RCH 1907 Private Owner Wagons - with added 2024 range.

[Oldddudders]

21 hours ago, Andy Hayter said:

 

 

Added to which, any bits of coal or dust  missing the target wagon or bouncing out would find itself working its way into the balance mechanism and would invalidate the measurement in no time at all.  

Which was an important issue anyway. ISTR Messrs Pooley having a vehicle to check weighbridges for accuracy. 

[Compound2632]

11 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

Which was an important issue anyway. ISTR Messrs Pooley having a vehicle to check weighbridges for accuracy. 

 

As I understand it, the Great Western contracted weighbridge maintenance to Henry Pooley & Son Ltd., the railway providing weighing machine adjusting vans for their use. I think other companies did likewise, but others kept the job in-house, including the Midland.

 

 

[Embedded link to catalogue thumbnail of MRSC 64100.]

[Wickham Green too]

3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

... cattle wagons as small, medium, and large, with statutory internal lengths of 13' 6", 15' 6", and 18' 0". ...

Presumably statutory minima.

[JSpencer]

I went to the Chatham MRC show a week ago and picked up one of their delightful Chatham Dockyard versions.

 

Back home only just now and here she is in the Dockyard part of my layout with a couple of older other Chatham Dockyard wagons:

(The others are left, a Hornby, mid 1990s version upgraded to metal wheels and smaller couplings, right a Dapol edition, I believe Dapol also did 140 as well, but clearly the Rapido one is more accurate to the prototype here).

 

 

 

And while at the show, I also picked a Hornby Munitions wagon for £10 with load. I'll repaint the load (far too modern in appearance) but already changed the couplings:

 

 

(Now there was a lot more other stuff I picked up, but won't flood the thread with them).

[JSpencer]

My 14th RCH wagon arrived today,

(the last of the first batch I had on order, another 9 to come from the future batch using different tooling),

the Tilmanstone wagon. The most accurate Tilmanstone wagon in RTR to date.

 

In a train with my 6 others (3 Oxfordrail, and 3 by Dapol), pulled by the delightful Victory tank in EKR livery:

 

 

Edited July 30 by JSpencer

[MartinTrucks]

On 27/07/2024 at 18:39, Compound2632 said:

I was recently burrowing into these as they give, I think, the first legal sanction to the classification of cattle wagons as small, medium, and large, with statutory internal lengths of 13' 6", 15' 6", and 18' 0". Prior to this, I think this had just been by agreement of the General Managers' Committee at the RCH, in 1872. As far as I can see, this is the only instance where the dimensions of British railway vehicles have been the subject of legislation (unless you count gauge, of course). 

Perhaps readers should be reminded at this point that cattle wagons were also used to carry other breeds of livestock; sheep, goats, pigs, mules, asses and horses (for the knackers) being some.

Best regards,

Martin 

[Compound2632]

7 minutes ago, MartinTrucks said:

Perhaps readers should be reminded at this point that cattle wagons were also used to carry other breeds of livestock; sheep, goats, pigs, mules, asses and horses (for the knackers) being some.

 

Yes indeed. But that is by-the-bye as far as cattle wagon sizes are concerned. The consignor was charged for the hire of the wagon by size, then per animal, according to the scale of (maximum) charges set out in the Order Confirmation Acts, both charges being applied per mile.

 

In 1913, the Midland conveyed 2,371,897 head of livestock, of which 1,356,548 started their journeys at Midland stations. These comprised 13,675 horses, 335,007 cattle, 51,885 calves, 811,695 sheep, 142,823 pigs, and 1,393 ‘miscellaneous’. A book of livestock consignment note counterfoils from Wirksworth in 1913-14 survives in the Midland Railway Study Centre collection. From these, it appears that a large wagon could accommodate up to 10 cattle or 40 sheep*, a medium wagon 8 cattle or 30 sheep, and a small wagon 6 cattle or 24 sheep. Mixed loads were common; it seems a pig took up the space of two sheep, despite being charged at the same rate.

 

*cf. Homme 40 – Chevaux (en long) 8.

 

On 27/07/2024 at 22:43, Wickham Green too said:

Presumably statutory minima.

 

A statutory minimum has the habit of becoming a de facto maximum - certainly in this case.

[RapidoCorbs]

1 hour ago, JSpencer said:

My 14th RCH wagon arrived today (the last of the first batch I had on order, another 9 to come from the future batch using different tooling),

the Tilmanstone wagon. The most accurate of them in RTR today.

 

In a train with my 6 others (3 Oxfordrail, and 3 by Dapol), pulled by the delightful Victory tank in EKR livery:

 

 

Glad it has arrived 😀

Edited July 29 by RapidoCorbs

[Wickham Green too]

45 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

A statutory minimum has the habit of becoming a de facto maximum - certainly in this case.

It's surprising how few drawings in available wagon books show internal lengths : the LSWR wagons in Southern Wagons shows the exact dimensions with the partition in each of the three positions - SECR and Southern wagons were 18'4'' inside which presumably allows 4'' for the partition - LBSCR wagons were 18' inside with no partition but other drawings only show the headstock length : the LMS 19'1'' seems over generous for 18' + partition and ends : 7'' longer than the BR type ! 

I guess the longest cattle wagons were those of the Metropolitan at 22' - but they offered FOUR partition positions ! ( the length results from their former life as rail wagons )

[Compound2632]

13 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

SECR and Southern wagons were 18'4'' inside which presumably allows 4'' for the partition - LBSCR wagons were 18' inside with no partition but other drawings only show the headstock length : the LMS 19'1'' seems over generous for 18' + partition and ends : 7'' longer than the BR type ! 

 

The LMS 19' 1" length goes back to the first Midland large cattle wagons built with provision for the partition, in 1894. 18' 0" clear internal length, 4" for the partition, and an extra 9" for the corner pillars, which were 4½" x 5", the shorter dimension being to the side elevation. The inside of the end planks was in line with the inner face of the corner pillars. So the external length is due to the timber framing; a wagon to the same internal dimensions but with steel framing could easily be 7" shorter:

 

 

 

[Compressed and cropped scan of Midland Railway Study Centre 88-G5/49, large cattle wagon to Drg. 1008, lot 336 of 1894.]

 

The LSWR and other similar designs are shorter than the Midland type because the end planks are in line with the outer face of the headstocks, with end pillars running the full height, so 18' 0" clear length + 4" for the partition + 2¼"-thick planks at each end gives 18' 8½" over headstocks. 

 

Prior to 1892, Midland cattle wagons had been 3" under the RCH agreed length, with large wagons 17' 9" clear inside, 18' 6" over headstocks, there being, as built, no partition. This meant that when fitted with the partition, from 1892 onwards, they were about 7" under length when hired out as large. 

 

How did we get into the minutiae of cattle wagon design in a mineral wagon topic?

[Wickham Green too]

19 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

... How did we get into the minutiae of cattle wagon design in a mineral wagon topic?

Probably 'cos there's precious little more to say about the Rapido 1907s ..... short of "mine turned up this morning" etc.