2 mile 1-in-100 gradiant climb from Box Station - which banker locos & which workings needed them?

[Titan]

Just now, BachelorBoy said:

 

Even The Rocket?

Indeed. It managed Liverpool to Manchester OK which is about the same distance, just reduce the load accordingly

[phil_sutters]

Just 'cos there's a bit of interest...... more of Dad's Exeter shots. 

Edited September 8, 2023 by phil_sutters

[OnTheBranchline]

6 hours ago, phil_sutters said:

Are you talking about south Africa? Bankers were in use in this country until the end of steam.

 

I remember from one of those Railway Roundabouts films that the LMS men didn't really like the GWR engines (I think in particular the 42xx 2-8-0 class) and preferred their Jintys as bankers. 

Edited September 8, 2023 by OnTheBranchline

[Michael Hodgson]

5 hours ago, BachelorBoy said:

 

Yup. I am disappointed that so few enthusiasts in Britian seem to care or even know about these fantastic machines made in Manchester.

 

Some of Britain's finest engineering achievements. 

 

 

I din't think South African locos were ever used as bankers at Box.

[Wickham Green too]

1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

I din't think South African locos were ever used as bankers at Box.

Yeah - two of them side by side !

[phil_sutters]

Clearly too short a train to require banking.

[Wickham Green too]

Shame they used an O gauge signal post - someone's elbow will clobber that pretty soon !🙄

[Steamport Southport]

12 hours ago, BachelorBoy said:

 

Yup. I am disappointed that so few enthusiasts in Britian seem to care or even know about these fantastic machines made in Manchester.

 

Some of Britain's finest engineering achievements. 

 

 

 

Yawn. I would like to see how one of those would cope with the Mersey Tunnel's 1 in 27 gradient! Preserve of small tank engines that could easily do it.

 

 

I would also like one of those Garratts pulling an express non stop from London to Glasgow with 20 plus carriages without a banker. Reaching speeds of over 100 MPH and over 3000HP measured at the cylinders (official with Dynamometer Car). That's 400 miles BTW.

 

Duchesses could do that with ease. 

 

 

BTW Rocket could manage over 30 MPH with a loaded train, so the journey to Manchester took about an hour if you dismiss the water stop needed due to it's small water capacity. Not much longer than it takes now with modern EMUs.

 

Maybe do the research before belittling Britain.

 

 

Jason

[The Johnster]

10 hours ago, OnTheBranchline said:

 

I remember from one of those Railway Roundabouts films that the LMS men didn't really like the GWR engines (I think in particular the 42xx 2-8-0 class) and preferred their Jintys as bankers. 

 

This is almost standard procedure wherever new engines were introduced or trialled.  The crews worked the engines on specific turns, banking at Bromsgrove with Jinties as backup for Big Bertha for many years.  They got accustomed to each job's requirments, where and how to change regulator settings, the reverser, where and how much to fire, where and when the loco would need water injecting into the boiler, sometimes to prevent blowing off at the safety valves which was a waste of steam, where to shut off steam, when and how hard to apply brakes, all the constant activity that takes place on a steam locomotive footplate.  Day in, day out, the job got refined and the best results obtained using the minimum amount of coal, water, and fireman's sweat.  And everybody got to go home on time.

 

Then, some fule com along and decide that a 42xx is more powerful than a Jinty, brilliant banking heavy iron ore trains at Aberbeeg, arranges for some to be sent up to Bromsgrove, and expects the men to be happier with their big new engines.  Hmm.  A 42xx is a quite different propostion to a Jinty, and all that day-in-day-out stuff would have to be re-learned from scratch, mistakes in the process not endearing the new engines.  42xx were driven from the right hand side of the cab, and the cab was not particularly roomy, so the firemen had to be careful about what they hit with the shovel (especially if it was the driver). And the firebox was longer and needed a differnt technique.  No wonder they preferred Jinties! 

 

They ended up with 94xx, which had a lot of the 'drawbacks' (as the Midland men would have regarded normal GWR practice) of the 42xx, but had them long enough to work out the wrinkles and get used to them.  They rated them as 1 and a half Jinties, quite a complement.  Then they got Hymeks, and anyone who is given a Hymek to play with for 8 hours and paid for it is a very fortunate man indeed, pocket rockets with comfy, quiet, cabs.

 

Loco crew are intrinsically small c conservative, and once they have sorted out the best way to do a job will prefer to continue to do it exactly that way with exactly that equipment.  They don't like change, but they love to complain about it to anyone who will listen...

[BachelorBoy]

2 hours ago, The Johnster said:

 

 

Loco crew are intrinsically small c conservative, and once they have sorted out the best way to do a job will prefer to continue to do it exactly that way with exactly that equipment.  They don't like change, but they love to complain about it to anyone who will listen...

There is a lot to be said for that in something as complicated as the railways, especially when safety is concerned.

 

[BachelorBoy]

6 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

Maybe do the research before belittling Britain.

 

I am doing the opposite.

 

I am celebrating British achievement.

 

I just think it's a pity that British railway achievements overseas aren't celebrated more.

 

Aren't these beauties? (The first loco was built by Kitson in 1855 is said to be the world's oldest working steam loco in service ... I'm not sure I like the paint job, though)

 

 

 

 

 

[The Johnster]

5 hours ago, BachelorBoy said:

There is a lot to be said for that in something as complicated as the railways, especially when safety is concerned.

 

A consideration that was certainly one of the reasons for it. 

[Wickham Green too]

9 hours ago, The Johnster said:

... 42xx were driven from the right hand side of the cab, ...

3F tanks - sorry, I'm not going to use the 'J' word - were right-hand drive .... but they didn't have such enormous tanks and firebox to block the buffering-up view !

[The Johnster]

Good point about the tanks.  Practice at Aberbeeg was to couple the banker in rear, which then acted as the train engine on the return leg down the bank while the original train engine acted as a steam-powered brake van.  Saved shunting and running around at Ebbw Vale steelworks, but no help at Bromsgrove where bankers were not attached and dropped off at Blackwell while the trains they’d banked disappeared into the wide blue yonder, or Birmingham as some call it…  

[keefer]

7 hours ago, BachelorBoy said:

I just think it's a pity that British railway achievements overseas aren't celebrated more

The North British works in Glasgow are tarred with the poor reputation of their diesels but prior to that built hundreds of steam locos for export.

[Wickham Green too]

1 hour ago, keefer said:

The North British works ... built hundreds of steam locos for export.

... not to mention hundreds of our favourite domestic locos !

[keefer]

4 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

... not to mention hundreds of our favourite domestic locos !

I must admit I wasn't sure which/how many British locos there were but I was more aware of the exports.

Probably from seeing many of the famous photos of the latest locomotive for South Africa or wherever, set up on a plinth in George Square or wherever.

Edited September 9, 2023 by keefer

[The Stationmaster]

Going back to the OP - remember hso question? - ths is the 1911 arrangement for Corsham and Box.  the gradient through Box Tunnel is 1 in 100 which is the same for the first 1.5 miles ontlof Dauntsey Bank,

 

[Wickham Green too]

1 hour ago, keefer said:

I must admit I wasn't sure which/how many British locos there were ...

Under the NBL 'brand' you can include, perhaps most famously, Royal Scots, B1s and lots of WD 2-8-0s - but, prior to the 1903 amalgamation, thousands of locos from the Sharp, Stewart, Neilson, Reid and Dübs constituents.