Greater Anglia / TfW Class 755 & Class 756 FLIRT Units

[JackB95]

Some more pictures published today! I'm thirsty for more! 

 

 

 

 

 

More shots, and information about the development, in their latest Engine Shed issue here. 

 

[Sir TophamHatt]

Guess there hasn't been any further updates for this?

I do wish Hornby would have some sort of projects page with each project a link to news about it and it's progress.

[Legend]

33 minutes ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

Guess there hasn't been any further updates for this?

I do wish Hornby would have some sort of projects page with each project a link to news about it and it's progress.

I think there are just too many variables at the moment , manufacturing capacity, longer transit times because of the Red Sea issues . It’s just difficult to predict when things will arrive 

[Johan DC]

3 hours ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

Guess there hasn't been any further updates for this?

I do wish Hornby would have some sort of projects page with each project a link to news about it and its progress.

Apart from the renders in the latest Engine Shed nothing much. They could indeed be more open about ongoing projects.

[GenericRMWebUsername]

13 hours ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

Guess there hasn't been any further updates for this?

I do wish Hornby would have some sort of projects page with each project a link to news about it and it's progress.

I suspect that we'll see some concrete information on this product next week at the Key Model World NEC show. There should be new photographs of samples and probably a more solid date on when to expect them. They were aiming for April, but that's looking like it will slip. Either way, we should have a better idea by next week. 

[Sir TophamHatt]

23 hours ago, Legend said:

I think there are just too many variables at the moment , manufacturing capacity, longer transit times because of the Red Sea issues . It’s just difficult to predict when things will arrive 

Just to confirm, I wasn't specifically asking when they'll arrive, just the latest update.
IE, have they been RTM or still in painted samples stage, or on a boat somewhere...

 

Will wait for after the show and see :)

Edited April 22 by Sir TophamHatt

[ruggedpeak]

Comprehensive update in the Engine Shed from Hornby on this including 3 decoders on board to give the right sounds in the right parts of the unit.

 

https://uk.Hornby.com/community/blog-and-news/engine-shed/symphony-stadler-and-steam

 

 

[NXEA!]

3 hours ago, ruggedpeak said:

Comprehensive update in the Engine Shed from Hornby on this including 3 decoders on board to give the right sounds in the right parts of the unit.

 

https://uk.Hornby.com/community/blog-and-news/engine-shed/symphony-stadler-and-steam

 

 

That looks unbelievable, seriously impressive, and Hornby have upped their game with the spec IMO.

[JackB95]

On 04/10/2024 at 20:49, NXEA! said:

That looks unbelievable, seriously impressive, and Hornby have upped their game with the spec IMO.

 

I'll agree there! The separated sounds is a clever idea, and it looks to be a beautiful model. 

 

Although I do wonder if they could've done something about through-wiring to require only one decoder for basic operation, and a second for the diesel sounds in the power pack if the owner desired. 

 

The magnetic decoder access etc is all very good.

[adb968008]

The drivers desk looks like a sticker to me.

😃

 

Hornby url link

 

 

I dont see any through wiring for the power pack from these bogies, so is each vehicle individually wired ? (i’m suspecting that as it needs 3 decoders .. yes thats right 3 decoders !!! that maybe the case).. 

 

The connection, gangway, bogie plate interface looks similar to how Rivarossi’s PKP articulated coaches were assembled. (These were also a Hornby product) and a little finnicky to assembly, but make a seamless / non-gap connection between vehicles whilst still going around sharp curves, so its overall nice.

 

 

Edited October 6 by adb968008

[ruggedpeak]

2 or 3 decoders depending on whether the full FLIRT sound experience of electric and diesel.

 

I'm assuming from the diagram that there are electrical connections between the DMS and the intermediate passenger coach at each end (to operate the lights), but not from the intermediate to the PP (Power Pack).

 

 

[hellotojasonisaacs]

I was after one of these but the DCC set up makes it prohibitively expensive for me. I might wait until they are being shifted at bargain prices, if we get there

[ColinB]

9 minutes ago, hellotojasonisaacs said:

I was after one of these but the DCC set up makes it prohibitively expensive for me. I might wait until they are being shifted at bargain prices, if we get there

Generally you only need a decent DCC decoder for the drive unit, the rest are just for lights. LaisDCC 21 pin decoders are about £11.00, you only need them for lighting, so just use these.

