WCRC - the ongoing battle with ORR.

[The Stationmaster]

1 minute ago, SZ said:

Well I've still not seen it explored so I'll leave you all to it.

As you can't even be bothered to read posts all I can say is - bye bye.

[AY Mod]

7 minutes ago, SZ said:

Well I've still not seen it explored so I'll leave you all to it.

 

You could do it instead of expecting someone else to do so.

[caradoc]

13 hours ago, SZ said:

Why not run the train at 25mph and dispense with the locking requirement.

 

I suspect that if such a seemingly simple means of reducing safety requirements really existed, WCR would have already gone for it. 

 

[Boris]

52 minutes ago, SZ said:

Well I've still not seen it explored beyond 'can't do' so I'll leave you all to it.

 

 

How about the amount of local opposition that focusing the whole operation on tourism would cause?  There are any amount of areas that have focused on tourism for 50 years (Whitby area is a great example) and there are massive problems in the area with accessing services and with the explosion of 2nd homes and holiday cottages forcing younger families away from the area and suddenly there are fewer staff for jobs and more elderly people who have retired to the area who put pressure on local services, all helped by fewer people working in the area and paying taxes.

 

A heritage operation would not receive a subsidy therefore would have to run at a profit like any other business and that would mean cutting the services that are no longer profitable which realistically is going to mean fewer to no services  October to March and having to make this profitable you're also going to charge a lot more for tickets pricing a lot of local families out.  For example the NYMR no longer does one station singles meaning locals who would often take the train one stop and walk back via the pub are priced out.  Average wages in the Scottish Highlands are quite low with it being tourist/agronomy oriented so a lack of subsidy means again pricing locals off the trains destroying a local transport link (Source:ONS regarding wages).  Given the Scottish Government wanting to invest in local transport for residents (see also Waverley restoration) it is unlikely to be politically acceptable.

 

I'm interested to see what positive arguments you can produce that aren't just "I like steam trains"

 

 

 

 

[Reorte]

7 minutes ago, Boris said:

How about the amount of local opposition that focusing the whole operation on tourism would cause?  There are any amount of areas that have focused on tourism for 50 years (Whitby area is a great example) and there are massive problems in the area with accessing services and with the explosion of 2nd homes and holiday cottages forcing younger families away from the area and suddenly there are fewer staff for jobs and more elderly people who have retired to the area who put pressure on local services, all helped by fewer people working in the area and paying taxes.

 

To be fair that's where it all gets very tricky indeed, since tourism is such a major part of the local economy. It can cause numerous problems yet those places are dependent on it. Remove the tourism and the houses might be cheaper but there'll be few jobs anyway, it's a Catch-22 situation.

[Boris]

18 minutes ago, Reorte said:

 

To be fair that's where it all gets very tricky indeed, since tourism is such a major part of the local economy. It can cause numerous problems yet those places are dependent on it. Remove the tourism and the houses might be cheaper but there'll be few jobs anyway, it's a Catch-22 situation.

Absolutely, it's about keeping a balance.  

[Reorte]

10 minutes ago, Boris said:

Absolutely, it's about keeping a balance.  

Which is also necessary to avoid falling out of a door.

 

Sorry, apologies for that one,  I couldn't resist. At least I'm a little ashamed of it :D

[Wheatley]

4 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

One obvious example with the Jacobite is limited visibility running tender first at speed over such a distance.

 

With RETB there is no (or very limited) requirement to watch for signals, and the railway runs on a reserved right of way so being able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear is not a requirement. Apart from white light type crossings (are there any ?) the lack of visibility is not a problem. 

 

Not necessarily specific to the Jacobite but you can't see anything in the dark, even the right way round. The high intensity headlight is there to be seen, not to see by, other than to pick out reflectorized distants and speed restrictions. And you should know where they are anyway (speed restriction signage largely being a new-fangled deisel era thing).  

[Reorte]

16 minutes ago, Wheatley said:

 

With RETB there is no (or very limited) requirement to watch for signals, and the railway runs on a reserved right of way so being able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear is not a requirement. Apart from white light type crossings (are there any ?) the lack of visibility is not a problem. 

 

Not necessarily specific to the Jacobite but you can't see anything in the dark, even the right way round. The high intensity headlight is there to be seen, not to see by, other than to pick out reflectorized distants and speed restrictions. And you should know where they are anyway (speed restriction signage largely being a new-fangled deisel era thing).  

 

You're definitely going to need to see some sort of indicator (I've no idea what it is) to make sure you don't fall off the swing bridge over the Caledonian Canal.

[The Stationmaster]

22 hours ago, Wheatley said:

 

With RETB there is no (or very limited) requirement to watch for signals, and the railway runs on a reserved right of way so being able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear is not a requirement. Apart from white light type crossings (are there any ?) the lack of visibility is not a problem. 

 

Not necessarily specific to the Jacobite but you can't see anything in the dark, even the right way round. The high intensity headlight is there to be seen, not to see by, other than to pick out reflectorized distants and speed restrictions. And you should know where they are anyway (speed restriction signage largely being a new-fangled deisel era thing).  

Morar crossing is an AOCL+B so has white lights (unless it has been further altered.  Annat East & West level crossings both appear to have full barriers so some other system will presumably be in place there.

