The J67/68/69 ‘Buckjumper’, By Accurascale

[Wickham Green too]

3 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

... Some aren't perfectly concentric but springing/compensation tends to mask any excessive wobble.

I rather doubt that the Accurascale locos will come with full springing/compensation !!?! ................................ if anyone choses to throw away a perfectly good ( though rather narrow ) chassis and build their own sprung/compensated replacement they can fit whatever wheel / axle combination they fancy !

[davknigh]

FWIW the Rapido Hunslet did have the centre drivers sprung, problem was the rods were rigid. A mate of mine did convert a Hunslet to P4 by replacing the rods with jointed ones and re-wheeling with Gibson’s. Come to that the Bachmann 08 had a sprung centre driver, the Dapol LSWR O4 has a compensated lead driver so suspension of a sort in not unknown in RTR 00.

 

Cheers,

 

David

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

1 hour ago, davknigh said:

Come to that the Bachmann 08 had a sprung centre driver,

The mechanisms for their Jinty, 56xx, 57xx likewise, WD 2-8-0 2nd and 4th driven axles either side of the gear axle, 9F 4th driven axle, 5MT, A1, A2, leading driven axle. There may be more; it was a very good feature and any manufacturer choosing to emulate this would be most welcome...

[Tramshed]

On 04/10/2023 at 19:01, Bucoops said:

Nice 🙂 but still too early with that roof 😑 go on - you know you want to to one suitable for mid to late 1930s 😁

Bucoops makes an important point. Checking the Yeadon register, no.27 had it's roof lowered during a general repair at Stratford between 14/4 and 20/8/1925. The same date given for it's renumbering to 7027. It should therefore have the same cab profile as that you have already tooled for 68646, ie lower than the chimney top. Happy to wait a little longer for mine in the interests of accuracy.🙂

[Wickham Green too]

4 minutes ago, Tramshed said:

... no.27 had it's roof lowered... between 14/4 and 20/8/1925. The same date given for it's renumbering to 7027. ...

Well, that's four months in works so it COULD have got the number before the new roof ............................................. if the roof was an afterthought once the loco had been through the paintshop ! 🙄

[Islesy]

1 hour ago, Tramshed said:

Bucoops makes an important point. Checking the Yeadon register, no.27 had it's roof lowered during a general repair at Stratford between 14/4 and 20/8/1925. The same date given for it's renumbering to 7027. It should therefore have the same cab profile as that you have already tooled for 68646, ie lower than the chimney top. Happy to wait a little longer for mine in the interests of accuracy.🙂

It’s a bit more complicated than that @Tramshed, given that 7027, like 7025, was renumbered in 1923. This period saw several variations on livery and legend, with GER Grey with yellow control numbers, L&NER legend, 70xx and xxE being noted as being in use. With 7027 entering General Repair under the GER, and re-entering traffic under the LNER, there are conflicting opinions as to the livery it carried between 1923 and the next General Repair in 1925.

Given that there are several areas of build and tooling that need improving for 7027, and after chatting to a couple of GER modelling sources, to prevent any ambiguity the cab will be swapped to the lower arc version and the bunker rails will be switched to the filled in versions, so that the model’s operating period can be extended into the 1930s.

These improvements should be in place for when we receive the decoration samples, hopefully in time for the beginning of the 2024 show season.

 

All the best,

Paul

[NHY 581]

Mmmmmm........GER grey.......yum.......

 

 

 

[Pint of Adnams]

It's worth remembering the following sequence of events wrt LNER liveries and numbering - the preceding style would usually last until the next General repair, but any succeeding style could not be applied before the date that standard was to be implemented. Information readily available in the RCTS 'greenie' Part 1 and tailored here for the GE Section. Note too that Stratford continued to paint some locomotives in the Grey (the darker post-1921 shade) with the 1921 GE control numbers as late as 1927.

 

From March 1923 - L. & N. E. R. (square full stops) in full in 7.5” shaded letters with numbers in 12” shaded letters . At the same time the GE oval numberplates were replaced by smaller oval works plates (Doncaster did not apply the full stops).

From May 1923 - L & N E R (full stops now omitted)
Numbers also shown on the front buffer beam in 4.5” letters, and also rear buffer beam for tank engines.

Lettering in this style was gold for passenger, shaded red to the right and black below, and  yellow for goods engines, shaded red to the right and brown below, through until the introduction of the Class A-4 and streamlined rolling stock when Gill Sans was first introduced. Subsequent changes during wartime and under Thompson. Numbers on the buffer beam, either gold or yellow, were shaded black.

