Horse-drawn tramways and railways in preservation

[009 micro modeller]

Visiting and photographing the remains of the horse-worked Berkhamsted Gasworks Tramway the other day (see the ‘abandoned rails’ thread), and thinking about the number of other systems (industrial or passenger carrying) that have been primarily horse-worked (and not just really early in railway history - some continued into the 1950s/60s, or even later in some cases), I was thinking about how such operations have been represented in preservation.

 

Obviously a very well-known example is the Douglas Bay Tramway on the Isle of Man, and there’s also the Victor Harbor* Tram in Australia. But in the UK I’m struggling to think of many examples of heritage railways or tramways primarily using horse traction. Obviously Crich and Heaton Park have had visiting horse trams, and for heavy rail, several railways have had special events with horse shunting demonstrations (including narrow gauge - Corris has definitely done this at least once). But in terms of regular operations (as opposed to one-off or infrequent special events), I’m struggling to think of many examples. The only one that springs to mind is the very short 4ft gauge line that used to operate at Bradford Industrial Museum, using a replica horse tram (coincidentally this also features in the ‘abandoned rails’ thread, although I haven’t personally visited the museum yet). Are there (or have there been) any others?

It was some years ago now but at one point I did used to do a little bit of horse carriage driving, which I think is part of the reason why this topic interests me. It has also given me an understanding of some of the issues (animal welfare and hidden costs, among others) that there could be with something like this, but on the other hand these potential problems seem to have been dealt with pretty well on similar operations elsewhere.

 

*off-topic but yes, apparently this American-style spelling is correct, when used for this specific place.

Edited January 4, 2023 by 009 micro modeller

[New Haven Neil]

First tram of the year - eventually we re-opened.  Long story....

 

[sir douglas]

Beamish made a section of wooden rail wagonway next to the pockerley line several years ago as an excersice of experimental archeology by constructing and maintaining it, though i dont know if they even use it anymore

https://www.island-publishing.co.uk/jalbums/Beamish/Beamish horse waggonway/album/index.html

 

For a few days there was horse tram working at Middleton in Leeds in 2013 as the debut running of No107 after being restored by the LTHS, its now at Crich 

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Leeds_horse_tram_107_Crich_2014.JPG

 

 

[009 micro modeller]

50 minutes ago, New Haven Neil said:

First tram of the year - eventually we re-opened.  Long story....

 

But that’s the point - if something like this can work on the IoM (which isn’t strictly speaking in the UK) why not in the UK itself?

 

18 minutes ago, sir douglas said:

Beamish made a section of wooden rail wagonway next to the pockerley line several years ago as an excersice of experimental archeology by constructing and maintaining it, though i dont know if they even use it anymore

https://www.island-publishing.co.uk/jalbums/Beamish/Beamish horse waggonway/album/index.html

 

For a few days there was horse tram working at Middleton in Leeds in 2013 as the debut running of No107 after being restored by the LTHS, its now at Crich 

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Leeds_horse_tram_107_Crich_2014.JPG

 

 

The Beamish photos look interesting - I don’t think I’ve heard of this particular bit of it before despite reading a lot of the Beamish blog previously. I knew about Leeds 107 and it’s a beautiful restoration as well. I think though that both of those examples fall into the ‘one-off/infrequent demonstration’ category - not a regular heritage service that people can ride on like Douglas Bay.

 

After my original post I was reminded of the Moseley Railway Trust (now the operators of Apedale Valley Light Railway) which started off at a school in Cheshire with a short line that was operated with a horse tram built onto an old wagon chassis. I’m not sure how frequently this was used though or whether they ever really planned to continue horse haulage long term.

[longchap]

13 hours ago, New Haven Neil said:

First tram of the year - eventually we re-opened.  Long story....

 

 

Now this lovely scene takes me back over 60 years to happy holidays on the Isle of Man, where we nicked sugar lumps from our bayside Douglas hotel to feed the horses. 

 

Thank you for stirring such wonderful memories and I am so pleased to know that such important heritage activity still exists and truly hope it can continue for generations to come.

 

Edited January 5, 2023 by longchap

[Chris116]

A couple of years before Covid struck I went to Crich and rode on a horse tram. That year it was running about three days a month and the dates were all advertised on their website. It was a very enjoyable ride and one I would happily do again.

[New Haven Neil]

3 hours ago, longchap said:

 

Now this lovely scene takes me back over 60 years to happy holidays on the Isle of Man, where we nicked sugar lumps from our bayside Douglas hotel to feed the horses. 

 

Thank you for stirring such wonderful memories and I am so pleased to know that such important heritage activity still exists and truly hope it can continue for generations to come.

 

 

The horse tramway is a political hot potato, there is a lot of hot air blown because of it.  Despite Tynwald (our parliament) approving monies to rebuild the whole thing, only half of it (to the War Memorial) has been replaced after the 3 1/2 year prom rebuild programme.  The second half to the ferry terminal is to be single track and to one side of the road, behind the walkways  - the land is just left full of weeds, and a lot of tramway rails ha been used to relay parts of the MER climbing out of Douglas.

 

The detractors - who complain vociferously - say the cost which is met by Douglas Borough Corporation is a waste of their - ie taxpayers - money, without recognising the fact it is a loss-leader to bring in visitors.  The railways have done well with enthusiast footfall this last few years due to enlightened (and also unpopular!) management.  You can't win.  I could say a lot more but as Mrs NHN works there, I am not allowed.

