How many is too many of a loco class with same livery but a different name/number?

[OnTheBranchline]

I am debating getting 'Aberporth Grange' which would be my 4th Grange (which makes me think of the Peep Show skit "four naan, Jeremy, four! That's insane!"). I have 3 Granges already but it's a good price for a Grange. I don't know how I feel about owning more than one shirtbutton Granges (the other 3 are shirtbutton, shirtbutton (will turn into GW possibly), and black BR (turn into GWR).

 

When I buy the same loco class, I try to buy in a different livery each time (the 3 Castles I have all are all different (Great (crest) Western, shirtbutton, G W).

 

How does everyone else look at having multiples of the same loco class in the same livery?

[BoD]

You need one fewer than the total number of that class.

In that way you have an excuse to keep looking for the missing one.

[Steamport Southport]

944 is too many I believe. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LNWR_DX_Goods_class

 

 

Jason

[Steamport Southport]

Serious answer is it probably depends on what you are modelling.

 

Some locations had more of certain classes than others. Look at how many locomotives were allocated to a shed. A model of somewhere like Didcot engine shed wouldn't look wrong with a dozen Halls.

 

If you had a layout based on the WCML in the Midlands dated in the 1950s then it wouldn't be daft having virtually all the LMS Pacifics as they would pass through almost every day. L&YR Pugs would be exceedingly rare in the same location.

 

 

Jason

[jpendle]

I've got 7 N Gauge CL68's on my layout based on present day Wigan North Western.

 

4 are top and tailing 2 different nuclear flask trains, 1 is hauling an Intermodal and the other two are idle.

 

BUT once my 2 TPE liveried MK5 sets arrive I'll need at least one more because I only have 1 TPE liveried one so far (Brutus).

 

I expect I'll end up with 10 or more before I'm done, but the North West of England is where you'll most often find them.

 

Regards,

 

John P

[johndon]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

Serious answer is it probably depends on what you are modelling.

 

Some locations had more of certain classes than others. Look at how many locomotives were allocated to a shed. A model of somewhere like Didcot engine shed wouldn't look wrong with a dozen Halls.

 

 

Agreed, the line I'm modelling was wall to wall Class 37s in the 1970s, I've not counted how many different ones are in the photos I have but I'd be surprised if it's not 40-50.

[Miss Prism]

For Granges, there is the option of different tenders.

 

[Les Bird]

I have a layout based in East Anglia which has 2 B12's, 3 N7's, 2 J69's, 2 J15's and 2 D16's There was a time when there were 4 J15's and 4 D16's but I was running out of room! Oh, I forget, there are 3 J17's as well.

[Dungrange]

How many of the same loco class is too many?  I think that's one of the Ultimate Questions of Life, The Universe, and Everything, to which the answer is 42.

 

Seriously, I don't see anything wrong with four of the one class if they were common at the time and location you are trying to portray.  I've got half a dozen Class 66 locomotives in the same EWS livery, plus at least four in other liveries.

 

 

[OnTheBranchline]

1 hour ago, Miss Prism said:

For Granges, there is the option of different tenders.

 

Hornby doesn’t make an unlined 4000L G W Collett tender, do they?

[Miss Prism]

I don't know. Maybe for their Star? And what did Bachmann provide for their various Halls?

 

[Steamport Southport]

A mixture of 3500G Churchward, 4000G Collett and 4000G Hawksworth.

 

Dumbleton Hall had an unlined green 4000 Gallon with G crest W.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/251377/bachmann_branchline_class_49xx_hall_4_6_0_4920_dumbleton_hall_in_gwr_green/stockdetail

 

 

Jason

[Wheatley]

I think I'm up to 9 Black 5s, 5 Jubilees and (once they're all finished) 3 Clans so far. I'm modelling Dumfries - Stranraer, which was thick with them. 

[DCB]

5 hours ago, OnTheBranchline said:

I am debating getting 'Aberporth Grange' which would be my 4th Grange (which makes me think of the Peep Show skit "four naan, Jeremy, four! That's insane!"). I have 3 Granges already but it's a good price for a Grange. I don't know how I feel about owning more than one shirtbutton Granges (the other 3 are shirtbutton, shirtbutton (will turn into GW possibly), and black BR (turn into GWR).

When I buy the same loco class, I try to buy in a different livery each time (the 3 Castles I have all are all different (Great (crest) Western, shirtbutton, G W).

How does everyone else look at having multiples of the same loco class in the same livery?