 

The WHE is the darkest place I have ever seen from a driving cab at night.   It's one of those stretches of railway where more than anything else at night you feel and hear where you are rather than seeing where you are.  In the past even distant signals with poorly trimmed or slightly mis- aligned lamps could readily be picked out at night because they were the only artifical light you could see - everything else was blackness illuminated only by moonlight.

Edited July 28, 2023 by The Stationmaster
typo

[APOLLO]

I don't know what's the fuss about Mk1's & Steam locos, they were getting rusty around the windows and lower bodywork requiring plating etc back in 1960 (Article in 1983 Railway World annual). Time to either update them or get them off the main line. OK though (in my mind) for 25mph on preserved lines.

 

MK 2's are / were the answer, and OK behind steam. Whitley Crossing Wigan 1967.

 

 

Brit15

 

 

[TheSignalEngineer]

4 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

The WHE is the darkesy t place I have ever seen from a driving cab at night.  

Unfortunately never done that but an isolation experience of mine was camping on the Old Military Road between Bridge of Orchy and Glencoe during a blizzard in early April many years ago. We were three miles away across difficult terrain from the nearest road and about four miles walk from the nearest inhabited building. Just a small torch and a tea light lantern to put up the tent and cook but it's surprising how you get used to it when it's so dark.

As for feeling and hearing where you are, one night I fell asleep before the train left Glasgow and woke up as we went over the junctions at Soho, just in time to get off at New Street.

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

 

As for feeling and hearing where you are, one night I fell asleep before the train left Glasgow and woke up as we went over the junctions at Soho, just in time to get off at New Street.

On the sleeper, you spill your drinks at Watford, feel Crewe, fear Preston, hear Shap and smell Glasgow.

[LNER4479]

9 hours ago, Reorte said:

Average speed and top speed are rather different things. Run the trains at a top speed of 25 mph and the journey will be rather longer than 1.5 hours.

FWIW, Jacobite stops at Glenfinnan outwards for 20 mins to allow pax to detrain and visit museum, signalbox etc. Total journey time for morning train is 1hr 50mins - it passes morning ScR train from Mallaig at Glenfinnan.

[pete_mcfarlane]

8 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

The WHE is the darkesy t place I have ever seen from a driving cab at night.   

In one of Samuel Smiles books on now obscure scientists and engineers there's a section on a member of station staff on a Scottish rural line, who because a noted amateur astronomer for that exact reason, and conversed by letter with various lords and dukes who were also amateur astronomers. 

[TheSignalEngineer]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

On the sleeper, you spill your drinks at Watford, feel Crewe, fear Preston, hear Shap and smell Glasgow.

On the Down sleeper I certainly remember feeling the curve at Penrith one night. Much better in the days when they had seated stock. When the Birmingham ones had a Mk1 BFK it was usually only occupied by BR staff. Much more comfortable than a sleeper berth.

 

[Joseph_Pestell]

21 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

 

 

Surely we aren't taking the idea seriously?   Nobody in their right mind would do that!

 

But they might not be in their right mind, otherwise known as DaFT.

[6990WitherslackHall]

21 hours ago, Reorte said:

Sorry, apologies for that one,  I couldn't resist. At least I'm a little ashamed of it :D

No harm done. I would've said that as well 

[john new]

23 hours ago, Reorte said:

 

23 hours ago, Reorte said:

 

To be fair that's where it all gets very tricky indeed, since tourism is such a major part of the local economy. It can cause numerous problems yet those places are dependent on it. Remove the tourism and the houses might be cheaper but there'll be few jobs anyway, it's a Catch-22 situation.

Exactly the same issue here in Dorset.  Tourism creates jobs, albeit many are low paid, but also means houses become B&Bs/ABNBs so less available to buy and what there is becomes too expensive for people to buy. Three new ABNBs this year alone within 100 yds of my house. The area can't recruit for even well paid jobs like Doctors due to housing costs/shortages. Seaside town poverty etc., was subject to a recent government report.

[SZ]

On 27/07/2023 at 11:53, SZ said:

Well I've still not seen it explored beyond 'can't do' so I'll leave you all to it.

 

 

Plenty of scope to retard the outgoing services but the unit swap in the afternoon (arrowed) restricts the timings of the return services by holding them to a crossing at Arisaig.

[The Stationmaster]

41 minutes ago, SZ said:

 

 

Plenty of scope to retard the outgoing services but the unit swap in the afternoon (arrowed) restricts the timings of the return services by holding them to a crossing at Arisaig.

So what time does your retimed 10.15 from Fort William arrive at Mallaig for example with the maximum speed reduced to 25 mph?

[AY Mod]

1 hour ago, SZ said:

 

 

Plenty of scope to retard the outgoing services but the unit swap in the afternoon (arrowed) restricts the timings of the return services by holding them to a crossing at Arisaig.

 

No account taken for dwell times at stops creating passing places and the subsequent impacts of slower and longer services. Too simplistic but you tried.

[APOLLO]

1 hour ago, SZ said:

 

 

 

I thought the Romans got no further north than Hadrian's Wall !!

 

Brit15

[adb968008]

Looks like theres time for a dining train in there circa 6pm?

 

need it even go all the way, or just pause on the viaduct for a while ?

Edited July 29, 2023 by adb968008

[The Stationmaster]

8 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Looks like theres time for a dining train in there circa 6pm?

 

need it even go all the way, or just pause on the viaduct for a while ?

For a while or for a glass of wine I wonder (bubbly wine of course)?