HS125's to Mexico.

[Enterprisingwestern]

11 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

Not as far as I know, they actually travelled at 125 MPH on very few occasions, that is the fastest attainable speed. Gearing down for a lower speed will increase the likelihood of overheating anyway. The only probable change would be to increase the fuel capacity as the line they're intended for is over 900 miles long (when finished), three times the typical distance they ran in the UK.

 

Also they needed more powerful fuel pumps to get the diesel the right way up in the injectors.

 

Mike.

[stewartingram]

Did they also have magnahesion so they didn't fall off the tracks?

[kernowtim]

24 minutes ago, stewartingram said:

Did they also have magnahesion so they didn't fall off the tracks?

Fitted with Traction tyres!!

[adb968008]

On 12/10/2023 at 09:44, PhilJ W said:

They should at least have yellow ends.

not a requirement in mexico, indeed not in both north and south american continents.

I could imagine a bell, for crossings might be appear though, thats a common standard.

 

On 12/10/2023 at 17:28, PhilJ W said:

The line they're intended for is designed for speeds up to 160 KPH, about 100 MPH.

Wrong line, aiui its being “upgraded” to 60mph

Coatzacoalcos To Salinas Cruz is c250mile, known as Isthmus of Tehuantepec
 

2 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

The only probable change would be to increase the fuel capacity as the line they're intended for is over 900 miles long (when finished), three times the typical distance they ran in the UK.

Wrong line. They arent for Tren Maya.

Coatzacoalcos To Salinas Cruz is c250mile, known as Isthmus of Tehuantepec

This line was closed due to poor maintenance over a decade ago, this is its comeback.

 

I await with amazement to see if TrenMayas brand new stock arrives in sufficient quantity to open on time, but Isthmus of Tehuantepec seems to be a motley collection second hand stock.

 

[adb968008]

On 12/10/2023 at 18:56, Nick_Burman said:

 

I, too, was there several years ago on the tourist path and my experience was that the roads were not near as bad as the one in the picture - at least the main ones, such as Merida - Valladolid - Tulum or the "local" (not toll) Merida - Campeche road. The pavement was in good shape (freshly repaved in a few places) and there was a frequent bus service providing several types of accommodation, we stuck to ADO (Autobuses de Oriente) because they were the ones with the A/C buses. Saw very little rail activity, some switching around Merida station and signs of traffic (palleted cement) at Valladolid. Track was in absolutely parlous condition there.

 

Cheers NB

 

 

 

Agreed there are some good roads, primary tourists.

 

My first ever trip to Mexico was a border weekender from LA. After the border theres a free way south which we joined, after a short stint in the fast lane, my mate noticed another freeway paralell to us, at similar speed, and I saw a car come past us on the left lane…

I had managed to drive wrong way onto the freeway from Tijuana to Rosarita. Once I saw I was driving english style, I pulled over, stopped and u-turned. We went back up freway and off onto the slip road, and reversed dog legged a curve to get to the right side.. somewhat shaken I had failed to see how hard that dog leg was, the cliff edge in front of me, my approach speed and the emerging  big blue truck bearing down on me heading from the right side…

I floored the pontiac sunfire, my mate in the passenger seat had a toilet emergency and we sped off onto the right side of the freeway!  How that corner was made I dont know, as I think i’d already closed my eyes. At that we stopped next town and decided this would do for a night and hit the bar instead.

Aversge high street picture in the northern border, except the only reason for this picture was… note the fella with a shotgun in the wing mirror..

 

welcome to Mexico.

 

 

Edited October 13, 2023 by adb968008

[PhilJ W]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

Wrong line. They arent for Tren Maya.

Coatzacoalcos To Salinas Cruz is c250mile, known as Isthmus of Tehuantepec

This line was closed due to poor maintenance over a decade ago, this is its comeback.

 

I await with amazement to see if TrenMayas brand new stock arrives in sufficient quantity to open on time, but Isthmus of Tehuantepec seems to be a motley collection second hand stock.

 

It clearly states in the article I posted in the first post of this topic that the 125's were intended for Tren Maya. However that line isn't anywhere near complete yet so it's possible that they have been transferred elsewhere.