An interesting conundrum.  For me one  Grange in Shirtbutton would be too many as its out of my period,  However  as long as  no two locos with the same number are on scene at once (Top Shed had two Mayflowers one day which caused consternation)   then about 320 would be a sensible limit, Black  with tender full of coal, Black with tender nearly empty,   Lined Green with Tender full /Tender empty.  That way the Grange could be represented on its outward journey fully coaled and on its return with depleted supplies You could go further, Green full Tender fat driver thin fireman, ditto empty tender, Thin river thin Fireman.,  so shall we say 1280 Granges.
Auto coaches are similar, one Autocoach on a BL would have different passengers so 7 trips per day you would need 14 autos to represent the differing passenger complement.  And that's only to cover one day.
Being sensible its entirely a personal choice,  A GWR Grange is a versatile beast equally as happy on 80 full coal wagons and the Cornish Riviera Express so the GW had 80 and wanted more.    Most modellers can't tell the difference between  a Saint/ Grange/ Hall/ Manor anyway.   Granges are boring.  Modified Halls are more interesting.  I have 7942  Dotheboys Hall,  7945 Harry Hall and last of class 7949  That's Hall on my wish List.

[pH]

7 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

If you had a layout based on the WCML in the Midlands dated in the 1950s then it wouldn't be daft having virtually all the LMS Pacifics as they would pass through almost every day.

Including all the Polmadie ones?

[PaulG]

Colchester shed allocation of J15 0-6-0 ran into double figures, plus visiting members of the class in early BR days.

 

So I've a "few" Hornby J15 models, all renumbered accordingly, on my Colchester c1955 layout. 

 

Edited October 6, 2023 by PaulG

[Jim Martin]

Unless you're modelling a very early railway, or some sort of light railway, multiple locomotives of the same type are prototypical.

 

I'm modelling the WCML in the 2000s. Freightliner generally used either a single class 90 or a pair of 86s on their container trains. I want to be able to have two trains passing each other, both hauled by a pair of green 86s or one hauled by a pair of green 86s and the other by a green/grey combo. To that end, I've just acquired my fourth green 86 and another will be coming in due course. There will be some detail differences, particularly around the fire suppression tanks on the roof, but in general I'm a big fan of multiple locomotives that look the same.

 

Jim

[Happy Hippo]

8 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

A mixture of 3500G Churchward, 4000G Collett and 4000G Hawksworth.

 

Dumbleton Hall had an unlined green 4000 Gallon with G crest W.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/251377/bachmann_branchline_class_49xx_hall_4_6_0_4920_dumbleton_hall_in_gwr_green/stockdetail

 

 

Jason

You've missed out the 3500 gallon Collett tender🤣

[Steamport Southport]

6 hours ago, pH said:

Including all the Polmadie ones?

 

They did often work to Euston. I picked the Midlands as you then would get locomotives working to and from Holyhead, Liverpool and Manchester as well.

 

But my main point is that if you are modelling a mainline then big locos are more common than others. Same applies to GWR Kings and Castles, LNER Pacifics and SR Bulleid Pacifics, LNs and N15s. Even works in the modern era as well. If you are modelling the WCML then you'll need more than one Pendolino for example.

 

I do notice quite a few threads where some one will say "I've got an A4 I don't need another one". Unless you are modelling the preservation era any place that saw A4s would probably have seen a few of them.

 

There is a strange phenomena of "one of everything".

 

 

Jason

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, Happy Hippo said:

You've missed out the 3500 gallon Collett tender🤣

 

Bachmann don't make one as far as I know. I was replying to what Hall tenders Bachmann make.

 

Could do with a couple though as I think at least one of my Halls really should have one according to the Irwell book. It's still got a Churchward version. Obviously most were swapped for the 4000 gallon pretty quickly.

 

My only Grange is a K's kit still in the box and that has a Churchward type as well. GWR tenders really are a minefield. 

 

 

Jason

[pH]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

I do notice quite a few threads where some one will say "I've got an A4 I don't need another one". Unless you are modelling the preservation era any place that saw A4s would probably have seen a few of them.

 

There is a strange phenomena of "one of everything".

 

Defined in several posts on here as the “Half Noah”.

 

[Clive Mortimore]

17 hours ago, OnTheBranchline said:

I am debating getting 'Aberporth Grange' which would be my 4th Grange (which makes me think of the Peep Show skit "four naan, Jeremy, four! That's insane!"). I have 3 Granges already but it's a good price for a Grange. I don't know how I feel about owning more than one shirtbutton Granges (the other 3 are shirtbutton, shirtbutton (will turn into GW possibly), and black BR (turn into GWR).

