Cavalex - New Class 60

[WCML100]

1 hour ago, Magna Junction said:

Sam's Trains has reviewed a pre-production sample of an Accurascale Class 60 and invited Cavalex to send him a sample for comparison.

 
Considering this is a high end model, sending it to Sams trains to review would probably end up with more misconceptions than understanding of what the cavalex offering is worth. It would miss a lot of key points for which this models market is aimed at…

[96701]

1 hour ago, WCML100 said:

 
Considering this is a high end model, sending it to Sams trains to review would probably end up with more misconceptions than understanding of what the cavalex offering is worth. It would miss a lot of key points for which this models market is aimed at…

I have to disagree with you there. Yes, he has a large following and reviews some rather esoteric models, but I found his review of the Accurascale 60 well balanced and does invite others with more knowledge of the Class 60 to comment on the model's accuracy.

[ruggedpeak]

6 minutes ago, 96701 said:

I have to disagree with you there. Yes, he has a large following and reviews some rather esoteric models, but I found his review of the Accurascale 60 well balanced and does invite others with more knowledge of the Class 60 to comment on the model's accuracy.

I have to disagree... there was nothing "balanced" about it and it was certainly not a proper review. It was pure marketing fluff, a soft preview of the model. Some of his narrative sounded like it was straight off the marketing 'key messages' sheet. Also a comedy moment or two where the chat didn't quite match what was on screen, but that's his schtick and it works.

 

It's not a criticism of him or AS (or indeed the model), he entertains and informs as best he can and they saw a great promo opportunity to reach their target market. But this was not a balanced piece nor a meaningful review, more an advertorial for the model.

 

 

[Bryn_Bach_Railway]

It’s worth noting that Sam’s video is not a review of the AS 60, but rather a preview of the upcoming model. The point of the video is to show all the included features and positive sides of the model. And Sam has done all they can to make that clear by emphasising the fact that it was Accurascale who approached them, and sent the model, as well as making it clear the model is a Pre-Production sample and changes can still be made. In fact Sam was quite clear in one of their other recent videos that they only review models they have bought themselves, so they best reflect that of what the average customer would experience.

 

Given the innovative ‘A.M.D’ valences and (in my opinion) superior packaging, Cavalex would definitely have some extra features that could be showcased should they take up Sam’s offer. I’m sure other features such as the previously discussed potential for the head light to mimic the real locos and turn off when in neutral (as might be seen when in a passing loop etc) could be highlighted as well if Cavalex wanted. 
 

Both Manufacturers are working on ‘High End’ models, but even so the basics are just as important and Sam very thoroughly covers them on every model. I think it’s worth me saying that I do follow Sam and watch a lot of their reviews, however I do also disagree with some of his points or comments so I’m in no way a ‘Fanboy’. Sam’s videos do tend to provide high quality images and videos of the models in question from near all angles both inside and out, and useful other information such as weight of the model and pulling power*. as such it allows anyone to watch the video and come to their own conclusions regardless of Sam’s opinion, which is the main reason I watch their content. I think it’s also rather safe to say that Sam does have one of, if not the largest following of model railway enthusiasts in the uk and as such would promote the model to a much larger audience.

 

 

*Granted pulling power is calculated via a formula and not actually tested, however if you have a few other locos that have also been tested. It does allow you to work out roughly how the model will perform on your layout compared to them.

[dj_crisp]

I watched his review purely because I haven't watched any of his stuff for ages. When a review starts with I don't know the class.... but the model has lots of excellent details.... I have to admit I tend to switch off and skip to the end. 

[LNERandBR]

Surly knowing the prototype of the model you are reviewing is a base requirement.

[bradfordbuffer]

49 minutes ago, LNERandBR said:

Surly knowing the prototype of the model you are reviewing is a base requirement.

Lack of knowledge of prototype was mind blowing! ' engine room had see through grills....you can see my fingers on the other side' (points at cooler group) last time I walked through a class 60 the big lump of metal prime mover was definitely in the middle where the can motor is located! 

The video done what it was produced for...airtime! Didn't some one once state 

I buy all my own stuff for review? 

 

[ERIC ALLTORQUE]

Whatever the outcome it does far more for Sam than any other party involved so its worked for him to get content, i doubt it would harm Cavalex to give him a pre production one to try,after all its his own personal point of view,by his own admission hes no expert on the class,did a tug ever have need to pull seventy coaches.........