[adb968008]

8 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

It clearly states in the article I posted in the first post of this topic that the 125's were intended for Tren Maya. However that line isn't anywhere near complete yet so it's possible that they have been transferred elsewhere.

The article is wrong, strange as Railway Gazette and International Rail Journal were published at the same time…

 

https://www.railwaygazette.com/traction-and-rolling-stock/british-hsts-among-fleets-finding-new-homes-in-mexico/64818.article

 

https://www.railjournal.com/fleet/mexico-receives-british-hst-fleet-for-isthmus-of-tehuantepec-railway/

 

This article (US site) Trains describes both lines and some of the stock, G&W (aka Freightliner ) used to operate the line but now its a Mexican navy project.

 

https://www.trains.com/trn/britain_u-s-_passenger_equipment_heads_to_mexico/
 

the liveries and logos themselves are a giveaway..

 

Trenmaya..

 

https://trenmayaa.com/en/

 

https://www.alstom.com/press-releases-news/2023/7/alstom-delivers-first-cars-tren-maya-railway-project

 

Ferrocarril del Istmo de Tehuantepec

 

https://www.ferroistmo.com.mx

 

https://twitter.com/mr_w_snapper/status/1703687430673453203/photo/1

 

There is suggestion the two may meet someday. 

I am surprised more havent yet moved to Mexico, given a few months have passed. I still do not see how passengers will board the HST, my experience in Mexico is concrete hard standings at rail level for platforms.. so shinning up the side step of a carriage end probably wont go down well.  The ex-Amtrak stock has steps fitted as per normal for North America to board from Rail level.

 

This maybe a barrier to wider use of the HST if suitable boarding steps over the bogie need to be made, and fit in gauge, or movable steps at stations need to be constructed for boarding ? Perhaps they have a cunning solution with all those TGS’s in mind ? Maybe they will all board through the power cars or build ramped platforms ?

 

we shall see..
 

I had heard suggestions of Africa for some HST stock too.

 

Edited October 14, 2023 by adb968008

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

I can't be the only one who finds it amazing that the most comfortable rolling on BR is being shipped off to foreign climes, leaving us with trains that seem to run on the equivalent of skateboard suspension with seats about as comfortable as an ironing board.

 

Mike.

[John Isherwood]

42 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

I can't be the only one who finds it amazing that the most comfortable rolling on BR is being shipped off to foreign climes, leaving us with trains that seem to run on the equivalent of skateboard suspension with seats about as comfortable as an ironing board.

 

Mike.

 

Another case of the tail wagging the dog!

 

No doubt we will be given a myriad reasons why a total rebuild / update was not possible, but I certainly can't bring to mind such a number of fatal / life-changing collisions involving HSTs that would justify them being 'blacked'.

 

If they are thought capable of operating services three times the length of their former operations, the baby is being thrown out with the bathwater!

 

CJI.

[PhilJ W]

5 hours ago, adb968008 said:

I am surprised more havent yet moved to Mexico, given a few months have passed. I still do not see how passengers will board the HST, my experience in Mexico is concrete hard standings at rail level for platforms.. so shinning up the side step of a carriage end probably wont go down well.  The ex-Amtrak stock has steps fitted as per normal for North America to board from Rail level.

This maybe a barrier to wider use of the HST if suitable boarding steps over the bogie need to be made, and fit in gauge, or movable steps at stations need to be constructed for boarding ? Perhaps they have a cunning solution with all those TGS’s in mind ? Maybe they will all board through the power cars or build ramped platforms ?

 

I had heard suggestions of Africa for some HST stock too.

My understanding is that platforms will be built to give step free access.

 

5 hours ago, adb968008 said:

I had heard suggestions of Africa for some HST stock too.

Most African lines are of metre or three foot six inches gauge. The only standard gauge lines are in Egypt and North Africa. Whereas it won't be difficult to convert the coaches (Mk. II's in New Zealand) the power cars are another matter.

