robmcg Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 ...if it doesn't look right then the illusion is destroyed. We clamour for better and better RTR models, which regarding much of the superstructure is far and away better than all but the best kit/scratchbuilders can do, fine for a static but if I want a moving model, which I do, i want that to look as right as possible when it moves. I can accept things which become incorrect due to the limitations of a model, some things just won't scale down, I can even menatlly ignore things like tension lock couplings, but to have an illusion spoiled by something that has been unneccassrily built wrong is a different matter. this even more so when the pre-production model appeared better. Since production moved to China, I struggle to think of any steam model that has it's valve gear correct, and they all seem different in their innaccuracies?! I wonder how American models fare in this context, not owning any or knowing how the model should look, I can't really comment, but does the much larger American market also see such things? All this may, of course, be totally irrelevant when the models are seen in the flesh. Like you I am very pleased with the standards of detail in RTR models but somewhat disappointed by the accuracy of valve gear, and struggle to see why offsets for the drive to the piston valves are so variable, also with the drive gear the angle of the piston rod sometimes visibly 'out'. These things are not too difficult to 'get right', and from memory of a few US-prototype HO steamlocos I owned (Bachmann Spectrum) the valve gear on them was very good, although many have a Baker valve gear style. I agree also that this may be construed as nit-picking but I'm sure the above reflects the the feelings of many buyers. And no, I do not expect that variable position for reversing levers be incorporated. Well, not this year! Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 There is a variant of the 04 which utilised the same running plate, cylinders and motion, but used a thompson cab and boiler - the 04/8s: From the LNER Encyclopedia - reproduced for educational purposes only. Thankyou, the picture shows the slidebar angle very well. Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted June 20, 2010 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 20, 2010 Thankyou, the picture shows the slidebar angle very well. Rob It also shows the tiny clearance between the pony truck wheel and the cylinder! The good news is that the Bachmann model is quite easy to dismantle. The cylinder/slidebar assembly comes off and although it hasn't been attempted yet, it looks as if it would be quite easy to put some suitable packing under the cylinder assembly and raise it up and correct the angle. The other thing about the Bachmann model is that the footplate/boiler/cab assemblies all come apart. So perhaps they intend other versions if this one sells. Of course the tinkering variety of modeller won't want to wait! Who is going to be first to conjure up a mating between a B1 boiler/cab and the O4 to get a round top firebox version (O4/8)? There is a challenge........ It won't be me, unless anybody can come up with a non photoshopped view of an O4/8 in GCR livery! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 It also shows the tiny clearance between the pony truck wheel and the cylinder! The good news is that the Bachmann model is quite easy to dismantle. The cylinder/slidebar assembly comes off and although it hasn't been attempted yet, it looks as if it would be quite easy to put some suitable packing under the cylinder assembly and raise it up and correct the angle. The other thing about the Bachmann model is that the footplate/boiler/cab assemblies all come apart. So perhaps they intend other versions if this one sells. Of course the tinkering variety of modeller won't want to wait! Who is going to be first to conjure up a mating between a B1 boiler/cab and the O4 to get a round top firebox version (O4/8)? There is a challenge........ It won't be me, unless anybody can come up with a non photoshopped view of an O4/8 in GCR livery! Have a look here http://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2141&start=45 Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted June 20, 2010 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 20, 2010 Have a look here http://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2141&start=45 Mick Somebody has been on the ball! That looks very tasty indeed. Mind you, there wouldn't be much Bachmann left on that one! At least on the O4/8 the footplate, cylinders and motion would remain. I hope that the release by Bachmann will result in a whole load of rebuilding exercises, just as they did on the real railway. Some are less involved (like converting the tender to a GC type or removing the vac brake)but those like the Thompson varieties will be really challenging. Something to suit all skills and abilities!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60B Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 I've thinking about one for "Isla Street" on fish traffic, which some were converted for. How long did those last? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rorz101uk Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 i can't wait for this model. it looks as good as the super D! At last year model railway show in loughborough the pre pro model runing and looks amzing then and now with paint on it, it licing on the cake. i would really like GCR 11F and J11 pom pom, i think the tender the same. im very an eastern region person, i'm very luck to have fired and drive the O4 since it been overhaul, its got a two year extension on its boiler ticket, so try to get a ride on it asap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedanticmongrel Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 i can't wait for this model. it looks as good as the super D! At last year model railway show in loughborough the pre pro model runing and looks amzing then and now with paint on it, it licing on the cake. i would really like GCR 11F and J11 pom pom, i think the tender the same. im very an eastern region person, i'm very luck to have fired and drive the O4 since it been overhaul, its got a two year extension on its boiler ticket, so try to get a ride on it asap. Like these 2? The thing is Bachmann have added a ROD tender, the back is wrong for doing any GCR loco, it needs a "big box" rather than a small dome for the scoop, obviously 63601 must have had hers swapped at some point in her career. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold LH&JC Posted June 21, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 21, 2010 On Rails of Sheffield's website 63601 and 6190 are due to arrive tomorrow, with any luck the Thompson coaches will be in the same delivery. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougN Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Well this is great news I have just checked the emails and with the comment from LH&JC one will be winiging its way out to me tomorrow. I just hope all the people in RofS are ready to deliver it all to the post office by the end of the day Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Garry D100 Posted June 21, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 21, 2010 According to Modelfair they are in stock now ! http://www.modelfair.com/whats_new.htm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluex5 Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Just had my email from hattons to let me know my order has been picked..not long now! