GWR 3 plank wagons appreciation thread

[drduncan]

1 hour ago, Mikkel said:

Here is 27470 at Slough,  supposedly 1920s though I wonder if it is earlier. A load of carboys perhaps? Although the wagons at the back don't seem like the right sort of company.

 

 

 

The rest are Swindon Works wagons. Standard or not, they have three planks! First one is this lovely dumb-buffered specimen , parked near the foundry in 1908. 

 

 

 

A further close-up of the above, showing also the 2-planker. Sadly it's the corner of a much larger photo, so this is all we get.

 

 

 

The next one shows sidings next to the Swindon scrap yard (no date), and a row of 3-plankers with loads.

 

 

 

And lastly this one, discussed briefly elsewhere but relevant here. Swindon Works at some point at or after 1921 (when the Gas plant, which features in the larger photo, was rebuilt).

 

 

 

Close-up up of the close-up, illustrating the Works number series:

 

 

 

The dumb buffered 3plank is very interesting. Such a shame the number isn’t legible. It does look like it might be c16ft o/h with a wheelbase over 9ft.

D

[drduncan]

I'm afraid I don't have the wagon stock book for the 27xxx series (need to sell more kits to finance a research trip to NRM...), but @Chrisbr may be able to throw some light on 27470's history.

 

Duncan

[Compound2632]

7 minutes ago, drduncan said:

I'm afraid I don't have the wagon stock book for the 27xxx series (need to sell more kits to finance a research trip to NRM...), but @Chrisbr may be able to throw some light on 27470's history.

 

The 27xxx series is very much a blank in my notes from Atkins et al., but there are numerous 3-plank lots where in my notes i have the numbers listed as 'various' - does Atkins et al. give any more detail? I would read these as wagons built as renewals?

[magmouse]

2 hours ago, Mikkel said:

The rest are Swindon Works wagons. Standard or not, they have three planks! First one is this lovely dumb-buffered specimen , parked near the foundry in 1908. 

 

 

While it's off-topic for a three-plank thread, it is perhaps worth pausing briefly to enjoy the iron-bodied wagon behind the three-planker. Wooden brakes shoes with curved lever, and early-pattern self contained buffers. Wooden headstocks, judging by their thickness, so perhaps flitched solebars. The triangular strengthening plates on the inside of the ends are also interesting, in this rare inside view of a wagon of this type.

 

The 'LOCO' branding may be of interest to @Compound2632, following discussion of this on the D299 thread. Similarly, the writing on the dumb buffered wagon, which seems to read 'Loco' on the left and 'Factory' on the right.

 

Nick.

 

 

[drduncan]

I don't know if they are renewals or on captial accounts, I'm afraid. The Bible's lot lists does sometimes lead to more questions than it answers.

D 

Edited June 10 by drduncan

[drduncan]

2 minutes ago, magmouse said:

 

While it's off-topic for a three-plank thread, it is perhaps worth pausing briefly to enjoy the iron-bodied wagon behind the three-planker. Wooden brakes shoes with curved lever, and early-pattern self contained buffers. Wooden headstocks, judging by their thickness, so perhaps flitched solebars. The triangular strengthening plates on the inside of the ends are also interesting, in this rare inside view of a wagon of this type.

 

The 'LOCO' branding may be of interest to @Compound2632, following discussion of this on the D299 thread. Similarly, the writing on the dumb buffered wagon, which seems to read 'Loco' on the left and 'Factory' on the right.

 

Nick.

 

 

Yes I'd clocked the iron bodied wagon too. Looks like there is a number on the end...576? 578? Is that a departmental number?

D

[magmouse]

11 minutes ago, drduncan said:

Yes I'd clocked the iron bodied wagon too. Looks like there is a number on the end...576? 578? Is that a departmental number?

D

 

It's not marked as departmental (no large 'X' and it has the full 'G.W.R', not 'G.W'), so I suspect it is still in use for loco coal, or has recently been moved to internal use but not marked up as such. I agree with either 576 or 578 as the final digits. Possibly starting 41 or 44?

 

Nick.

[Compound2632]

17 minutes ago, magmouse said:

Possibly starting 41 or 44?