The inside of the frames, frame stays and axles to be painted red.

Full livery specifications are in the RCTS 'greenie' part 1.

 

From June 1923 - L N E R - the ampersand now also dropped.

 

From September 1923 - sectional suffixes applied (E for GE Section) in 4.5” letters.

 

From February 1924 - sectional numbering introduced (+7000 for GE Section). 7000 was added to the existing number, such that locomotives with single or double digit numbers had a prefix of 700 or 70, whilst those with four digit numbers had the first digit of 1 changed to an 8. Initially, rather than the existing LNER number being centrally reapplied the additional transfers were placed in front, so that the number was no longer centrally positioned, or in the case of existing four digit numbers the 1 was substituted by an 8 and this is often quite discernable in photographs.

 

From Summer 1928 as an economy measure the number of classes that were to be painted green was reduced and the red lining was supposed to be omitted from goods engines.

 

To complete the picture, tender engines initially carried the lettering and number on the tender side until someone twigged that made tender exchanging a pain, then from November 1928 the numbers were transferred to the cabside and nominally both the number on the cab and initials LNER on the tender were now to be 12". Where beading had been applied a number of work arounds appeared, including the use of smaller height figures or subsequently removal of the beading.

 

Other useful references include:

 

Railway Liveries - LNER, Brian Haresnape, Ian Allan 1984

The Big Four in Colour1935-50, Jenkinson, Edginton & Smart, Pendragon/Atlantic, undated

LNER Locomotives in Colour 1936-1948, White & Johnston, Colourprint 2002

LNER Locomotive Liveries, Nick Campling, Model Railway Constructor October 1967

LNER Locomotive Liveries parts 1-3, RE Hillard, Model Railway Constructor May, June & July 1979

 

 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Pint of Adnams
Minor tweaks. Added note about inside frames being red.

[Bucoops]

3 hours ago, Islesy said:

It’s a bit more complicated than that @Tramshed, given that 7027, like 7025, was renumbered in 1923. This period saw several variations on livery and legend, with GER Grey with yellow control numbers, L&NER legend, 70xx and xxE being noted as being in use. With 7027 entering General Repair under the GER, and re-entering traffic under the LNER, there are conflicting opinions as to the livery it carried between 1923 and the next General Repair in 1925.

Given that there are several areas of build and tooling that need improving for 7027, and after chatting to a couple of GER modelling sources, to prevent any ambiguity the cab will be swapped to the lower arc version and the bunker rails will be switched to the filled in versions, so that the model’s operating period can be extended into the 1930s.

These improvements should be in place for when we receive the decoration samples, hopefully in time for the beginning of the 2024 show season.

 

All the best,

Paul

 

Yay thank you - ordered :)

[Tramshed]

4 hours ago, Islesy said:

.....to prevent any ambiguity the cab will be swapped to the lower arc version and the bunker rails will be switched to the filled in versions, so that the model’s operating period can be extended into the 1930s.

These improvements should be in place for when we receive the decoration samples, hopefully in time for the beginning of the 2024 show season.

 

All the best,

Paul

From the evidence available, including the learned contribution from Pint of Adnams, it appears that you have made the right decision re changing to the lower arc roof. Many thanks for your positive response to feedback on here (particularly given it is a Sunday). My order is secure and I am sure you will be rewarded with many more. 

[Paul.Uni]

I see from the Locomotion Models Advent Calendar, that no. 87 in GER blue has been announced as part of the Nation Collection in Miniature range.

[Steamport Southport]

Ah. I was unsure whether that was previously announced or not.

 

Another possibility. But I'm more leaning towards the BR blue one at the moment.

 

 

 

Jason

[NHY 581]

31 minutes ago, Paul.Uni said:

I see from the Locomotion Models Advent Calendar, that no. 87 in GER blue has been announced as part of the Nation Collection in Miniature range.

 

Interesting. No where to be found on the locomotion website. 

 

You seem to have announced the pre announcement of the announcement...

 

Rob. 

[greatcoleswoodhalt]

6 minutes ago, NHY 581 said:

Interesting. No where to be found on the locomotion website. 

 

You seem to have announced the pre announcement of the announcement...

 

Rob. 

 

It appears to be squirreled away under Future Releases (found following the email link)...

