Hardwired Zimo sound in Accurascale Manor

[Harlequin]

The factory fitted sound in the Manor is underwhelming, IMHO. It certainly doesn't compare well to the sounds of my other home-fitted locos.

 

The model itself is lovely but I was expecting much better from Accurascale in the sound department, based on their reputation for big Diesel sounds and their own brand "Accurathrash" speakers.

 

So I gave one of my Manors the same treatment as I have previously given other locos from other makers. Here's the recipe:

 

The tender was separated from the loco and is shown here with the lid off and the kit I proposed to install:

The decoder is an MS450 from Youchoos. In the end I couldn't fit the supercap and had to fall back to some tantalum capacitors with much less stay-alive capacity but this loco really doesn't need much stay-alive on decent track.

 

I removed the original circuit board completely and the original speaker (from underneath). I cut one wire at a time and joined each one to the new decoder to ensure I didn't screw up the connections:

The small black shape in the background is the original speaker - an 11*15mm sugarcube in a very small enclosure. The new speaker on the wooden block is a Zimo DUMBO LS40X20X09-1W. It's wired in parallel with the sugarcube speaker that remains in the smokebox of the loco. So that gives 4 ohms combined impedance and that's partly why the MS450 decoder was chosen - it can drive 4 ohms safely.

 

A 1k resistor was connected in the circuit from common positive, through the firebox LED(s) and back to Aux1 on the decoder so that the Youchoos sound project can drive the firebox in sync with coal shovelling.

 

I tested that my wiring worked and the decoder made sounds without exploding (it has happened before) then the soldered joints were all protected by shrink tube and packed into the tender space.

 

Here's the kit packaged more neatly, the wiring tucked away and the Supercap replaced by tantalum capacitors wrapped in Kapton tape:

 

Next the scary and dangerous part - cutting a hole in the tender. Look away now if scenes of major surgery upset you:

 

When the hole had been cleaned up and adjusted to fit the speaker I refitted the tender body. It took a bit of fiddling to get all the wires out of the way but eventually the two halves came back together neatly. Then I formed up some stainless steel insect mesh as the basic speaker grille to allow sound to pass directly out:

 

Coal was glued on to the mesh using copydex, making sure there were plenty of gaps to allow the sound through. I used fine pieces around the edges and big pieces in the centre:

 

Big dollops of copydex were run around the edges of the coal space and then the grill was dropped in. The copydex will hold the speaker grille / coal load in place and hopefully prevent it from vibrating against the tender body. More fine grade coal was dropped on the glue to hide it and to complete the load from edge to edge.

 

Finally all back together and connected to the loco, Anthony Manor now both looks great and sounds great!

 

I will post a video later.

 

Edited August 20, 2023 by Harlequin

[Izzy]

Those dumbo speakers really are good but I think it’s the actual design of the 3D printed enclosure that makes the difference. Are the tantalum’s 16v or 25v? I’ve recently started using the latter and seem to find they are better per identical capacitance. It might just be subjective on my part though. 
 

Bob

[Harlequin]

3 hours ago, Izzy said:

Those dumbo speakers really are good but I think it’s the actual design of the 3D printed enclosure that makes the difference. Are the tantalum’s 16v or 25v? I’ve recently started using the latter and seem to find they are better per identical capacitance. It might just be subjective on my part though. 
 

Bob

Yes, agreed about the enclosure. I prefer these Zimo ones to the near-equivalents made by YouChoos. There does seem to be something slightly better about them.

 

The tantalums are 16v and thanks for the tip about 25v versions. I will try them sometime.

 

BTW: The two electrolytic(?) caps on Accurascale's motherboard are marked "KATE 2.7V1.0F"...

 

Edited August 20, 2023 by Harlequin

[zr2498]

4 hours ago, Harlequin said:

 

 

 

Great job done on the sound upgrade. I am looking forward to the sound video. I have recently put at Railex twin 40X20X10 in a new Hornby 9F tender. As there was no speaker in the firebox the 4ohm twin was fine.

I did something similar with both Hornby A2/2 and A2/3. A huge improvement. I did a big cut out of the tender coal floor pan, and made a false floor for a real coal load. That was solid though, rather than a mesh. I am relying on sound reflecting and passing through gaps / holes in the base of the tender chassis. That seems to work OK. So I guess is a mesh necessary if there are enough gaps underneath?

What I am finding with the latest models is that the prefitted PC boards / plugs and the 21 pin decoders take up more room, making the fitting of bigger speakers more difficult.

Edited August 20, 2023 by zr2498
Reply in wrong position

[Harlequin]

11 hours ago, zr2498 said:

Great job done on the sound upgrade. I am looking forward to the sound video. I have recently put at Railex twin 40X20X10 in a new Hornby 9F tender. As there was no speaker in the firebox the 4ohm twin was fine.

I did something similar with both Hornby A2/2 and A2/3. A huge improvement. I did a big cut out of the tender coal floor pan, and made a false floor for a real coal load. That was solid though, rather than a mesh. I am relying on sound reflecting and passing through gaps / holes in the base of the tender chassis. That seems to work OK. So I guess is a mesh necessary if there are enough gaps underneath?

What I am finding with the latest models is that the prefitted PC boards / plugs and the 21 pin decoders take up more room, making the fitting of bigger speakers more difficult.

I don't like my sound to bounce around inside a thin walled plastic box or come out through uncontrolled openings. Hi-Fi manufacturers (mostly) don't make speakers that way... 😉

 

My theory is that it's best to give the sound a clear path out and as direct to your ears as possible.

