one powerful enough anyway - wiring and small bits only!)

 

One lesson I learned from the Peak kit involved the pony trucks - these were whitemetal castings with a groove to take the axle. To retain these I cut small squares of plasticard and glued them with epoxy. And they fell off again! Seems the epoxy didn't take to the plastic at all, so I used wire bent to a 'U' shape instead (ironically in hindsight the superglue would probably have worked on this as the pony truck castings were neatly done). Although I subsequently avoided using epoxy to glue plastic to anything else I did relent in 1993 when I chose to replace the three ridiculously heavy whitemetal roof sections between the cabs of a D600 kit with a reprofiled Tri-ang coach roof (to save weight, as well as much filing as they didn't line up at all with the cab roofs, since I was only using one power bogie). I recall the panic to apply the epoxy all around the opening before it started hardening! I reinforced it with more on the inside. It's still intact 30 years later....

[Darius43]

Doors scribed into the body sides using an Olfa P-Cutter.

 

 

 

The door droplight windows punched into the aluminium bodies are too small.  They should be taller such that the tops line up with the tops of the main windows.

 

This was rectified by partly drilling out the areas to be removed, using a 2mm bit in a pin vice, and then opening out the window to required profile using needle files.

 

 

 

 

Cheers

 

Darius

Edited November 21, 2023 by Darius43

[Halvarras]

The unit's lining on the box lid illustration does highlight this error but well done for noting it at the start and not at the end (after you've painted it!)

 

All those closely-spaced windows......... Wickham were determined to make their contribution to the Modernisation Plan as light and airy inside as possible. I'm aware that this unit's construction was unique to Wickham and perhaps that's what made it possible.

[Darius43]

The cast headlights on the cab fronts are at different heights so I removed them and re-drilled the light apertures “on the level”.

 

 

I superglued light aperture surrounds sliced from a length of plastic tube.

 

 

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[cctransuk]

4 hours ago, Darius43 said:

 

 

 

 

Thanks for that - little job for this afternoon.

 

The kit won't get built yet, but I'll amend the droplights now, as I'd otherwise forget when I do get round to the build!

 

CJI.

[andyman7]

On 08/11/2023 at 15:38, Halvarras said:

Yes, I found it necessary to really 'rough up' the aluminium in the bonding area (I also built an MTK Hawksworth coach with brass shell - same problem and solution. I've never assembled anything using a soldering iron, or possessed one powerful enough anyway - wiring and small bits only!)

 

One lesson I learned from the Peak kit involved the pony trucks - these were whitemetal castings with a groove to take the axle. To retain these I cut small squares of plasticard and glued them with epoxy. And they fell off again! Seems the epoxy didn't take to the plastic at all, so I used wire bent to a 'U' shape instead (ironically in hindsight the superglue would probably have worked on this as the pony truck castings were neatly done). Although I subsequently avoided using epoxy to glue plastic to anything else I did relent in 1993 when I chose to replace the three ridiculously heavy whitemetal roof sections between the cabs of a D600 kit with a reprofiled Tri-ang coach roof (to save weight, as well as much filing as they didn't line up at all with the cab roofs, since I was only using one power bogie). I recall the panic to apply the epoxy all around the opening before it started hardening! I reinforced it with more on the inside. It's still intact 30 years later....

Here's an original early 70s built MTK Peak with the original supplied twin K's motor bogies - and it works! Prior to the availability of the Mainline model this would have been a seriously exotic presence on a model railway

[Darius43]

Cab front part temporarily taped in place.  The cast roof is much higher than that of the aluminium body.  
 

 

 

Filing and sanding the white metal roof to a matching profile would leave a very thin layer remaining.  The problem was solved by gently bending the cab roof to match the body roof profile using small pliers.

 

White metal cab and rear face were then glued in place with plasticard strips reinforcing the joints.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

External gaps in the joints will be filled and sanded.
 

Cheers

 

Darius

Edited November 10, 2023 by Darius43

[Darius43]

The fit of the coach body to the Bachmann DMU chassis wasn’t good and the step boards didn’t line up with the doors.  
 

Cutting up a Mazak chassis didn’t appeal so I have decided to adapt the MTK folded aluminium sheet chassis by laminating 0.25mm plasticard sheets to the base and edges.

 

 

 

The chassis is a snug push fit into the body.

 

 

I will use Hornby DMU bogies and motor bogies that I obtained as spares.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

Edited November 10, 2023 by Darius43

[Mark C]

3 hours ago, andyman7 said:

Here's an original early 70s built MTK Peak with the original supplied twin K's motor bogies - and it works! Prior to the availability of the Mainline model this would have been a seriously exotic presence on a model railway

I've got one of these in long-term storage (pretty much since the 70's, consequent to the arrival of the Mainline model, along with a Class 47!) - but I utilised MTK's own power bogies.  They had a novel design utilising a layshaft that enabled 3-axle drive (or, by omitting the layshaft, unpowered) and pickups incorporated with the brass axle bearings.  I'm sure that with a bit more work they would have performed well, but they never quite did for me - the frames, layshaft and gears were moulded in a greasy sort of plastic, which was probably not ideal.

 

The Class 47 was powered by twin K's motor bogies which generally spun on the spot without much movement on the track.

 

On Wright Writes there is a photograph of my MTK Class 03, which was much more successful (until the Mainline version, again).

 

Like many others, I learned a lot from building MTK kits...

 

Anyway, back to the original topic...

 

 

Mark

 

[Darius43]

Bogies fitted to trailer car chassis.

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers

 

Darius

 

Edited November 10, 2023 by Darius43

[cctransuk]

2 hours ago, Darius43 said:

Bogies fitted to trailer car chassis.

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers

 

Darius

 

 

Does the body sit a little high?

 

Just an impression - may be just an illusion!

 

CJI.