Tillig TT track and points for TT:120

[Porfuera]

I'm thinking of building a small(ish) shunting plank based on a 5-3-3 Inglenook with the addition of a loco runaround and maybe a couple of extra sidings. From what I can see on Anyrail, Tillig's small-radius EW1 points could offer a good space-saving alternative to either Peco or Hornby's current medium-radius points. Additionally there doesn't yet seem to be any release date given by either Peco or Hornby for small-radius points and we could be waiting quite a while for these to arrive so Tillig's small-radius points could be an answer. I hope the following might be of use to anyone looking to buy TT:120 small radius points in the near future.

 

I placed an order with Modellbahnshop Lippe (no connection except as a one-time customer) and I ordered the following:

 

- two small-radius EW1 R/H points 15 degrees (83323)
- two small-radius EW1 L/H points 15 degrees (83324)
- short double slip (83300)
- wooden sleeper flexi-track, 7 lengths (83125)
- rail joiners (86102)
- insulated rail joiners (86101)

 

The order was placed on Sunday last week, was despatched on Tuesday and was delivered by FedEx on Friday morning. Pretty quick, I thought. German VAT was deducted from the order price, which more than offset the postage of 12.90 Euros. I haven't yet had any request for additional import/handling charges from FedEx but it has only been a couple of days.

 

Apologies in advance for the picture quality and the lighting in some of the following photos.

 

Tillig's packaging isn't quite as eco-friendly as Peco's or even Hornby's - the box is cardboard but there is a large clear plastic tray for such a small point. Four rail joiners are supplied unfitted in a small bag - so that means three for the point and one for the carpet monster. There are also three sheets of A4 double-sided multilingual instructions for fitting point motors, explaining track geometries and so on.

 

 

The point itself is quite nice, I think. They are electrofrog with a metal tab rather than a wire for wiring the frog but these frogs are so small (less than 15mm) that it may not be worth doing. The two tabs for the surface-mounted point motors are not part of the moulding and the large tab comes out quite easily by rotating it in a downwards direction. The small one seems to be a little more difficult to remove and I might cut this away rather than risk damaging the point. The only downside to the point is that they do not have a locking spring for the stretcher bar/switch rails and as such are they not really suitable for use on a temporary table-top layout unless you are perhaps going to wire in a surface-mounted point motor. Also, the tie bar/stretcher bar is fitted quite loosely to the underside of the switch rails and wobbles backwards and forwards a bit which seems a little odd but this is just the way they're made and hopefully shouldn't be a problem.

 

 

Looking at the underside of the point you can see that the stock rails are electrically bonded to the closure rails (wing rails?) and also to the 'V' rails (not very clear in the photo so I circled them in red). Also you can see the tab for wiring the frog more clearly. Hopefully this can be bent through 90 degrees without problems so that it can go vertically through the baseboard and be wired in underneath a layout board if you want to do that.

 

 

Here is a comparison of the Tillig, Hornby and Peco points to show how much shorter the Tillig points are. Tillig are 129.5mm, Hornby 166mm and Peco 180mm. The Tillig curve radius is 353mm, which is the same as Hornby's R3 curve.

 

 

Here is a comparison of the three types of points as crossovers. The Tillig and Hornby points fitted together very easily and both rails were the same height with no discernible 'bump' when going from one to the other. The track spacing also appears to be the same - this makes sense if Hornby are using Tillig's geometry as the 'standard' for TT:120.

The Peco points (top pair) are not actually connected to the Hornby points but are just laid on top because I would have had to cut away some sleepers and I didn't want to do that for a photo.

On the bottom Tillig point you can see that the larger point motor tab (the one next to the frog) has been removed. The smaller one is still in place.

 

 

Finally here is the Tillig point diagram showing the point dimensions (R22 and G5 can be ignored - these refer to track pieces in the Tillig track range):
 

 

I hope that is useful. I forgot to take photos of the flexi-track and the double slip so I'll post some information on those tomorrow.

 

Cheers, Neil.

Edited March 7, 2023 by Porfuera

[PaulRhB]

9 hours ago, Porfuera said:

Also, the tie bar/stretcher bar is fitted quite loosely to the underside of the switch rails and wobbles backwards and forwards a bit which seems a little odd but this is just the way they're made and hopefully shouldn't be a problem.

The tiebar is the weak point of the Tillig points and the blades come adrift rather easily, the snap of solenoid or with over pressure with stall type point motors. They can be fixed with a replacement copperclad tiebar but not easy in situ. For a temporary table layout their Unitrak style range would be ideal. 

 

Note there are concrete and wood sleeper versions so be careful which parts you order,

 

 

there are also pieces specially to join tracks at points, you only need one line to have the cut out piece. 

 

These adapter tracks are shown at the frog end of the points, 

 

 

Edited March 7, 2023 by PaulRhB

[Austin Allegro]

Just been researching some Tillig for a relatively cheap layout I’m planning with a couple of double slips, two curved points and some passing loops / station and a shunting yard. I’ve got a couple of lengths of Peco flexi track so will see how that fits together and if it’s not too bad, I’ll use that for the curves and straights.

 

Just wanted to say thanks for the Tillig info. It looks like the sleeper spacing is pretty spot on with Hornby’s at least.