 

4 hours ago, cctransuk said:

No doubt we will be given a myriad reasons why a total rebuild / update was not possible, but I certainly can't bring to mind such a number of fatal / life-changing collisions involving HSTs that would justify them being 'blacked'.

Possibly because of their diesel engines but then they could possibly converted to dual mode or even all electric.

[John Isherwood]

6 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

Possibly because of their diesel engines but then they could possibly converted to dual mode or even all electric.

 

There will be diesel engines operating on British Railways for years to come.

 

Conversion to bi-mode might well have been possible, but I see no justification whatsoever for disposing of assets that had many advantages over their replacements.

 

So typical of the UK nowadays, sadly.

 

CJI.

Edited October 14, 2023 by cctransuk

[EddieB]

7 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

Most African lines are of metre or three foot six inches gauge. The only standard gauge lines are in Egypt and North Africa. Whereas it won't be difficult to convert the coaches (Mk. II's in New Zealand) the power cars are another matter.

 

China is building standard gauge railways in Sub-Saharan Africa, examples being in Ghana, Kenya and Ethiopia/Djibouti.

[woodenhead]

7 hours ago, EddieB said:

China is building standard gauge railways in Sub-Saharan Africa, examples being in Ghana, Kenya and Ethiopia/Djibouti.

It's just not connecting them together and then leaving countries like Kenya with a massive loan that income from said joined up railway was meant to generate which may lead to a default and rather stringent penalties.  The cynic would say they were never meant to be able to pay that loan because the consequences favour China, but I am sure they did want to build a nice long standard gauge railway across Africa.

[adb968008]

Rumours suggest 43008 (intercity) maybe on its way to Nigeria for the Lagos - Kano HS project this week with several others.

 

I had heard this as a rumour a month ago, during the XC farewell, but wasnt sure.

 

links back to Chinese funding retreating from railway projects in Africa, and this project…

 

 

A further number of GWR power cars are being prepped for Mexico, numbers suggested are 43010,16,40,192.

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by adb968008

[black and decker boy]

Posted over on WNXX news page today:

 

The general cargo ship 'Panthera J' has spent the weekend at anchor near Great Yarmouth, ready for docking at the port and the commencement of loading power cars and stock tomorrow. Panthera J is a similar type of ship used for the shipment of the power cars and stock to Mexico, is registered in Liberia and has sailed in from the Netherlands.

[black and decker boy]

On 14/10/2023 at 13:47, cctransuk said:

 

There will be diesel engines operating on British Railways for years to come.

 

Conversion to bi-mode might well have been possible, but I see no justification whatsoever for disposing of assets that had many advantages over their replacements.

 

So typical of the UK nowadays, sadly.

 

CJI.

DfT has instructed the removal of XC and GWR HSTs on cost grounds. Treasury wanted savings so stock reductions form

part of the ‘plan’. The Chiltern LHCS are part of the same plan.

 

many of the MTU lumps were running out of hours and approaching a major rebuild so that expense has also been saved.

 

both Chiltern & GWR fought hard that they needed the capacity provided by these so have got a stay of execution for some. When more DMUs hit the off lease market, the plan will be completed.

 

Scotrail is different, HSTs on section 54 lease until 2030. Union ‘black listing’ not carried through as modifications have been made. Medium term, who knows what could happen up there.

[John Isherwood]

2 hours ago, black and decker boy said:

DfT has instructed the removal of XC and GWR HSTs on cost grounds. Treasury wanted savings so stock reductions form

part of the ‘plan’. The Chiltern LHCS are part of the same plan.

 

many of the MTU lumps were running out of hours and approaching a major rebuild so that expense has also been saved.

 

both Chiltern & GWR fought hard that they needed the capacity provided by these so have got a stay of execution for some. When more DMUs hit the off lease market, the plan will be completed.

 

Scotrail is different, HSTs on section 54 lease until 2030. Union ‘black listing’ not carried through as modifications have been made. Medium term, who knows what could happen up there.

 

I fail to see how HSTs are economical to run in Scotland until 2030, and be very expensively exported to Mexico; (presumably without major rebuild); but not in England or Wales.