 

• https://locomotionmodels.com/exclusives/future-releases/ger-s56-j69-class-no-87?utm_source=wordfly&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=SKB%3AShop%2CLMAdventJ69%2C01.12.23&utm_content=version_A
• https://wfly.co/m6G3K?utm_source=wordfly&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=SKB%3AShop%2CLMAdvent%2C01.12.23-DRAFT&utm_content=version_A

Edited December 1, 2023 by greatcoleswoodhalt

[Steamport Southport]

26 minutes ago, NHY 581 said:

 

Interesting. No where to be found on the locomotion website. 

 

You seem to have announced the pre announcement of the announcement...

 

Rob. 

 

Got an email about it earlier disguised as a Twelve Days Of Christmas type of thing!

 

The sort of thing many people probably ignore....

 

 

Jason

[Midland Mole]

1 minute ago, Steamport Southport said:

The sort of thing many people probably ignore....

 

Which is exactly what I did 😄

 

A lovely announcement, and one I'm surprised wasn't announced before 👌

[NHY 581]

Thanks all for the confirmation. 

 

Can it be confirmed that No87 is to be released  in original form ( as built)  or as preserved ( with any in service mods ). 

 

I ask, details aside, as the blue on Locomotion's No87 looks more like that applied to Accurascale's Liverpool street pilot than their Ultramarine blue GER No.84. 

 

Rob  

Edited December 1, 2023 by NHY 581

[Islesy]

It's in 'as preserved' condition @NHY 581 based on our surveys over the last couple of years at Bressingham.

 

All the best,

Paul

[Bucoops]

There goes the bank balance again 😳

[NHY 581]

1 hour ago, Islesy said:

It's in 'as preserved' condition @NHY 581 based on our surveys over the last couple of years at Bressingham.

 

All the best,

Paul

 

 

Thanks Paul. 

 

What, if any, are the differences then between as built and as preserved? 

 

Ideally, I'd like to run 87 along with 84 in a Great Eastern setting. 

 

Rob. 

[Islesy]

1 hour ago, NHY 581 said:

 

 

Thanks Paul. 

 

What, if any, are the differences then between as built and as preserved? 

 

Ideally, I'd like to run 87 along with 84 in a Great Eastern setting. 

 

Rob. 

It’ll need a complete repaint Rob - the current livery is Stratford’s version of the GER and it’s wrong in body colour, and lettering colour and shading.

[NHY 581]

9 hours ago, Islesy said:

It’ll need a complete repaint Rob - the current livery is Stratford’s version of the GER and it’s wrong in body colour, and lettering colour and shading.

 

Morning Paul. 

 

Thank you. That's how the graphic looked on the Locomotion website, closer to ( if not the same as ) your Liverpool street pilot. 

 

So, two '84's it is. 

 

Rob

[The Stationmaster]

19 hours ago, Bucoops said:

There goes the bank balance again 😳

Look on the bright side - you're not wasting it on wine. women, and song!

[Jammy2305]

No.87 (and No.490) were paint matched to a paint sample hidden in Stratford works. The problem with blue is it darkens in the presence of Sulphur Dioxide and so the shade as seen on No.87 was a lot muddier than actual GE ultramarine. 

 

For the purposes of preserving the loco is was "good enough" at the time, but it wouldn't be viable to represent a GE era loco, unless you used it as a base for some heavy weathering...

 

- James

[Pint of Adnams]

On 01/12/2023 at 21:06, NHY 581 said:

 

 

Thanks Paul. 

 

What, if any, are the differences then between as built and as preserved? 

 

Ideally, I'd like to run 87 along with 84 in a Great Eastern setting. 

 

Rob. 

 

For one thing the boiler will have been changed several times... but it has correctly the 4-column Ramsbottom safety valve arrangement in the casing and whistle just in advance of the front spectacle plate. The cab roof, 3-bar coal rails, Macallan variable blast pipe operating linkage, smokebox door, smooth smokebox wrapper and continuous handrail are all correctly reverted to the original. There's a rear 3/4 view No 85 on p96 of Yeadon volume 48.

 

Contemporary photographs, due to the nature of the film at that time, do not capture reds so the lining, coupling rods, buffers tocks and buffer beams appear grey. The GER transfers on the preserved example are not placed at quite the same spacing but are closer together. I believe that the painting specification/description is in the Locos section of the GERS website but am unable to check as it is down for an upgrade. The blue was quite translucent so its colour relied substantially on the colour of the undercoat, the number of coats, and the subsequent varnish, which imparted a slight yellowing and darkened further over time. With the S56 being in a large artificially lit shed it's nigh on impossible to see the correct colour as preserved, and then cameras add their own variation to the images.