Hornby 2023 - Bluetooth decoders and control system

[Bob83a]

Hornby have the Next-18 TXS decoders discounted at 49.99 and Rails have them at 39.50

 

Possibly not selling well, so does size matter.

[ColinB]

4 minutes ago, Bob83a said:

Hornby have the Next-18 TXS decoders discounted at 49.99 and Rails have them at 39.50

 

Possibly not selling well, so does size matter.

Yes it does, they are too big to fit any other models.

[HExpressD]

2 minutes ago, ColinB said:

Yes it does, they are too big to fit any other models.

Not quite correct. They don't fit in some Next18 fitted models but do fit in a majority even though the first version ones are larger than the NEM Next18 specification 

[ColinB]

13 minutes ago, HExpressD said:

Not quite correct. They don't fit in some Next18 fitted models but do fit in a majority even though the first version ones are larger than the NEM Next18 specification 

Well definitely not in most of mine, but yes if it is a Hornby it fits. There must be an issue for there to be such a huge discount, they are not discounting the others by such a large amount. Of course if you get the Dremel out, everything fits.

[Bob83a]

It could be that they are making room for a new version with a reduction in size but not in RRP.

[ColinB]

5 minutes ago, Bob83a said:

It could be that they are making room for a new version with a reduction in size but not in RRP.

That is a good point, you may well be right. There again I gather the present size fits all the Hornby TT120 models which is what they developed it for. I know I looked at it for my Pacer but the space was too small, but then that is an EFE/Bachmann model. Trouble is for non Hornby modern image, they are limited on their lighting functions.

[JSpencer]

Locomotion is supposedly designed with a next18 TXS sound decoder in mind. My bet is that this will be in the tender, chip with speaker.

 

However will Locomotion be able to take the existing next18 TXS sound decoder?

 

Anyway, I've ordered a couple at these reduced prices to see what potential locos in my fleet can take them. And in the worst case, a 21pin to next18 convertor can be used.

In general, I actually like Next18 decoders, especially on small locos. Equally I've not really seen any advantage is switching from 21pin to Plux22. I'd much rather newer models needing bigger decoders just stay with 21pin allowing me the choice of using a new chip or reusing an old one.

(I get that I can use Plux16 etc - which I also don't have - within a Plux22 holder, but this all seems like an afterthought over the standard 21 pin chip that is now so well established within most peoples fleets). 

[ColinB]

34 minutes ago, JSpencer said:

Locomotion is supposedly designed with a next18 TXS sound decoder in mind. My bet is that this will be in the tender, chip with speaker.

 

However will Locomotion be able to take the existing next18 TXS sound decoder?

 

Anyway, I've ordered a couple at these reduced prices to see what potential locos in my fleet can take them. And in the worst case, a 21pin to next18 convertor can be used.

In general, I actually like Next18 decoders, especially on small locos. Equally I've not really seen any advantage is switching from 21pin to Plux22. I'd much rather newer models needing bigger decoders just stay with 21pin allowing me the choice of using a new chip or reusing an old one.

(I get that I can use Plux16 etc - which I also don't have - within a Plux22 holder, but this all seems like an afterthought over the standard 21 pin chip that is now so well established within most peoples fleets). 

Yes I have wondered about that Plux22, I bought my first loco with it in. I am waiting for someone to tell me its advantages over 21 pin. 

[WIMorrison]

Plux 12, 16 & 22 are a single agreed standard reducing complexity for manufacturers and modellers alike. It is largely adopted by European manufacturers now.

[WIMorrison]

Plux 12, 16 & 22 are a single agreed standard reducing complexity for manufacturers and modellers alike. It is largely adopted by European manufacturers now.

 

[E100]

10 minutes ago, ColinB said:

Yes I have wondered about that Plux22, I bought my first loco with it in. I am waiting for someone to tell me its advantages over 21 pin. 

 

Without wanting to completely derail the topic. In theory:

• The pins on the decoder means that if one snaps your not looking at a motherboard replacement - though how many times has someone manged that with a 21MTC?
• You can use a Plux 8/12/16 decoder in a Plux 22 socket if you only need a few basic functions and vice versa depending on space. See picture below - that being said this only works in practice if all standards are frequently used. In the UK market it's largely just Plux 22 currently to the best of my knowledge.

