Anyone Else Put Off Small Suppliers Who Don't Sell Online?

[John Isherwood]

1 minute ago, Fishoutofwater said:

we are no longer IN the EEC, So at worst we are isolated OUTSIDE the EEC. However you can still buy stuff from us if traders are still willing to supply outside the UK. 

 

The previous poster, to whom I was replying, is in Spain - which, when I last checked, is IN the EEC.

 

CJI.

[Fishoutofwater]

10 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

12 hours ago, Fishoutofwater said:

Perhaps because existing customers are likely to cease ordering (we all will eventually).

Though that might well be preceded by the supplier wanting to retire anyway....

 

Or indeed cease trading for other reasons. Consumers need providers as much as providers need consumers.

[Michael Hodgson]

9 hours ago, Dave John said:

Why? Well this might sound utterly pretentious twaddle, but I am a modeller of Edwardian railways. I consider writing a letter and enclosing a cheque to be in keeping with my modelling style, I can enjoy doing so as part of my overall modelmaking experience.

 

I hope you remember to put the 2d stamp on the cheque, but you certainly won't get away with a 2d stamp on the envelope.

Bring back Rowland Hill and the penny post!

[Neal Ball]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

.... and it was your decision, presumably being aware of the potential supply problem - to isolate yourself in the EEC.

 

CJI.

 

We moved and became legal here before the full ramifications of Brexit were decided on.

 

It just means things take more planning to try and mitigate the effects of the ill thought out Brexit idea!

 

Post for instance - can now take 6 weeks to arrive, then you might get stung for duty. 

[DavidH]

2 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

The previous poster, to whom I was replying, is in Spain - which, when I last checked, is IN the EEC.

 

CJI.

 

Last checked in 1993, presumably? 😉

[Ravenser]

On 21/03/2023 at 13:52, Wheatley said:

 

 

A lot of 'proper' traders' websites are a pain in the neck unless you know exactly what you're looking for, and not just model railways; finding anything on Farnells or RS Components sites from the literally thousands of variations on a DIN plug or SPST switch does my head in. Flicking through the Mainly Trains catalogue and ticking things off to write them in the order form was far more pleasant.  

 

 

 

Dare I mention Comet here? The idea that everything ultimately merged onto BR so all companies coaches are BR coaches makes life a pain when you just want to check Mk1s....

 

The other problem no-one has mentioned is when a trader has a large back-catalogue of small items. Putting them all onto a website as a product list/ecommerce store becomes impractical . Squires are the extreme example here

 

Cheques are arguably a safer method of payment than cards online. You cannot have your details hacked and used to make fraudulent payments. I've suffered several times through card frauds of varying types, and although the money was reimbursed by the bank it still means someone got away with it. I've never been subject to that kind of loss through cheques.

 

You can in theory stop a cheque and no-one gets paid. And no pasyment method guards against the trader who takes the money but fails to supply - Coopercraft being the classic example

 

Yes an online site is easier to uyse, but I'm old enough not to have much time for the attitude displayed by some that "unless it's online I won't do business with you". 

 

Having to meet in a distant carpark is absurd though... (It would have been even more absurd in 1975)

Edited March 23, 2023 by Ravenser

[Andy Hayter]

3 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

 

 

.... and it was your decision, presumably being aware of the potential supply problem - to isolate yourself in the EEC.

 

CJI.

 

Er, actually no.  Not in any way.

 

Apart from arriving in continental Europe 20 years before the Brexit vote having been encouraged by the then government (I was going to use forced rather than encouraged), I took a decision to plan a long term future based within an open association of nations 13 years before the Brexit vote.  I returned to modelling UK prototypes 3 years before the Brexit vote.

 

I can absolutely assure you that at no time when those decisions were made was the possibility of supply problems from the UK anywhere on the decision making horizon.

 

AS to "isolate ... in the EEC (sic)", this sounds very much like the supposed headline of "Fog in the Channel the continent cut off"

[Colin_McLeod]

4 hours ago, cctransuk said:

... and it was your decision, presumably being aware of the potential supply problem - to isolate yourself in the EEC.

 

News Alert:  EEC (sic) isolated from the UK.     

 

And there was me thinking it was the other way round. 😂

 

 

[C126]

4 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

14 hours ago, Dave John said:

Why? Well this might sound utterly pretentious twaddle, but I am a modeller of Edwardian railways. I consider writing a letter and enclosing a cheque to be in keeping with my modelling style, I can enjoy doing so as part of my overall modelmaking experience.

 

I hope you remember to put the 2d stamp on the cheque, but you certainly won't get away with a 2d stamp on the envelope.

Bring back Rowland Hill and the penny post!