[ColinB]

1 hour ago, ruggedpeak said:

2 or 3 decoders depending on whether the full FLIRT sound experience of electric and diesel.

 

I'm assuming from the diagram that there are electrical connections between the DMS and the intermediate passenger coach at each end (to operate the lights), but not from the intermediate to the PP (Power Pack).

 

 

From what I gather from the Hornby Forum this functionality is not available for the HM7000 app at this moment in time. I suppose they hope to update it when they release the Flirt units. They would have done better to have just used the same system as they use on the class 73, where the sound can switch between diesel and electric. I can see a lot of issues with this arrangement on pure DCC, the two driver units I imagine don't have a motor so how can you link the sound to the back emf.

Edited October 6 by ColinB

[E100]

Whilst I understand the desire for the sounds to go from each end and the centre this does feel like a way to increase decoder sales at the same time. It would have been a pragmatic move to through wire the outer ends therefore only requiring one or two rather than three decoders.

[ColinB]

We will have to wait and see when the units are released. Hopefully one of the commercial sound retailers will come up with a better solution. I assume it is like the class 73, it either runs as a diesel or electric so what is the issue with a sound decoder that does both rather than 3.

[E100]

I guess the problem that this solution is trying to overcome (assuming that through wiring isn't impossible for some reason) is that a single decoder can't drive speakers in different locations without them all being driven identically i.e. one set of speaker outputs on the chip.

 

The argument goes that the sound of the diesel needs to come from the diesel pack but that's a long way from the ends where the horns are therefore for it to be correct you need to have the speakers driven independently.

 

As I say one way around this is for the two ends to at least be through wired so only two decoders are needed for the complete setup.

 

I personally do feel that driving multiple independent speakers is the next step for DCC decoders to make though from a personal perspective I'm very hard pushed to notice a speaker from the tender and not the chimney / one end of a unit or another at any reasonable distance the point where I'd suggest one good decoder with one very good speaker would serve me just fine in all but the longest units.

 

[PeterStiles]

43 minutes ago, E100 said:

 

As I say one way around this is for the two ends to at least be through wired so only two decoders are needed for the complete setup

But the point is a, surely, to have the correct noises coming from the correct points, so the ends make Electricy noises and the middles makes Dieselly noises.

This is just the same as the O gauge loco announced with two decoders for the same thing - to get the noises coming from the correct places, just like how some people dislike having the Speaker in the Tender of a steam loco...

 

And Hornby's point is that with the TTX decoders you don't have to spend over £300 on your three decoders...

[ColinB]

1 minute ago, PeterStiles said:

But the point is a, surely, to have the correct noises coming from the correct points, so the ends make Electricy noises and the middles makes Dieselly noises.

This is just the same as the O gauge loco announced with two decoders for the same thing - to get the noises coming from the correct places, just like how some people dislike having the Speaker in the Tender of a steam loco...

 

And Hornby's point is that with the TTX decoders you don't have to spend over £300 on your three decoders...

Yes but you do have the issue that the two at the ends are not driving a motor. Hornby hope to overcome this with some clever Consist logic on their HM7000 App. Personally, it is a 3 car unit, I doubt you will notice the difference. Obviously some people will, but for most of us the cheaper solution would probably do. 

[NXEA!]

1 hour ago, E100 said:

I guess the problem that this solution is trying to overcome (assuming that through wiring isn't impossible for some reason) is that a single decoder can't drive speakers in different locations without them all being driven identically i.e. one set of speaker outputs on the chip.

 

The argument goes that the sound of the diesel needs to come from the diesel pack but that's a long way from the ends where the horns are therefore for it to be correct you need to have the speakers driven independently.

 

As I say one way around this is for the two ends to at least be through wired so only two decoders are needed for the complete setup.

 

I personally do feel that driving multiple independent speakers is the next step for DCC decoders to make though from a personal perspective I'm very hard pushed to notice a speaker from the tender and not the chimney / one end of a unit or another at any reasonable distance the point where I'd suggest one good decoder with one very good speaker would serve me just fine in all but the longest units.

 

Living in Norwich I travel on the real things regularly and can completely understand why Hornby have gone for three chips - depending on what part of the train you’re standing next to, it sounds completely different and you wouldn’t realistically be able to replicate that under one decoder/speaker setting. I think any third-party/aftermarket provider doing it in all in one chip would only be a retrograde step, and Hornby appear to be upping the spec/set up to be as realistic as possible which is a good move IMO. 