 

Edited August 21, 2023 by Harlequin

[Harlequin]

Here's a video. Sorry it's a bit rubbish...

 

[Nigelcliffe]

On 20/08/2023 at 16:05, Harlequin said:

.......

 

The decoder is an MS450 from Youchoos. In the end I couldn't fit the supercap and had to fall back to some tantalum capacitors with much less stay-alive capacity but this loco really doesn't need much stay-alive on decent track.

 

 

Zimo STACCO components may offer a better option.   Very compact items, fit either two or three capacitors (two seems adequate for most locos).   Or, with the MS450, could fit seven of the small capacitors used with the STACCO without the STACCO board.   

[JST]

Excellent job Phil! do you know what the impedance of the original tender speaker is? I am not sure about going the whole hog with this improvement but I am wondering if a better speaker can be shoehorned in with the original wiring in tact.

 

According to ESU, the V5 delivers 3Watts into 4-32 ohms so I am guessing the smokebox speaker is 8 ohms as well as the tender speaker.

Edited August 28, 2023 by JST

[Harlequin]

1 hour ago, JST said:

Excellent job Phil! do you know what the impedance of the original tender speaker is? I am not sure about going the whole hog with this improvement but I am wondering if a better speaker can be shoehorned in with the original wiring in tact.

Thanks! (Shame that I can never reproduce the sound that I hear in the videos. I'm seriously thinking about sending my models to other people so they can hear them for themselves...)

 

It should be possible to simply replace the small speaker in the tender with a bigger one but the existing circuit board, and the decoder plugged into it, take up a lot of space so the size of the new speaker would then be compromised. Having said that, anything bigger than the supplied speaker would be better!

 

The small fitted speaker is 8ohm. If you leave the factory wiring intact and replace the fitted speaker in the tender then the new speaker will be in parallel with the similar 8ohm speaker in the smokebox. So you have to be sure that your decoder is capable of driving 4ohms or else it might burn out.

 

Good luck!

 

Edited August 28, 2023 by Harlequin

[JST]

Thanks Phil. I have checked the spec and ESU claim that the V5 will handle 4 ohms so I will take them at their word. At the very worst I will have to replace it with a Zimo decoder. I will take the tender apart and see what is possible.

[JST]

Well, I took mine apart and you are quite right of course in as much as there is little or no room for a bigger speaker in the tender if keeping the standard circuit board. However, I took the body off the engine and have discovered there is more room there. I reckon I can get a Youchoos double sugar cube in there (24x15x8) which is much bigger than what is there now. This is a 4 ohm speaker so I would have to disable the tender speaker which is no great loss or I could put an 8 ohm version in and leave the tender speaker. I think I will order both and experiment.

[captnimo]

This is route I am going with the MS450 but using a double speaker Boombox (40x20x10mm 4ohm 2W) and not using the engine one. 

Edited August 29, 2023 by captnimo

[Silver Sidelines]

Hello Phil, I hope you don't mind me asking but have you had time to look at the slow running of your model without the Accurascale circuit board?  Mine has been 'run in' and I am using a Gaugemaster DS.  It does seem to jump into life before setting off.  Some people have suggested the issue relates to the use of a three pole motor - I have lots of other smooth running models with three pole motors.  I think Accurascale have said that the model was designed for running on digital.  I wondered it the issue relates to the settings on the PCB.  I wonder if you have any thoughts?

 

May just be that mine needs more running in!

 

https://youtu.be/nDGIzkXMnSg?si=jKadjt3AwAGSmMIq

 

Edited September 23, 2023 by Silver Sidelines
Video link added

[Harlequin]

11 hours ago, Silver Sidelines said:

Hello Phil, I hope you don't mind me asking but have you had time to look at the slow running of your model without the Accurascale circuit board?  Mine has been 'run in' and I am using a Gaugemaster DS.  It does seem to jump into life before setting off.  Some people have suggested the issue relates to the use of a three pole motor - I have lots of other smooth running models with three pole motors.  I think Accurascale have said that the model was designed for running on digital.  I wondered it the issue relates to the settings on the PCB.  I wonder if you have any thoughts?

 

May just be that mine needs more running in!

 

Hi,

 

I don't think the Accurascale circuit board plays a part in DC performance. I continuity tested the blanking plug today and it makes direct connections between the rails and the motor. I think the circuit board just performs ancillary functions of charging the stay-alive caps, running the firebox flicker and routing the sound to the speakers.

 

Here's a rough video to compare with yours.

 

Note that  I have acceleration and deceleration set up in the decoder so to start running I open the throttle to 20-ish and the decoder gradually builds up the speed. I don't think there's a jump...?

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Harlequin

[Silver Sidelines]

10 hours ago, Harlequin said:

 

I don't think the Accurascale circuit board plays a part in DC performance. I continuity tested the blanking plug today and it makes direct connections between the rails and the motor. I think the circuit board just performs ancillary functions of charging the stay-alive caps, running the firebox flicker and routing the sound to the speakers.

 

 

Thanks Phil, you make your Manor sound very good and it certainly runs very smoothly.

 

I have added a link to my video in my original post.  There is a noticeable difference between the two models.  I might have thought that using the Gaugemaster DS and releasing the brakes was much the same as opening the throttle in digital - seemingly not.

 

I have two Accurascale Manors and the other model is now starting very smoothly.  I would have said that they have both been equally used.

 

Thanks again  Ray