 

Open Goods (3-plank) Nos. 41001-41105 (105)
Open Goods (4-plank) Nos. 41112-41711 (600)
D2 Nos. 41712-41730 (19)
M1 Nos. 41770-41896 (127)
C series Nos. 41900-41932 (33)
E series Nos. 41998-42000 (3)

 

887 numbers. 

 

Open Goods (4-plank) Nos. 44001-47000 (3,000)

[magmouse]

4 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Open Goods (3-plank) Nos. 41001-41105 (105)
Open Goods (4-plank) Nos. 41112-41711 (600)
D2 Nos. 41712-41730 (19)
M1 Nos. 41770-41896 (127)
C series Nos. 41900-41932 (33)
E series Nos. 41998-42000 (3)

 

887 numbers. 

 

Open Goods (4-plank) Nos. 44001-47000 (3,000)

 

Hmmm. It seems too early (looking at the various design features) to have been build during or after the build of the 3-plank wagons in the 41001 onwards series (which was presumably the first use of those numbers). If its number is really five digits starting with 4, then it was allocated this number later, which seems a bit unlikely. Perhaps the number starts with a 2?

 

Nick.

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, magmouse said:

Perhaps the number starts with a 2?

 

N6 Nos. in range 23046-23772, 23817-23879, 23982 (32)
N7 Nos. in range 23002-23856 (99)

 

... which suggests renewals of earlier loco coal wagons?

 

That's all my notes from Atkins et al. yield for the 23xxx series apart from 16 3-plank wagons but coverage of the 2xxxx range is very skimpy:

 

The 24xxx - 25xxx block includes about 1,300 O4s, so presumably renewals, likewise 500 O2s in the 28xxx block and 700 in the 29xxx block.

 

The 26xxx block looks to be dedicated to cattle wagons; the latter part of the 28xxx block includes some pre-iron mink wood minks.

[magmouse]

43 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

... which suggests renewals of earlier loco coal wagons?

 

That would certainly make sense. I think I can persuade myself the second digit could be a 3!

 

Nick.

[Chrisbr]

10 hours ago, drduncan said:

I'm afraid I don't have the wagon stock book for the 27xxx series (need to sell more kits to finance a research trip to NRM...), but @Chrisbr may be able to throw some light on 27470's history.

I know my place 😀

 

27470 - 2nd of three wagons to carry the number, built in 1880 to Lot 202 at Swindon and condemned in 1922. Carried grease axleboxes throughout it's life. Lot 202 was built as renewals.

[Chrisbr]

9 hours ago, magmouse said:

 

It's not marked as departmental (no large 'X' and it has the full 'G.W.R', not 'G.W'), so I suspect it is still in use for loco coal, or has recently been moved to internal use but not marked up as such. I agree with either 576 or 578 as the final digits. Possibly starting 41 or 44?

Definitely not 4157x as they were wooden bodied... can't speak to 44xxx as I don't have that book yet....!

 

 

[Chrisbr]

9 hours ago, magmouse said:

Perhaps the number starts with a 2?

 

23876 would fit the bill in terms of both wagons were Loco Wagons, however, if the photo date is correct, it's extremely unlikely as the first iteration was condemned in 1903 and the second one wasn't built until 1920....

 

Will delve a bit deeper when I have more time...

[drduncan]

52 minutes ago, Chrisbr said:

I know my place 😀

 

Gently caressing the wagon stock books while muttering ‘my precious…’???? 😁

[Chrisbr]

39 minutes ago, drduncan said:

Gently caressing the wagon stock books while muttering ‘my precious…’???? 😁

How did you know....!!

[Halvarras]

On 27/12/2023 at 19:40, Hal Nail said:

The GWR built a couple of 3 plank wagons in 1939, on 10' fitted underframes, originally for container use. They were basically a cut down standard 5 plank, with a small side door and the sloping bottom plank, the term for which escapes me.

 

Photo in Pre-Nationalisation Freight Wagons on British Railways, Larkin.

 

36459/60. A little surprised these didn't prompt further comment on this thread (that I could find anyway), but perhaps they're so obscure there's not much to be said about them. Bachmann must be aware of them because they produced their LMS-design 3-plank bearing the number W36459 which wasn't......um......quite right!