[WCML100]

10 hours ago, dj_crisp said:

I watched his review purely because I haven't watched any of his stuff for ages. When a review starts with I don't know the class.... but the model has lots of excellent details.... I have to admit I tend to switch off and skip to the end. 

 

2 hours ago, LNERandBR said:

Surly knowing the prototype of the model you are reviewing is a base requirement.

Exactly why I said I do not think he is in a position to do a review / preview with merit on the Cavalex offering. If you do not have any knowledge of the prototype, how is it possible to review the model for anything other than its capabilities of ‘going round the track’ ? An informative review includes its running capabilities as a functioning model, but also it requires some sort of knowledge to give merit on the features of the actual prototype…

[njee20]

2 hours ago, bradfordbuffer said:

Lack of knowledge of prototype was mind blowing! ' engine room had see through grills....you can see my fingers on the other side' (points at cooler group) last time I walked through a class 60 the big lump of metal prime mover was definitely in the middle where the can motor is located! 

The video done what it was produced for...airtime! Didn't some one once state 

I buy all my own stuff for review? 

 

To defend Sam a bit on that one, that's somewhat nit-picky. There's knowing the prototype insofar as "this is a class 60, one hundred of them built late 80s, yada yada yada", and then there's that level of detail, which is of no real consequence.

It's not unreasonable that he hasn't walked through a class 60. I haven't.

[Gilbert]

1 hour ago, WCML100 said:

capabilities of ‘going round the track

I want my trains to run well and run slowly so while Sam is not everyone's cup of tea ( I'd prefer it if he reviewed some sound fitted models using DCC for example) his "reviews" are an easy way to see a model running etc.

I find that useful - the most accurate model in the world is no use to me if it does not run well - and as we know - not all do.

Smooth running is top of my personal "hierarchy of needs" for a new loco...

Chris

[bradfordbuffer]

53 minutes ago, njee20 said:

To defend Sam a bit on that one, that's somewhat nit-picky. There's knowing the prototype insofar as "this is a class 60, one hundred of them built late 80s, yada yada yada", and then there's that level of detail, which is of no real consequence.

It's not unreasonable that he hasn't walked through a class 60. I haven't.

In my defence in the 'see through bit of loco' definitely don't look like a engine....the fact that it has two upturned Dyson fans and lots of air rushing in....you don't really need to walk through to know what it is.

 

I wasn't been nit picky! But a bit of prior research and the reviewer could of stated....'the level of detail in the radiator compartment  is outstanding all details well represented'.....and you can see my fingers on the other side!

 

Nit picky! ....so a reviewer can't be reviewed...welcome to 2024🙄

[njee20]

I don't believe I said that you couldn't 'review the reviewer' if you so wish, merely that dismissing him as having a "mindblowing lack of knowledge" because he said "engine room" and not "radiator compartment" is (IMO) very nit-picky. I've seen far worse transgressions in virtually every publication (and indeed by Sam).

[bradfordbuffer]

1 hour ago, njee20 said:

I don't believe I said that you couldn't 'review the reviewer' if you so wish, merely that dismissing him as having a "mindblowing lack of knowledge" because he said "engine room" and not "radiator compartment" is (IMO) very nit-picky. I've seen far worse transgressions in virtually every publication (and indeed by Sam).

Fair enough.... everyone has there respected opinions...

[rob D2]

It’s the internet era.

It’s scary that people with little knowledge become saught after purely becuse they’ve managed to bag say, 100k subscribers, who know even less and are easily influenced - but you cannot ignore that marketing potential !

[rob D2]

PS,

Does it have sprung buffers, what was the crawl like , and how old were his slippers ?

[96701]

3 hours ago, rob D2 said:

PS,

Does it have sprung buffers, what was the crawl like , and how old were his slippers ?

Yes, exceptional and pre-historic.

[MidlandRed]

9 hours ago, rob D2 said:

PS,

Does it have sprung buffers, what was the crawl like , and how old were his slippers ?

He didn’t seem to notice the sprung buffers rotated through - hmmm 30-45 degrees as well!! However it is a pre-production sample (I don’t recall Sam having done one of these before, but rather than unboxing a purchased loco, this one clearly could have been fettled before he got it - whatever - it certainly didn’t appear to need running in anyway!!)
 