 

When I buy the same loco class, I try to buy in a different livery each time (the 3 Castles I have all are all different (Great (crest) Western, shirtbutton, G W).

 

How does everyone else look at having multiples of the same loco class in the same livery?

Hi ya,

 

Not really too sure about your question.

With only 2 painted the wrong colours it is hard with Brush type 2's in my modelling period not to have more than one in the same livery.

 

Even harder with English Electric type 4s

 

And type 3s

Again Brush type 4s are a problem, thankfully Lion and Falcon throw in a bit of variety. 

 

Some lazy bloke in the paint shop still hasn't got round to painting the black one.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

17 hours ago, OnTheBranchline said:

How does everyone else look at having multiples of the same loco class in the same livery?

Of the dominant classes in the regular allocation, sufficient to cover first the working turns the class operated, and then the major variations in the period modelled. Everything else seen in the location, one example in the form I most like.

[The Johnster]

Let’s say you’re modelling a South Wales colliery branch in the Tondu area in the 1948-58 time frame (and by strange coincidence, I am).  This, beyond it’s particularly South Walian attributes, is a more or less typical BLT, and is fed from a fiddle yard. This fiddle yard represents the line down the valley to Tondu, and thence the rest of BR.  It is possible that every locomotive and item of stock running on the system at that time could appear from under that bridge, but unlikely.  
 

What is likely is that the entire allocation of TDU’s locos and passenger stock will appear at some time or other over that decade.  Ok, let’s discount the 44xx for the Porthcawl branch and the post-1953 TVR auto-trailers, that’s ballpark 50 locos, mostly 57xx/8750, 56xx, 42xx, 4575 post ’53, 94xx, couple large prairies.  About the same number of passenger coaches and auto-trailers.  
 

It is entirely likely that two 57xx, or two 56xx, would be seen simultaneously at any of TDU’s branch termini; the ‘half noah’ is not realistic in most cases.  
 

But this branch did not exist in reality (it is in an actual location that is a remote wooded side-valley with no road access; there was a tramroad leading to a forge at one time, long gone by my period but the basis for my branch, and if it had existed I reckon TDU’s allocation would have gone up by perhaps half a dozen engines to deal with the extra traffic.  So we are saying that I need to model about 56 locos, TDU’s actual allocation plus six Rule 1 additions. 
 

But hang on a mo, the actual allocation changed over the ten years, some locos transferred away and were replaced by others xfer in.  We are up to about 120 engines now.  Seven are sufficient to work the timetable and I have thirteen, not counting NCB.  All bar one are actual TDU allocations, and I have chosen numbers that spent.  There is a Rule 1 addition, a renumbered Baccy 3MT 82001, transferred from Barry where it wasn’t liked.  If I had lotto cash, I’d probably rebuild the layout to take longer coal trains and might conceivably have a go at owning all the relevant TDU allocations in all the livery variations.  I can justify owning more locos than the timetable needs because real locos are taken out of service every ten working days for boiler washouts, which take two working days.  There are the scheduled overhauls on a mileage basis as well, taking locos out of play for about five weeks at a time. 
 

The Rule 1 extra allocations to cope with the branch’s extra traffic is very crudely based on TDU covering five branches, Porthcawl, Abergwynfi, Blaengarw, Nantymoel, and Cwmdimbath, as well as some main line work.  It allows for up to five engines that could theoretically be classes not actually ever allox TDU; see 82001.  All five being new types would be unlikely, but there might be a role for my long-unfinished TVR rebuilt A and Rhymney R.  The 44xx were for the Porthcawl branches vicious curves, and I cannot find any evidence that they ever went north of the shed, which is a mark against the upcoming Rapido model, but I think we all know where this is going… And there is 3100, a 1938 Collett large prairie with a no.4 boiler pressed to 250psi and 5’3” drivers, bit of a thug.  This was the booked engine for the daily through Porthcawl-Cardiff commuter service, but there is a photo of it at Abergwnfi in 1951.   And there’s my five Rule 1 extras…
 

Passenger stock is mostly renumbered as known TDU allocations, and sll of the auto-trailers are correct for the depot.  But NPCCS, goods, and mineral stock could justifiably include everything that BR owned, half a million XPO minerals to kick off with!  Fortunately, it is considered acceptable in railway modelling circles to compromise in this respect…

[OnTheBranchline]

2 hours ago, pH said:

 

Defined in several posts on here as the “Half Noah”.

 

Probably coming from a place of “I only have so much funds, do I need an extra of something?”