Endeavour

[The Johnster]

5 hours ago, Hroth said:

Perhaps Morse felt cynical because Strange achieved higher promotion? Anyhow, perhaps all will be revealed this Sunday.

 

 

Morse is morbidly self-effacing and decent, and jealousy of that sort would be very out of character.  His relationship with Strange in later times is ambivalent, though, with Strange regarding Morse as a bit of a pita with his cleverness and intuitive theories (especially when they prove to be correct) and Morse barely tolerating criticism from Strange, so there is a rift between them, though Strange mellows a bit during Morse's later career.  Strange is not good at handling the pressures of authority and becomes stressed easily; maybe he is not ideal promotion material but has kept his nose clean and his head below the parapet enough to succeed career-wise since whatever cataclysmic event affects both men on Sunday.  He becomes the classic grumpy chief inspector under pressure to get results, which does not sit well with Morse's methods.

 

Of course, Morse's bitterness may simply be down to his regarding himself as a failure.  He failed in education, which was of core importance to him, he failed in love, losing Joan, he failed to preserve the ethos of the city men and blames himself for this failure, and he fails in his career, not reaching the levels that a man of his ability should have reached because of his engendering of antipathy from his 'superior' officers and because he is a classic fullfiller of his own prophecies of failure, too good for the world he inhabits.  He has no friends, with DeBryn (another solitary pilgrim) and, eventually, his young Northumbrian sergeant, being the closest resemblences of friends, and is lonely, although his preference is to be alone with his music, crosswords, and beer.  It has already tranpired that he has alcoholic tendencies and his relationship with beer is clearly much more edgy and fraught than we originally realised, a lifelong struggle against the darkness.

 

It is this darkness that makes him such a fascinating character, and it lies shallow but goes deep.  He never again fully gives in to it, though, which is admirable and shows the strength of his character.  Character, honour, decency; things we would like to believe are ideals for a policeman, and very rarely are in reality, policemen being human.  He is in fact an almost perfect policeman, not that most of his colleagues are much aware of it and he is unpopular among his peers, which suggests that the loss of the city men has not ever really been corrected (the baddies won, and their cause triumphed, with the resultant poisoned culture still being in place for many years, traces of it still surfacing in modern times), but a deeply flawed and failed, but believeable, human being, an incurably wounded soul.

 

Whatever happens on Sunday, he should have given up at that point, but the obsession is too deeply rooted in him.  He has scores to settle, and cannot be at peace until they are settled.  They never are settled, of course, and he is never at peace in his life.

[Fat Controller]

Am I correct in remembering that Strange appears as an ACC (or similar) in at least one episode of the original Morse. Obviously, it was a different episode, but he retained the habit of referring to others as 'Matey', whilst making it obvious  that it was only a figure of speech.  Said officer appeared to have done his National Service in submarines, given the cab-badge and photo on the wall of his office; .

[JohnR]

26 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

Am I correct in remembering that Strange appears as an ACC (or similar) in at least one episode of the original Morse. Obviously, it was a different episode, but he retained the habit of referring to others as 'Matey', whilst making it obvious  that it was only a figure of speech.  Said officer appeared to have done his National Service in submarines, given the cab-badge and photo on the wall of his office; .

 

In the original series of books and the Morse TV series, Strange was Chief Superintendent and Morse's boss. 

[Fat Controller]

1 minute ago, JohnR said:

 

In the original series of books and the Morse TV series, Strange was Chief Superintendent and Morse's boss. 

Thanks; that's what I remember.

[tomparryharry]

Ok! Good news! I've obtained exclusive access to the last Endeavour script!

 

Oh, hang on: Someone at the door....

 

Arrgh!! Crash! Bang! Thud! Pow! Ouch! Gerroff! Pow! Thud! Crash! Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...........................

[Hroth]

Lurching back to the first episode in this concluding series (as many bodies as a Midsomer Murder), there's a couple of points I'd like to raise...

 

Referring to his time in London, Thursday mentions that his first nick was Cable Street, reminding me of the disreputable Watch Station in TPs Night Watch, staffed by the most corrupt officers in the Watch.  An indicator perhaps?

 

And Thursdays phone number in the matchbook. Why did the nailed snout have to look it up in a phone book while on the run? Planted evidence perhaps?

 

Has anyone a feel for the year this season is set in?  The body in the college grounds was photographed by the pathologist using a Polaroid SX-70 mk1 camera so it can't be before 1973, and I'd be inclined to favour 1974 at least.

 

Or am I barking up the wrong Quircus Quircus?

 

Edited March 12, 2023 by Hroth

[unravelled]

OK, not Endeavour, but there's always something which has niggled me about Morse's Jag, and it's probably a personal prejudice. Moving from the books to tv, he was downgraded(?) from a Lancia, fair enough for all sorts of production reasons. The thing that has never seemed in character is the choice of a vinyl top model. As I said, this is probably personal prejudice, as I've never owned  a car new enough to have a vinyl roof, and I've always assumed them to be another unnecessary problem waiting to happen.