[AMJ]

I know the folks at Heaton Park in Manchester were talking before C19 about having regular horse days but it will be like when Leeds 107 was run that you need staff and animals that are capable of operating the vehicle.

[009 micro modeller]

1 hour ago, AMJ said:

I know the folks at Heaton Park in Manchester were talking before C19 about having regular horse days but it will be like when Leeds 107 was run that you need staff and animals that are capable of operating the vehicle.

I think this probably gets to the crux of it, which is that for a regular operation you either need the tram/rail operator to own and look after the horse(s) themselves (or, perhaps in the case of a smaller volunteer-run operation, have a very good relationship with someone who does), or hire them, which I suspect is often too expensive to do frequently, once you factor in the transport costs, and the wages of the person handling and looking after the horse (unless they’re attending as a volunteer). I gather that Douglas and Victor Harbor also use multiple horses on each day, not just to allow a more frequent service but also to avoid making them work too hard (and rightly so - if I thought that they weren’t taking the animal welfare side of things seriously I would be very unhappy about the whole thing).
 

There’s also a need to have people with a fairly specific crossover of skills and interests (both horse and tram/railway). In theory not everyone has to be interested or skilled in every single aspect of the operation, but you would need at least a few people who are enthusiastic about the overall idea. There are at least two UK-based horse-drawn heritage narrowboat operations (Llangollen and Kennet), although possibly these are a bit more commercial. But it does suggest that a similar tram or rail-based operation could work…

[New Haven Neil]

Yes indeed, Douglas horse do 6 trips (its not far and dead level, with roller bearing trams) and they can count - the last run they want to gallop!  There are several used through the day, then of an evening they go from the stables on the prom back to fields.  They are WELL looked after.

[New Haven Neil]

As an addendum - once the tram is rolling, they take no pull to keep rolling.

 

This was ably demonstrated one night during TT in the 7 edit 80's when a load of bikers found one unsecurced and went for a run down the prom, pushing it off.  PC Plod, who wasn't really thinking, pulled his Ford Escort panda car across in front of it to make them stop.....except they ran away and left it rolling. Oh dear.  PC Plod was a laughing stock for years - I used to work with him!

Edited January 5, 2023 by New Haven Neil

[Johann Marsbar]

The newly restored Leeds horse tram ran at the Middleton Railway back in 2013......

 

 

We've only got a plastic horse, so ours doesn't go very far.............

 

[009 micro modeller]

Just now, Johann Marsbar said:

We've only got a plastic horse, so ours doesn't go very far.............

 

Where is this? Looks interesting.

[Johann Marsbar]

8 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

Where is this? Looks interesting.

 

Ipswich Transport Museum.  

The car has an interesting history, having been purchased as a single decker by Bath Tramways on 1880, it then went to Bradford where it was used as a steam tram trailer by the Bradford & Shelf Tramways operation - being converted to a double decker in the meantime. It finished up in Cambridge, where it was used until the system closed in 1914. It then became a shed and we obtained the remains in the early 2000's.   It's identical to ones used in Ipswich from 1880-1902, though ours were 3'6" gauge rather than 4'0".  It was restored over the last 10 years to its Cambridge condition.

This is what we had to start with once the bodywork was being carefully stripped down to find the livery/advert details......

 

[Danemouth]

You and your friends are to be congratulated on a superb restoration. 😀😀😀

 

Dave

[Johann Marsbar]

6 minutes ago, Danemouth said:

You and your friends are to be congratulated on a superb restoration. 😀😀😀

 

Dave

 

Well off topic, but the small group who restored it (6 in number) did a similar job on our ICT Brush built electric car of 1904 before moving on to the horse tram.......

 

 

The remaining 5 from the group (+ me joining them) have now moved on to our 1930 ICT Ransomes single decker trolleybus, which will eventually be restored to operational condition.

[sir douglas]

one of the members of the leeds 107 restoration is here on rmweb, Jamie92208

[Johann Marsbar]

10 hours ago, sir douglas said:

one of the members of the leeds 107 restoration is here on rmweb, Jamie92208

 

Yes, our Group liased with the Leeds Group during the rebuilding of the Cambridge car and they were heavilly involved in the manufacture of the new truck and running gear for ours.

[009 micro modeller]

In Germany there’s this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Döbeln_Tramway

 

And this is an interesting thread although I don’t think anything ever came of it: https://www.national-preservation.com/threads/bristol-dramway-reopening.677942/page-2

 

I also definitely remember reading somewhere about a private horse-drawn railway, modern era and newly built (not a restoration of an old line) but subsequently abandoned, at a site in Kent (possibly on a country estate), but now can’t find any details of it.

[Johann Marsbar]

The remaining 1.6km length of the metre gauge Inselbahn Spiekeroog is worked as a horse-drawn line, as seen in these photos from an ADL Tour in 2004....

 

 

 

From memory, the vehicle originated from the Stuttgart fleet.

[009 micro modeller]

31 minutes ago, Johann Marsbar said:

The remaining 1.6km length of the metre gauge Inselbahn Spiekeroog is worked as a horse-drawn line, as seen in these photos from an ADL Tour in 2004....

 

 

 

From memory, the vehicle originated from the Stuttgart fleet.

I had heard of that one - I can’t remember if there was a specific reason why the full route is not used. Presumably the low weight of the horse trams (compared to the previous stock) is to their advantage in terms of track maintenance etc. I wonder if something similar would work on a disused railway line in the UK? I’m thinking especially of locations where useable track is left from a previous operation but it isn’t really practical to provide all of the facilities needed for a conventional heritage railway.