Being a bi-mode it’s a diesel electric in diesel mode rather than straight DMU, and the traction motor noises that come from the front and rear bogies when moving are distinctive and sound pure EMU, whereas you have the thrash of the diesel power-pack in the middle with no traction motor/electrical noises that wouldn’t sound right if put in one of the end vehicles and vice-versa. The beauty of the TXS chips are that they’re around £50 a pop, three at circa £150 isn’t too much more than the competition’s premium for sound-fitted models. 

[ruggedpeak]

14 minutes ago, NXEA! said:

Living in Norwich I travel on the real things regularly and can completely understand why Hornby have gone for three chips - depending on what part of the train you’re standing next to, it sounds completely different and you wouldn’t realistically be able to replicate that under one decoder/speaker setting. I think any third-party/aftermarket provider doing it in all in one chip would only be a retrograde step, and Hornby appear to be upping the spec/set up to be as realistic as possible which is a good move IMO. 

Being a bi-mode it’s a diesel electric in diesel mode rather than straight DMU, and the traction motor noises that come from the front and rear bogies when moving are distinctive and sound pure EMU, whereas you have the thrash of the diesel power-pack in the middle with no traction motor/electrical noises that wouldn’t sound right if put in one of the end vehicles and vice-versa. The beauty of the TXS chips are that they’re around £50 a pop, three at circa £150 isn’t too much more than the competition’s premium for sound-fitted models. 

Assuming it all works it is absolutely making the most of sound in a way that is more complex than a single loco. Given people have been getting excited over whether the drive train of the new class 60 models is "accurate" or not (driven v floating centre axle), this is far more relevant to replicating as as far as possible the prototype thing for maximum realism. And the FLIRTs are long enough that the location of the sound should be noticeable. 

 

It also demonstrates yet again that Hornby are still in the game and innovating. If it all works (and doesn't melt a la APT etc) then the FLIRT could easily be 'model of the year' or better.

[NXEA!]

7 minutes ago, ruggedpeak said:

Assuming it all works it is absolutely making the most of sound in a way that is more complex than a single loco. Given people have been getting excited over whether the drive train of the new class 60 models is "accurate" or not (driven v floating centre axle), this is far more relevant to replicating as as far as possible the prototype thing for maximum realism. And the FLIRTs are long enough that the location of the sound should be noticeable. 

 

It also demonstrates yet again that Hornby are still in the game and innovating. If it all works (and doesn't melt a la APT etc) then the FLIRT could easily be 'model of the year' or better.

Agree with your last statement in particular, people love to knock Hornby but this looks likely to be the best multiple unit done in OO gauge to date. 

[locoholic]

Do the doors open on these models? If not, what is the point of having multiple decoders when every time the model stops at a station the doors never open?! Just seems like adding complexity and cost for the sake of it. 

Edited October 7 by locoholic

[adb968008]

59 minutes ago, NXEA! said:

depending on what part of the train you’re standing next to, it sounds completely different and you wouldn’t realistically be able to replicate that under one decoder/speaker setting. 

 

Three speakers, each separately activated by a different F numbers accordingly ?.. same way as Fans / lights are today on other models ?

Edited October 7 by adb968008

[GrumpyPenguin]

3 hours ago, PeterStiles said:

But the point is a, surely, to have the correct noises coming from the correct points, so the ends make Electricy noises and the middles makes Dieselly noises.

This is just the same as the O gauge loco announced with two decoders for the same thing - to get the noises coming from the correct places, just like how some people dislike having the Speaker in the Tender of a steam loco...

 

And Hornby's point is that with the TTX decoders you don't have to spend over £300 on your three decoders...

Indeed, I had a very nice Sound Fitted Trix BR05 - a model just over 300mm long. Motor in the locomotive and speaker in the tender. As soon as my ears became attuned to the fact that the chuffs were coming from the wrong end I had to turn the sound off. I sold it soon afterwards.

 

As we strive for more & more realism then we will soon be requiring 2, 3, 4 and maybe more audio channels to get the sounds eminating from the right places of the locomotive/train.

 

In the case of MU's it will be either a new type of decoder (maybe even separate from the motor decoder) with more audio &/or accesory outputs & use conductive couplings or stick with decoders at each end & possibly one in the centre.