 

I fully accept that this is by government directive, but I also fail to see how replacing viable rolling stock with new, expensive, inferior stock can be a cost-saving - unless building new stock is somehow advantageous to the government.

 

CJI.

Edited October 16, 2023 by cctransuk

[Michael Hodgson]

On 14/10/2023 at 13:47, cctransuk said:

 

There will be diesel engines operating on British Railways for years to come.

 

Conversion to bi-mode might well have been possible, but I see no justification whatsoever for disposing of assets that had many advantages over their replacements.

 

So typical of the UK nowadays, sadly.

 

CJI.

Yeah.  We could still be using the 9Fs.

[black and decker boy]

56 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

I fail to see how HSTs are economical to run in Scotland until 2030, and be very expensively exported to Mexico; (presumably without major rebuild); but not in England or Wales.

 

I fully accept that this is by government directive, but I also fail to see how replacing viable rolling stock with new, expensive, inferior stock can be a cost-saving - unless building new stock is somehow advantageous to the government.

 

CJI.

Simple, no one is building new stock.

The HSTs are either not replaced (see XC) or will be replaced later on (on GWR) by cascaded 15x sprinters (ex-TfW). Chiltern will ultimately see DMU cascades to replace the LHCS but what DMU hasn’t been publicly identified as yet.

 

DfT & Treasury do not think rail travel needs all its pre covid capacity as generalised passenger numbers are down and revenue is very down. That means cuts. Reducing train lengths in order to reduce fleet size and save money is therefore part of the cost cutting plan. The impact of shorter formations on those unlucky enough to use the trains seems unnoticed by the mandarins.

 

running 2+4 HSTs was only ever a stop gap on GWR due to lack of spare 15x or 16x and operating costs are known to be a lot higher than running a sprinter.

[Enterprisingwestern]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

unless building new stock is somehow advantageous to the government.

 

Brown paper envelopes anybody?

 

Mike.

[John Isherwood]

1 minute ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Brown paper envelopes anybody?

 

Mike.

 

You may say that - but I could not possibly comment! 😉

 

CJI.

[adb968008]

Revenue and passenger numbers are down, but are they cutting costs and reducing stock in those same places ?

 

Theres still a lot of fresh air being pushed around London. I’m surprised some Thameslink stock hasnt been reduced in length yet, especially out to Kent… WfH was that bad this year Kent had a water shortage due to those new budding wfh gardeners.

Edited October 16, 2023 by adb968008

[Forward!]

3 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Revenue and passenger numbers are down, but are they cutting costs and reducing stock in those same places ?

 

Theres still a lot of fresh air being pushed around London. I’m surprised some Thameslink stock hasnt been reduced in length yet, especially out to Kent… WfH was that bad this year Kent had a water shortage due to those new budding wfh gardeners.

 

Everywhere. I was on an LNER service to York this morning, arriving at 09:30- formerly just about the peak time for long-distance business journeys for people attending meetings. I had the whole carriage to myself. The trains are busier at the weekends now, and LNER is increasingly being operated like a budget airline alternative for tourists. They've even started doing engineering works during the working week.

[adb968008]

Just now, Forward! said:

 

Everywhere. I was on an LNER service to York this morning, arriving at 09:30- formerly just about the peak time for long-distance business journeys for people attending meetings. I had the whole carriage to myself. The trains are busier at the weekends now, and LNER is increasingly being operated like a budget airline alternative for tourists. They've even started doing engineering works during the working week.

I think theyve stopped maintaining the southern, there was for a period a constant stream of weekend ballast workings down here, every weekend, often involving 6 trains per posession… its definitely down in volume and frequency.

[Talltim]

23 minutes ago, Forward! said:

 

Everywhere. I was on an LNER service to York this morning, arriving at 09:30- formerly just about the peak time for long-distance business journeys for people attending meetings. I had the whole carriage to myself. The trains are busier at the weekends now, and LNER is increasingly being operated like a budget airline alternative for tourists. They've even started doing engineering works during the working week.

On many lines weekends are now busier than weekdays, so doing engineering weekdays is the lesser of two evils