[Peachy]

@Porfuera I’m interested to know how did you get on with these? 
Now that there seems like no further Streamline offerings on the immediate horizon from Peco, (certainly not until 2025) I’m considering totally re-thinking my big layout plan and using Tillig instead. 
 

Edited August 11 by Peachy
Grammar

[47606odin]

17 hours ago, Peachy said:

@Porfuera I’m interested to know how did you get on with these? 
Now that there seems like no further Streamline offerings on the immediate horizon from Peco, (certainly not until 2025) I’m considering totally re-thinking my big layout plan and using Tillig instead. 
 

2025 is only 3 1/2 months away…. 😬

[Peachy]

6 hours ago, 47606odin said:

2025 is only 3 1/2 months away…. 😬

Only in the real world…. 
In manufacturing la la land you need to add another 11months, 30 days, 23 hrs & 59 minutes to your 3.5 months and they’ll still be calling it “Autumn 25” 🫣

[Porfuera]

On 11/08/2024 at 07:47, Peachy said:

@Porfuera I’m interested to know how did you get on with these? 
Now that there seems like no further Streamline offerings on the immediate horizon from Peco, (certainly not until 2025) I’m considering totally re-thinking my big layout plan and using Tillig instead.

 

Hi Chris - apologies for the delay in replying but I've been out and about enjoying the summer weather - while it lasts!

 

I didn't actually get around to doing anything with the Tillig track and points (yet!) because the Peco small radius offerings came out shortly after I bought these IIRC. Plus I keep telling myself that a 3-way point would be nice...

 

However if you give them a try I don't think you'll be disappointed - although bear in mind that the points that I bought don't have locking springs and also the tie bars are quite loosely connected to the switch rails so a slow-moving point motor or a servo would probably be better than a solenoid-type like Seep as I mentioned above.

 

I didn't get around to posting anything about the flexi or the double slip that I bought at the same time so here goes... and thanks for the push to finally make me do so!

 

The Tillig flexi is a bit different to Peco's Code 55 flexi - for a start the flexi is listed on Tillig's website as being only 664mm long, so it is a bit shorter than Peco's. On top of that the sleeper bed moulding is not one continuous piece but it is made up from three separate pieces each being 220mm long. Here is a picture to try to show what I mean:

 

 

In the photo the top two pieces of track are Tillig flexi and from the top piece you can see that the sleeper bed is in three pieces. When these three pieces are pushed together (as in the second piece of track) then you can see that there is some extra track at the end. This is because the rails are actually about 695mm long rather than the 664mm given on Tillig's website so you get an extra 30mm or so of track. If you actually wanted to use the extra few cm of track (rather than just snipping it off and throwing it away) then you can buy spare pieces of the sleeper moulding, which can also be used for spare sleepers if required (that's the piece of sleeper moulding at the bottom of the photo).

 

The piece of track that's third from the top is a piece of Hornby TT8039 Standard Double Straight (332mm) for comparison with the Tillig track - I think it looks pretty similar.

 

The rails of the Tillig track move quite easily through the chairs in the sleeper moulding (unlike Peco's Code 55 flexi, which is quite 'stiff' and holds its shape) so the Tillig track doesn't hold a curve and always tries to straighten itself out. On the other hand the Tillig flexi is much easier to bend than the Peco flexi and I think it would be much easier to pin down if you were trying to form a curve. The Tillig flexi feels more like Peco's 009 flexi than Peco's Code 55 flexi. Neither of these are better or worse than the other, they're just different.

 

As for the double slip, here is a photo of the top side - this one is item number 83300 and is 166mm long. The trackwork looks quite 'heavy' and also it has plastic frogs (the longer double slip is item number 83391 and that one looks like it has cast aluminium frogs like the points but that one is 208mm long). Again it has no locking springs and the tiebars are a bit loose and 'wobble' slightly as with the points, but I imagine that isn't a problem:

 

 

The underside seems to have the rails electrically cross-bonded (similar to the points) and there aren't any wires for powering parts of the slip so I'm guessing that you only need two dropper wires (one to each of the outer rails) to power the whole thing and possibly insulated rail joiners aren't required (although to be fair I haven't read the instructions!):

 

 

Finally, I bought my Tillig track from Modellbahnshop-Lippe (I've no connection other than being a satisfied customer) because at the time the UK prices for Tillig track seemed to be a lot higher. Plus once you've registered on their website then German VAT (19%) gets deducted from their prices and as long as you don't spend over £135 (excluding postage) then UK VAT doesn't get applied when the parcel arrives in the UK (as far as I know this is still the case) which is a nice bonus and helps offset the €10 or €12 postage charges, as do the lower prices.

 

£135 probably won't buy you a lot of track but it would probably be enough for a small shunting layout that would give you an idea of whether or not you could get on with the track - or if you found you didn't like it you could probably sell the track on without incurring too much of a loss.

 

I hope that helps.

 

Cheers, Neil.

[Peachy]

Cheers Neil, lots of good information there, thank you 👍

[Chris Higgs]

On 12/08/2024 at 00:50, 47606odin said:

2025 is only 3 1/2 months away…. 😬

 

4 1/2 surely?

[47606odin]

7 hours ago, Chris Higgs said:

 

4 1/2 surely?

yep, my bad lol