I have that book too, and a spare Dapol unpainted 5-plank body which I often  imagine tackling with a razor saw one day, just to produce something a bit different. I wonder if either or both of these 3-planks ended up in departmental service.....?

Edited July 13 by Halvarras
Added image

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, Halvarras said:

36459/60

 

These numbers were originally carried by 3-plank wagons of old series lot 294 which I think must be c. 1884. So they were taking after their old folks.

[Hal Nail]

2 hours ago, Halvarras said:

I have that book too, and a spare Dapol unpainted 5-plank body which I often  imagine tackling with a razor saw one day,

After I'd posted that, it occurred to me a lot of GWR 5 plank wagons (of the 10' variety) had a thicker plank 2nd up from the bottom, whereas these 3 planks were all even. So not actually quite that straight forward to do a conversion!

Edited July 13 by Hal Nail

[drduncan]

On 10/06/2024 at 19:26, Chrisbr said:

How did you know....!!

Takes one to know one…

D

[Halvarras]

3 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

After I'd posted that, it occurred to me a lot of GWR 5 plank wagons (of the 10' variety) had a thicker plank 2nd up from the bottom, whereas these 3 planks were all even. So not actually quite that straight forward to do a conversion!

 

Phew, OK, scrap that job I didn't need to add to the pile anyway 😊!

[swampy]

On 13/07/2024 at 21:50, Compound2632 said:

 

These numbers were originally carried by 3-plank wagons of old series lot 294 which I think must be c. 1884. So they were taking after their old folks.

36459/60 are as you say from lot 294, completed in November 1883, according to the compehensive GWW 3-plank whitemetal kit instructions, which contain a lot list, quantities built, construction details (flitched/iron/wood), number info, measurements, completion date, capital or renewal account.

 

However No 27470 mentioned earlier isn't noted as part of lot 202, so (I assume) was presumably missed when the instruction compiler copied down the entries in the wagon register.

 

Pete   

Edited July 14 by swampy
typo corrected

[Compound2632]

1 minute ago, swampy said:

34659/60 are as you say from lot 294, completed in November 1883

 

Ha! My dead reckoning of c. 1884 wasn't far out then. My list is chiefly compiled from the information in Atkins et al., G.W.R. Goods Wagons (3rd edition, 1998) supplemented  by other sources as and when. Atkins et al. is annoyingly vague about dates, but I'm fully aware that the full information is out there in the Wagon Registers. I'm also well aware that lots were not completed in numerical order, though they were presumably placed in numerical order.

[Chrisbr]

27 minutes ago, swampy said:

34659/60 are as you say from lot 294, completed in November 1883, according to the compehensive GWW 3-plank whitemetal kit instructions, which contain a lot list, quantities built, construction details (flitched/iron/wood), number info, measurements, completion date, capital or renewal account.

 

However No 27470 mentioned earlier isn't noted as part of lot 202, so (I assume) was presumably missed when the instruction compiler copied down the entries in the wagon register.

34659/70 were both outshopped in Jan 1882 as part of Lot 249.

 

34569 lasted until 1924, being converted to Oil boxes in 1903 and upgraded to 10T load at some point. 34660 was condemned in 1920 and the number used for an inherited Rhymney Railways wagon until 1928. Both numbers were then use in Lot 1249 in 1937 for wagons 3' 3" tall and with no record of the height being changed in the Stock book

 

27470 was built as part of Lot 202 being outshipped in May 1880 and condemned in 1922 having kept it's grease axleboxes throughout it's life.

[Compound2632]

36 minutes ago, Chrisbr said:

34659/70 were both outshopped in Jan 1882 as part of Lot 249.

 

34569 lasted until 1924, being converted to Oil boxes in 1903 and upgraded to 10T load at some point. 34660 was condemned in 1920 and the number used for an inherited Rhymney Railways wagon until 1928. Both numbers were then use in Lot 1249 in 1937 for wagons 3' 3" tall and with no record of the height being changed in the Stock book

 

27470 was built as part of Lot 202 being outshipped in May 1880 and condemned in 1922 having kept it's grease axleboxes throughout it's life.

 

Some typos have built up and been carried forward here. The numbers originally quoted  by @Halvarras for the pair of 3-plank wagons built in 1939 are 36459/60. @swampy accidentally transposed a pair of digits turning these into 34659/60.