 

Apologies to owners and maintainers of vinyl roofed cars, is it just me?

 

Dave

[Fat Controller]

2 hours ago, Hroth said:

Lurching back to the first episode in this concluding series (as many bodies as a Midsomer Murder), there's a couple of points I'd like to raise...

 

Referring to his time in London, Thursday mentions that his first nick was Cable Street, reminding me of the disreputable Watch Station in TPs Night Watch, staffed by the most corrupt officers in the Watch.  An indicator perhaps?

 

And Thursdays phone number in the matchbook. Why did the nailed snout have to look it up in a phone book while on the run? Planted evidence perhaps?

 

Has anyone a feel for the year this season is set in?  The body in the college grounds was photographed by the pathologist using a Polaroid SX-70 mk1 camera so it can't be before 1973, and I'd be inclined to favour 1974 at least.

 

Or am I barking up the wrong Quircus Quircus?

 

The reference to 'Cable St' also refers to his old boss, Sam Vimes, a direct nod to Terry Pratchett. He mentions it when offering the WPC a cigarette, following the shooting at the bank siege.

I had a Polaroid in 1972; two of my A-level subjects involved a lot of fieldwork and attendant photography, and dad reckoned it would save having to go back to sites when I'd found out that shots hadn't worked.

[43110andyb]

Having watched all the ‘Morse’ related series I was hoping to see a few nods to the originals (this isn’t a criticism as I have loved the Endevour outings).
     A few spring to mind- the character of Mc Nutt  (Masonic Mysteries) and his current Jag 248 RPA. 

   There are many more of course and Probably all good reasons they weren’t such as time lines etc -if I was to try and work it out.

Edited March 12, 2023 by 43110andyb

[KeithMacdonald]

On 08/03/2023 at 13:56, Hroth said:

Surely Thursday* must be in line for retirement soon, it would be cruel and unnecessary to bump him off! 

 

Inspector Thursday (Roger Allam) and Chief Superintendent Bright (Anton Lesser)  both rematerialised c.25 years earlier in Series 1 Episode 4 "Eagle Day" of Foyle's War. Thursday as an 1940 RAF officer that does get bumped off, and Chief Superintendent Bright (Anton Lesser) as a dodgy art dealer. They might have borrowed a Tardis from David Tennant who appeared one episode earlier in Series 1 Episode 3 "A Lesson In Murder"

[KeithMacdonald]

On 09/03/2023 at 08:00, AndyB said:

Chief Superintendent Bright was seen wistfully leafing through a travel brochure for India. £5 says that's a certain clue he'll fall in the line of duty saving one or more of the others. Closest he'll get to India will be the nearest Tandoori. 

 

Perhaps a nod to his back story?

 

Quote

Chief Superintendent Bright served as a young subaltern in India. His medal ribbons demonstrate service during World War II. In order: 1939-45 Star, Burma Star (service during the Burma Campaign), Defence Medal (home service), War Medal (with oak leaf clasp denoting a King's Commendation for brave conduct) and 1953 Coronation Medal.

 

Or so says this:

https://inspectormorse.fandom.com/wiki/Superintendent_Bright

[KeithMacdonald]

On 10/03/2023 at 19:53, The Johnster said:

It is this darkness that makes him such a fascinating character, and it lies shallow but goes deep.  He never again fully gives in to it, though, which is admirable and shows the strength of his character.  Character, honour, decency; things we would like to believe are ideals for a policeman, and very rarely are in reality, policemen being human. 

 

Too true.

 

Many decades ago, a friend and colleague was involved in organising some psychometric testing for the Home Office and Hendon Police College. The Inspector (of training at Hendon) was hoping the testing would confirm those exact personality traits (honour, decency, integrity, and rational behaviour). They were looking for Dixon of Dock Green characters, or John Thaw as Inspector Morse. What the psychometric testing revealed was more like John Thaw as Detective Inspector Jack Regan. Too many people who joined the police for the power, emotive (not rational), bending the rules, cutting corners, the end justifies the means, etc. With the inevitable tendency (of some) towards bribery and corruption.

[micklner]

1 hour ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

Too true.

 

Many decades ago, a friend and colleague was involved in organising some psychometric testing for the Home Office and Hendon Police College. The Inspector (of training at Hendon) was hoping the testing would confirm those exact personality traits (honour, decency, integrity, and rational behaviour). They were looking for Dixon of Dock Green characters, or John Thaw as Inspector Morse. What the psychometric testing revealed was more like John Thaw as Detective Inspector Jack Regan. Too many people who joined the police for the power, emotive (not rational), bending the rules, cutting corners, the end justifies the means, etc. With the inevitable tendency (of some) towards bribery and corruption.

Hardly surprising re the corruption of some in a very different world from today . The Police were very poorly paid and treated in the 1960's and into the 1970's until the Edmund Davies report increased pay by 50% overnight in 1978.