• I might be wrong but I think the standards around motor load / function load are a bit more strict meaning that in general they should be a bit more compatible than the way the 21MTC standard(s) have gone.

So basically in theory if everyone adopted them and ran with all of them then it could be great but with 21MTC and now Next18 so entrenched, in the UK at least, it only really served to fragment things when really, whilst it has the potential to help, in reality it may not. One could cynically argue the reason to include it on new models is to prevent the reuse of decoders from previous gen e.g. Bachmann last gen vs latest 37/47 could have meant you purchased just DCC ready and swapped the decoders.

 

They are more widely adopted aboard in mainland Europe but whether they become mainstream over here is subject to debate. Latest I heard was ESU are bringing a new small format E24 decoder to market which whilst I'm sure brings more functionality doesn't help with the fragmentation issue. Similarly for the size I do believe that Next18 can offer more functionality that the equivalent Plux example hence the popularity.

 

The fact that Hornby elected to move from NEM 651/652 to Next 18/21MTC is a real shame for Plux adoption as that will surely now remain entrenched into the 2030's. Furthermore Accurascale and Cavalex have gone down the 21 pin route and I cannot see that changing for a while either. Therefore the eutopia that Plux promises is a fair way off and by that point that these are looking to replace 21MTC I expect there to be a new kid on the block since the base functionality is not much different.

[meatloaf]

 Ive tried the next 18 HM7000 in a plux 22 class 20 and class 47 using the plux16 adaptor.

 

Both work well, but youll need to remove the fan on the class 20 to get the body back on and the 47 needs the small sugarcube removing.

[scottrains29]

31 minutes ago, meatloaf said:

 Ive tried the next 18 HM7000 in a plux 22 class 20 and class 47 using the plux16 adaptor.

 

Both work well, but youll need to remove the fan on the class 20 to get the body back on and the 47 needs the small sugarcube removing.

Thanks, I was planning on doing just that, for both a Bachmann DRS 20 and 47.

These next18 sound decoders might work out around £30 with the current double Hobby Reward points. 

[ColinB]

53 minutes ago, E100 said:

 

Without wanting to completely derail the topic. In theory:

• The pins on the decoder means that if one snaps your not looking at a motherboard replacement - though how many times has someone manged that with a 21MTC?
• You can use a Plux 8/12/16 decoder in a Plux 22 socket if you only need a few basic functions and vice versa depending on space. See picture below - that being said this only works in practice if all standards are frequently used. In the UK market it's largely just Plux 22 currently to the best of my knowledge.

• I might be wrong but I think the standards around motor load / function load are a bit more strict meaning that in general they should be a bit more compatible than the way the 21MTC standard(s) have gone.

So basically in theory if everyone adopted them and ran with all of them then it could be great but with 21MTC and now Next18 so entrenched, in the UK at least, it only really served to fragment things when really, whilst it has the potential to help, in reality it may not. One could cynically argue the reason to include it on new models is to prevent the reuse of decoders from previous gen e.g. Bachmann last gen vs latest 37/47 could have meant you purchased just DCC ready and swapped the decoders.

 

They are more widely adopted aboard in mainland Europe but whether they become mainstream over here is subject to debate. Latest I heard was ESU are bringing a new small format E24 decoder to market which whilst I'm sure brings more functionality doesn't help with the fragmentation issue. Similarly for the size I do believe that Next18 can offer more functionality that the equivalent Plux example hence the popularity.

 

The fact that Hornby elected to move from NEM 651/652 to Next 18/21MTC is a real shame for Plux adoption as that will surely now remain entrenched into the 2030's. Furthermore Accurascale and Cavalex have gone down the 21 pin route and I cannot see that changing for a while either. Therefore the eutopia that Plux promises is a fair way off and by that point that these are looking to replace 21MTC I expect there to be a new kid on the block since the base functionality is not much different.

Great, thank you for the explanation. It explains a lot. Sometimes it is pretty easy to bend the pins on a 21 pin socket if you don't pull it off square, so they could easily break.