Sam also seems to think that all modern locos should have all wheel drive on bogies as well - and obviously hasn’t heard the viewpoint that on three axle diesels this can cause problems on inclines and curves. The loco did perform admirably on his layout though from what we could see. 

Edited July 1 by MidlandRed

[rob D2]

9 hours ago, MidlandRed said:

He didn’t seem to notice the sprung buffers rotated through - hmmm 30-45 degrees as well!! However it is a pre-production sample (I don’t recall Sam having done one of these before, but rather than unboxing a purchased loco, this one clearly could have been fettled before he got it - whatever - it certainly didn’t appear to need running in anyway!!)
 

Sam also seems to think that all modern locos should have all wheel drive on bogies as well - and obviously hasn’t heard the viewpoint that on three axle diesels this can cause problems on inclines and curves. The loco did perform admirably on his layout though from what we could see. 

- wrong thread -

sorry guys , wrong 60 

Edited July 2 by rob D2

[Roy Langridge]

And back to the Cavalex 60?…

 

Roy

[rob D2]

4 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

And back to the Cavalex 60?…

 

Roy

My bad .

I mistook the two topics 

I’m sure the cav 60 will be a great model too - I’d almost like to see Sam compare 

Edited July 2 by rob D2

[MidlandRed]

6 hours ago, rob D2 said:

My bad .

I mistook the two topics 

I’m sure the cav 60 will be a great model too - I’d almost like to see Sam compare 

Most of my comment indirectly referred to Sam’s offer to review a Cavalex item - and the fact that Sam mentioned as a major positive that Accurascale’s has all wheel drive, which he sees as essential - whereas Cavalex take a different view (and perfectly sensible on this). My concern would be he would, unreasonably, or more like through a lack of knowledge, mark the Cavalex down for this reason. 
 

I have no doubt the Cavalex model will be every bit as good, and possibly better than the very recently announced Accurascale version. If I was in the market for a class 60 I would be getting the Cavalex one for sure - rather like the SLW 24/25s, I think the Cavalex 56s are amongst the very best and most realistic looking RTR models out there. 

[phil-b259]

 

On 30/06/2024 at 16:00, 96701 said:

but I found his review of the Accurascale 60 well balanced

 

On 30/06/2024 at 16:27, ruggedpeak said:

I have to disagree... there was nothing "balanced" about it and it was certainly not a proper review. It was pure marketing fluff, a soft preview of the model. 

 

 

Its worth noting that Sam did NOT 'review' the loco - whatever else people try and pin on him Sam is astute enough to only officially review items he has purchased from retailers with his own funds.

 

However If manufacturers do decide to send him things to look at / 'showcase' on his You Tube Chanel he is not going to tell them to get lost.  When Hattons were passing their pre-production samples of their Genesis coaches around Sam was one of those who was sent some to have a look at and comment on for example.

 

The video of the 60 was therefore not a 'review' (and nor did Sam claim it to be).

[PaulRhB]

Cavalex sending him a model will just lead to a haulage test comparison as he doesn’t appreciate the details which is where the modeller end of the market is more interested than a difference of five wagons in haulage. As long as haulage is adequate for scale trains it doesn’t matter what the ultimate is. Detail accuracy is more of a deal breaker for one part of the market. ‘Most powerful’ regardless of its actual relevance appeals to another group 😁

The risk is Sam favouring AS simply because they gave him a model and reading more into that. Influencers are more part of the big hyperbole end of the market and while it demonstrably works in shifting boxes others rely on people interested in the detail actually comparing models. Until someone compares both production models it’s largely no more informative than the pics and clips we’ve already seen. 
I reckon both will be decent models but to be frank I’m getting a little tired of the marketing hyperbole and said what it reminded me of in the other thread which Fran politely replied to. I will wait and reserve judgement on that separately to the models. I still wish Cavalex would do their 91 as the Hornby one is still a bit of a mechanical disappointment. 

[ruggedpeak]

1 hour ago, phil-b259 said:

Its worth noting that Sam did NOT 'review' the loco -

 

I know, I already said that but without the BOLD and CAPITALS as I didn't feel the need to SHOUT 🤣 
 

However it is being widely reported and commented on various social media as a "review" and it could come across as a 'review' to those who weren't really paying attention to the intro. But on here we figured out its not a review a couple of days back, but thanks for the reminder.