We are all human at the end of the day, Police etc are no different !!.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Davies,_Baron_Edmund-Davies

Edited March 12, 2023 by micklner

[The Johnster]

There will always, I suspect, be an element of policemen that joined for reasons that are not to do with character, honour, or decency; this does not automatically make them corrupt or ineffective.  There is an attraction to being 'allowed' to break the rules (driving aound at high speed making lots of noise, 'appropriate' restraining/violence) because you are 'special' in some way, which is conferred by the uniform and the warrant card.  If you have had a formative childhood that involved any percieved injustice, and many of us do, it looks like a good option as a career.

 

I remember being very impressed, unfavourably so, some years ago by a pair of uniformed police officers at Heathrow Terminal 3 arrivals (I was picking up my sister and family arriving from Canada), prominently armed with big nasty looking guns (I don't know much about guns but these were probably some sort of automatic rifle, it was back in the early 80s), and swaggering through a quite harmless family encampment of South Asian people that had established themselves in a 'seating area', scattering toys and snacks everywhere.  Nazis, palpable hostility, and of course they got completely away with it.  I am congenitally unable to take issue with people with big guns...  I was heartened by the response of other passengers and public in the terminal, who rallied instantly to restore order in the family camp, making apologetic comments about the Master Race.

 

Had a run-in later that morning with an airport cop; having failed to find a trolley for sis & co's stuff, I went and got the car and pulled up on the double yellows outside the terminal, hurrying up the loading.  Plod walks up in the way they do, notebook out and licking his pencil, and I'm not in the mood.  And I can see a possible way out, no harm in trying!

 

'This your vehicle, sir?'.  'No. officer'.  Piggy little eyes light up, and I explain that my vehicle is a Riley Elf, not an ideal tool for a blast up the M4, and that this big Datsun estate had been lent to me by my parents' next door neighbour.  Off he goes to check this out, and comes back a minute or so later to tell me that I have parked illegally (no sh*t, Sherlock) and he was going to write me a ticket, and that anything I said etc.  I'm ready for this, 'I will say, officer, that you are entirely correct, I have knowinging parked illegally and freely admit this offence, and am willing to pay whatever fine Uxbridge Magistrates see fit to impose on me for this offence.  Now, I believe I am correct in saying that, having booked me, you cannot do so again for the same offence, so I am going to now do two things.  I am going to leave the car here while we go for breakfast in the terminal, and then I am going to sit in it and watch while you book the driver of that Rolls Royce with a personalised plate parked in front of me'!

 

He gave me a hell of a look, but I met his gaze and kept my nerve.  He ripped the ticket up and spake thus, 'Oh, just f*ck off, you Taff 'stard, now!!!'.  Family was most impressed...

[AndyB]

£5 says Morse survives the episode. 

[Hroth]

4 minutes ago, AndyB said:

£5 says Morse survives the episode. 

 

I'll see your fiver and raise you Strange...

 

Not watching live, its being recorded and I'll watch later in the week. Easier to skip the adverts too! I'm not worried about spoilers, I prefer to know whats going on beforehand...

 

Edited March 12, 2023 by Hroth

[KeithMacdonald]

24 minutes ago, AndyB said:

£5 says Morse survives the episode. 

 

20 minutes ago, Hroth said:

i'll see your fiver and raise you Strange...

 

Hey, come on lads, that's easy betting, we all know they were both in the original Inspector Morse series! 😀

[Metr0Land]

Maybe the Jag will be written off, that's not in Morse.

[KeithMacdonald]

3 minutes ago, Metr0Land said:

Maybe the Jag will be written off, that's not in Morse.

 

Well, there will probably be a plot line that explains Sergeant Endeavour giving up his black Jag Mk1 (reg KAN169) and Inspector Morse getting a maroon Jag. Mk2 (reg 248 RPA)

[Hroth]

5 minutes ago, Metr0Land said:

Maybe the Jag will be written off, that's not in Morse.

 

The Jag in Morse was so tempremental that it often had to be rolled into shot and they tried to minimise scenes where Morse got into it and drove off...

 

The current one seems to be able to move under it's own steam*!

 

* And not from the radiator either.

 

[DaveSmith]

The recorder messed up, so will have to wait for the repeats to see the final instalment of this long running saga.

[Hroth]

Must be all over bar the shouting by now....

 

[didcot]

Lovely cameo at the end.😢

[Metr0Land]

Also they explained nicely how Morse was working in an older building than the recent modern HQ from the last few series, when Bright said they're thinking of reopening Cowley.

 

Not sure why they bothered with the gunshot in the churchyard almost at the end, as we all know Endeavour/Morse couldn't have topped himself so what was the point of that mini-cliffhanger?

[NIK]

Hopefully the following is not a spoiler alert.

 

If found the final episode a stonker. I think Russell Lewis writing all Endeavour episodes was a tremendous achievement I suspect unlikely to be repeated although I was first amused and then annoyed about some episodes that were over stylised and in the case of one episode borrowing not just the plot of the greatest American novel and after that from a good film (not the Great Gatsby).

 

I speculated there might be a spin off from Endeavour - Thursday, Private Investigator, Trewlove making her way through the Met, Strange but True, DeBryn but maybe not.

 

Regards

 

Nik

Edited March 12, 2023 by NIK