 

I can recommend an excellent stationery engraver - https://piccolopress.co.uk/ - and hope you seal your letters with wax and have a personal seal as well...  😀

[Dunsignalling]

36 minutes ago, Colin_McLeod said:

 

News Alert:  EEC (sic) isolated from the UK.     

 

And there was me thinking it was the other way round. 😂

 

 

The practical effects of the "isolation" clearly cut both ways, irrespective of one's take on the principle, or this discussion wouldn't be taking the direction it is.

 

TBH, whilst I didn't support Brexit, I've always considered that General De Gaulle was spot on over the UK joining in the first place. I can't see the EU allowing us back in without much closer alignment, including adoption of the Euro. Even if it were to happen, all those exemptions, rebates, etc. previously enjoyed by the UK are history.

 

What's done is done and is unlikely to be undone for at least a generation, if ever. It's therefore in the interests of both sides to develop a pragmatic and convenient trading relationship rather than just allowing the wounds that arose through separation to fester.

 

Unfortunately, neither side currently seems much inclined in that direction.

 

Indeed, I suspect the political classes across the EU are beginning to rather enjoy the absence of the awkward squad. I would be if I were in their position....

 

John

Edited March 23, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[John Isherwood]

2 hours ago, DavidH said:

 

Last checked in 1993, presumably? 😉

 

I don't follow your point, sorry!

 

Is Spain within the EEC (or whatever acronym now applies) or not?

 

CJI.

[Colin_McLeod]

2 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

I don't follow your point, sorry!

 

Is Spain within the EEC (or whatever acronym now applies) or not?

 

CJI.

 

The EEC became the  EU 1993.

[John Isherwood]

2 hours ago, Ravenser said:

 

Yes an online site is easier to uyse, but I'm old enough not to have much time for the attitude displayed by some that "unless it's online I won't do business with you".

 

Their loss - small traders' products are rarely duplicated by others.

 

CJI.

[andyman7]

On 21/03/2023 at 11:39, Peter Eaton said:

I find a lot of interesting modelling items can be found on the dreaded Ebay as to 3D printed items, card kits etc enterprising individuals using this medium for products on line & easy payment option & feedback trail.

Just needs a bit then for our support ?

thanks, Peter

 

On 21/03/2023 at 13:52, Wheatley said:

What John just said. If I need an XYZ and only one trader makes it but needs a cheque, then I'll write him a cheque and put it in the post. It's not rocket science. I've only ever been burned once and that was when the only way to get anything from a retailer miles away was to write a cheque and put it in the post ("The Railway King" of Sunderland, still owes me a kit for a Mk1 BG from 1982).

 

People need to stop trying to apply box shifter and model shop economics / business 'rules' to cottage manufacturers; a lot of the time they're selling stuff because they needed one, they have the means of production and they either feel magnanimous towards their fellow modellers or they're off-setting the minimum order for a batch of etches (for example) by selling off the surplus ones. They really are doing you a favour, however much that rankles. 

 

A lot of 'proper' traders' websites are a pain in the neck unless you know exactly what you're looking for, and not just model railways; finding anything on Farnells or RS Components sites from the literally thousands of variations on a DIN plug or SPST switch does my head in. Flicking through the Mainly Trains catalogue and ticking things off to write them in the order form was far more pleasant.  

 

 

 

Ebay is a very accessible halfway house to enable a micro business to access a huge customer base if they don't want or need to run a website. Sometimes even just to sell a few key parts on, it doesn't have to be their whole catalogue.

 

On 21/03/2023 at 15:15, DaveF said:

As some of you know I have a large collection of  my own photos which I am prepared to sell, if someone sees one on flickr or RMWeb they want they can ask me for a copy, as can publishers.  However I am not going to set up a website and payment system as I do not want it to be a real business, though I do pay tax on income from anything I sell. 

 

 

Remembering of course that selling your own possessions or items from your own collection is not taxable unless the goods fall within Capital Gains criteria (which does not include model railways or railway ephemera!); and that there are blanket micro business exemptions for example ANY trading where turnover is under £1000 is exempt for basic rate taxpayers. 

 

19 hours ago, Colin_McLeod said:

Fees may be on the high side, but the exposure to potential customers is much greater than otherwise.

 

Many businesses will discount if you buy direct, so, for example, there is absolutely no problem with selling at a price that covers the fees on ebay and including a note with the purchase advising that if they want they can save money by ordering by mail directly

 

59 minutes ago, Colin_McLeod said:

 

News Alert:  EEC (sic) isolated from the UK.     

 

And there was me thinking it was the other way round. 😂

 

 

Fog in Channel; Continent cut off?

[DavidH]

43 minutes ago, Colin_McLeod said:

 

The EEC became the  EU 1993.