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rorz101uk Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Like these 2? The thing is Bachmann have added a ROD tender, the back is wrong for doing any GCR loco, it needs a "big box" rather than a small dome for the scoop, obviously 63601 must have had hers swapped at some point in her career. lovely mate, would like they in BR colour tho. just need a rake of GCR coaches! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidw Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 photos of production models @ Hattons and Rails websites... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 Cast my eye over one in the flesh at HobbyRail earlier today, and it certainly seems to convey the gravitas and general heavyweight substance of the real thing, from what little I know of the subject. Finish appeared up to the standards we have come to expect, and executed with particular flair. Bachmann look to have captured the O4 convincingly, and although I profess no need for one and even less steam nous, it was refreshing to see something very markedly different from the diet of Big Four and Standards. I don't think you guys with pre-orders being filled as I type will be in the least bit disappointed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 7013 Posted June 22, 2010 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 22, 2010 Looks a beauty, it is easy to find things that one does not like about certain models, and what is wrong for one person is acceptable for another. There may be niggles on this loco but I think it looks lovely and will look great on layouts pulling a heavy freight train. I personally am waiting for the GWR ROD which will be a nice addition to my layout. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
neal Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 Mine should be here tomorrow, Can't wait - this is an iconic model and like the 7F and Super D has a certain 'je ne sais quoi'. Line of PO wagons await. N Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 photos of production models @ Hattons and Rails websites... And alas it appears that the cylinder and slidebar angle is very wrong. Hopefully simple to cure, but I'm not optomistic.. Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 And alas it appears that the cylinder and slidebar angle is very wrong. Hopefully simple to cure, but I'm not optomistic.. Rob I really don't think "very wrong" is a fair description. It's slightly off for the angle and height - it's not as if they put it on backwards I do think a lot of people are getting het up over nothing. Hornby Magazine noted the tight clearances between the pony truck, the cylinders and the slide bars. It may be set like this for a reason. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
neal Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 And alas it appears that the cylinder and slidebar angle is very wrong. Hopefully simple to cure, but I'm not optomistic.. Rob If you find it unacceptable Rob, then don't buy one! It's hardly a catastrophic error, and as some have suggested may well be down to practicalities of the running gear or clearances. I'll make my own mind up thanks. N p.s. the sky isn't falling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold LH&JC Posted June 23, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 23, 2010 I'll be collecting mine tomorrow so if no-one else beats me to it I'll try to add a few photos of it. I don't think that the slidebar inaccuracy is that big a deal for me, it looks like an 04 and will hopefully perform like an 04. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 I see a lively industry trying to convert the O4 into its various sub-groups, all the way up to O4/8! And what about the O5s - particularly the ones involved in the oil-fired and pulverised fuel experiments? Excuse for a large slab-sided bogie tender? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alleras Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 I'll be collecting mine tomorrow so if no-one else beats me to it I'll try to add a few photos of it. I don't think that the slidebar inaccuracy is that big a deal for me, it looks like an 04 and will hopefully perform like an 04. My thoughts entirely. I was about ready to cancel my order for the 04 altogether with all the negativity concerning inaccuracies in the gap between slidebar, cylinders etc.. Lets face it, if it's a couple of mm out then when it's performing on a layout (which after all is what it is primarily designed to do) who on earth is going to notice? How many of us view a model from beneath footplate level? Are we really getting that critical? I've been disgruntled in the past concerning models with inferior sound or poor performance which are I believe justifiable even considering the fact that we are talking about a 4mm scale model. Sound is always going to be a compromise at this scale but that shouldn't be an excuse for poor quality or shortcuts, whereas an express type locomotive incapable of hauling more than 5 coaches isn't really acceptable these days. A 2mm gap or so I can live with if it means having a loco of the quality we could only have dreamed of just a few years ago. However, if when my 04 arrives it is not capable of hauling a good sized train then I'll be back to vent my frustrations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 I think http://www.ehattons.com/images/products/31-003_20861_Qty1_1.jpg shows up the problem well and its noticable the crosshead points at the wrong wheel. Hopefully though the cylinders are separate and the slidebars aren't too constrained at the other end and can be packed at the rear to get them correctly aligned. I wonder if the steps interfere with the slide bars or something? I can't imagine there is any running issue with having them correct. Must admit though, compared to a S&DJR 2-8-0 or the GWR ones its a very ugly beast! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidw Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 My thoughts entirely. I was about ready to cancel my order for the 04 altogether with all the negativity concerning inaccuracies in the gap between slidebar, cylinders etc.. Lets face it, if it's a couple of mm out then when it's performing on a layout (which after all is what it is primarily designed to do) who on earth is going to notice? How many of us view a model from beneath footplate level? Are we really getting that critical? I've been disgruntled in the past concerning models with inferior sound or poor performance which are I believe justifiable even considering the fact that we are talking about a 4mm scale model. Sound is always going to be a compromise at this scale but that shouldn't be an excuse for poor quality or shortcuts, whereas an express type locomotive incapable of hauling more than 5 coaches isn't really acceptable these days. A 2mm gap or so I can live with if it means having a loco of the quality we could only have dreamed of just a few years ago. However, if when my 04 arrives it is not capable of hauling a good sized train then I'll be back to vent my frustrations. My understanding from the reviews is 40 + wagons is more than possible Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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