 

Erm ... 😁

Edited March 23, 2023 by DavidH

[CWJ]

Well my question has certainly sparked a good conversation; thanks for all the contributions so far. Particularly interesting to hear about the export angle.

 

Just a polite request: let's leave the Brexit banter there, shall we, and stick to toy trains please? 

 

Cheers,

 

Will

 

(It'll now go eerily quiet. British folk have spent the last 7 years getting used to debating nothing but Brexit 🙂)

[Dava]

Light Railway Stores provides an ‘online marketplace’ and order fulfilment service for 18 small producers who don’t need to run their own online shops. It works well.

 

https://www.lightrailwaystores.co.uk/

 

Dava

[djparkins]

40 minutes ago, CWJ said:

Well my question has certainly sparked a good conversation; thanks for all the contributions so far. Particularly interesting to hear about the export angle.

 

Just a polite request: let's leave the Brexit banter there, shall we, and stick to toy trains please? 

 

Cheers,

 

Will

 

(It'll now go eerily quiet. British folk have spent the last 7 years getting used to debating nothing but Brexit 🙂)

 

Well even though I was on the losing side, we have left and so that is that - but regarding export we have found no problems. We export most weekdays and what were EU sales are now simply the same as the US, Canadian and any other 'rest of world' sales. They are VAT deducted and post charged as per normal. Customs paperwork for the kind of orders we process are the work of moments if you are set up for it. It really is not very difficult, and that is just as well, as with our military ranges, as well as the railway ones, around 70% of our sales are to overseas customers.

 

David Parkins

MMP/ABS 7mm etc.

[CWJ]

8 hours ago, Dava said:

Light Railway Stores provides an ‘online marketplace’ and order fulfilment service for 18 small producers who don’t need to run their own online shops.

 

I've used it recently, coincidentally. Their service was excellent when dealing with a minor mistake in my order, although I'm not certain whether I was dealing with Light Railway Stores or the manufacturer. So amalgamating small suppliers into one website doesn't necessarily mean losing the human touch.

[Mark Forrest]

22 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

The previous poster, to whom I was replying, is in Spain - which, when I last checked, is IN the EEC.

 

CJI.

Except it isn't, since the EEC hasn't existed since the '90s and it's successor, the EC, was abolished in 2009 (Treaty of Lisbon).

[Colin_McLeod]

18 hours ago, Colin_McLeod said:

 

The EEC became the  EU 1993.

 

18 hours ago, DavidH said:

 

Erm ... 😁

 

I know it's more complicated than that, but I was avoiding thread drift from the topic of model railway suppliers without an on line presence.

[009 micro modeller]

On 23/03/2023 at 09:39, Michael Hodgson said:

I hope you remember to put the 2d stamp on the cheque, but you certainly won't get away with a 2d stamp on the envelope.

Bring back Rowland Hill and the penny post!

In a similar vein, should the small number of people modelling pre-1840 railways cross-write their letters on a single piece of paper?   Although of course for the full historic experience the recipient of the letter would then have to pay the postage costs, which I suspect a lot of smaller model railway suppliers may not be very happy with…

 

For the much larger number of people modelling railways at any point between 1927 and 2003, I can potentially arrange for their letter to be transported on Mail Rail (the London Post Office Railway for earlier periods), although sadly not over the full route.

 

When he wasn’t working for the Post Office, at one stage in his career Rowland Hill was a director of the London & Brighton Railway, so there is a less tenuous pre-grouping railway link.

[009 micro modeller]

10 hours ago, CWJ said:

 

I've used it recently, coincidentally. Their service was excellent when dealing with a minor mistake in my order, although I'm not certain whether I was dealing with Light Railway Stores or the manufacturer. So amalgamating small suppliers into one website doesn't necessarily mean losing the human touch.

I didn’t realise that about Light Railway Stores, I thought it was more like Dundas (which as far as I know is a stockist for other manufacturers as well as the stuff they produce themselves). Sometimes I find Dundas to be slightly cheaper than Light Railway Stores but it may depend on the particular product involved.

[Compound2632]

On 21/03/2023 at 10:24, Hal Nail said:

I knew someone who desperately wanted to run a surf shop. They found a place in random bit of South London and ran it without a website. It didn't do very well.

 

I've lived next door to two scuba-diving equipment shops - in the 19ème arrondissement of Paris (Les hommes grenouilles) and in Earley (I can't recall what it was called but it had a large frog in scuba diving kit in the window); both in the pre-internet era. I presume they thrived on reputation, word-of-mouth, and advertising in the specialist magazines. Evidently your acquaintance didn't have the network in place to support their enterprise.

[Andy Hayter]

Since you are so IT savvy, Google International Money Order.