Hornby 2023 - Bluetooth decoders and control system

[Pmorgancym]

On 25/04/2023 at 15:01, RAF96 said:

See here https://support.Hornby.com/hc/en-gb/articles/8564947931548-HM7000-HM-DCC-Compatibility

Also linked to from the HM DCC (7000) forum with an open post for any associated queries.

Better than nothing, but 'Please be advised that after extensive research and testing, the use of DC Analogue controllers'  Does raise the question of how much testing of this feature was done prior to release

[RAF96]

20 minutes ago, Pmorgancym said:

Better than nothing, but 'Please be advised that after extensive research and testing, the use of DC Analogue controllers'  Does raise the question of how much testing of this feature was done prior to release

Does it even matter - that is all in the wind now. You have new guidance to go by instead.

[Pmorgancym]

1 hour ago, RAF96 said:

Does it even matter - that is all in the wind now. You have new guidance to go by instead.

I'll take that as none.

[HExpressD]

13 hours ago, Pmorgancym said:

I'll take that as none.

Yes, because that seems likely doesn't it? A company doing no testing of a new range of products. Perhaps time to give it a rest?

[Chrisr40]

21 hours ago, D3489gibson said:

So, popped into the visitor centre on my way back from Rye, bit out of the way granted, but free rail travel helps, and picked up another two decoders and a powerbank. Noticed this though infront of the decoders... presumably they'd be using the purchasers login so that it's registered to them? Either way, I can do it myself so didn't plan on spending a tenner extra to get preloaded sounds...

 

 

Nathan 

Glad to see this is service is available, hopefully some distributors  will offer it too.

[D3489gibson]

Two more added to the fold. Class 31, and J27(used B12 sounds) 

 

 

31 has had the speaker placed on the non fan end just under the PCB, and the J27 in its own dedicated speaker enclosure under the weigh section.

 

Nathan...

[Bulleidboy100]

I did not know that Hornby TXS decoders came with Magnadhesion😅 The J27 looks good - a neat installation - room for a power pack?

Edited April 27, 2023 by Bulleidboy100

[Ron Ron Ron]

On 26/04/2023 at 12:57, RAF96 said:

Nowhere does it say these decoders meet the full standard. What is written on the box is that DCC operation conforms to the standard, not that fit or form does.…..

I accept and understand the reasons for the oversize Next18 TXS decoder (aerial accommodation and component supply issues), however in response…. Nowhere does it say these decoders don’t meet the standards implicit in being  sold as a Next18 decoder.

This should be made clear.

On the last point, the fit and form is a key part of that standard.

It shouldn’t be optional.

Purchasers of these decoders should expect them to fit into any loco that presents a Next18 connection, just as any RTR manufacturer fitting this format of connector, should provide the space for the decoder required by the standard.

That is the whole point of Next18

In mitigation, Hornby should clearly indicate and issue a warning that the decoder doesn’t meet the size criteria.

 

 

.

[E100]

They really should have released the others and then marketed this generation Next-18 decoder as TT:120 only.
 

IIRC the only other other Next-18 loco they currently produce is Lion/Tiger. It’s therefore not a big issue as far as their products are concerned but feels slightly odd little thought was given to the world outside the Hornby ecosystem but that feels like that can often be the Hornby way.

 

It obviously doesn’t meet the standard unlike many other decoders and therefore the way in which it is marketed is somewhat questionable as it is not like for like.

[JSpencer]

10 minutes ago, E100 said:

They really should have released the others and then marketed this generation Next-18 decoder as TT:120 only.
 

IIRC the only other other Next-18 loco they currently produce is Lion/Tiger. It’s therefore not a big issue as far as their products are concerned but feels slightly odd little thought was given to the world outside the Hornby ecosystem but that feels like that can often be the Hornby way.

 

It obviously doesn’t meet the standard unlike many other decoders and therefore the way in which it is marketed is somewhat questionable as it is not like for like.

 

I think the main point that is missed is that this product has tons of growth within which to evolve. The first releases have been - perfectly normal - Hornby centric, meaning fits Hornby locos with sounds that apply to Hornby locos and a list of Hornby compatible power supplies.

Yeah the initial marketing was probably too enthusiastic.

For example, I was expecting to run some sound fitted locos off a DC supply which clearly now has some issues. But we are an adaptable market, so I'll run them off a DCC supply instead. Still got the option of controlling from the phone or the DCC controller. In other words, we as a community can adapt.

 

Once it is cracked for Hornby centric products, they will doubtless turn more attention to making it compatible everywhere else.

 

Edited April 27, 2023 by JSpencer

[Ron Ron Ron]

5 minutes ago, JSpencer said:

……..Once it is cracked for Hornby centric products, they will doubtless turn more attention to making it compatible everywhere else.

 

It is very early days.

I thought it encouraging that in the other day’s “Beyond the Buffers” video, George Waller indicated there’s an intention of continuously rolling out sound profiles, month on month, year on year.

That suggests to me that sound files for locos not produced by Hornby, are very likely.

Good news indeed if it turns out to be the case.

 

What didn’t enthuse me, was the “blue sky” suggestions he gave as examples, which were less model railway orientated and more gimmicky.

Get the basics and advanced features right first.

 

.

[JSpencer]

3 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

It is very early days.

I thought it encouraging that in the other day’s “Beyond the Buffers” video, George Waller indicated there’s an intention of continuously rolling out sound profiles, month on month, year on year.

That suggests to me that sound files for locos not produced by Hornby, are very likely.

Good news indeed if it turns out to be the case.

 

What didn’t enthuse me, was the “blue sky” suggestions he gave as examples, which were less model railway orientated and more gimmicky.

Get the basics and advanced features right first.

 

.

 

For the price, Hornby Gimmicks to be expected. If they were full fat sound standards..... 

 

I see TXS and TTS a means to expand the DCC fleet cheaply without using non sound chips. I save fall fat sound for key models (although 60%+ of my sound fitted fleet are full fat DCC sound).

 

 

[Buhar]

1 hour ago, JSpencer said:

I see TXS and TTS a means to expand the DCC fleet cheaply without using non sound chips. I save fall fat sound for key models (although 60%+ of my sound fitted fleet are full fat DCC sound).

In terms of a straight DCC decoder they're pretty expensive eg in comparison with Zimo.  I see them as a cheap way to play with sound in a few locos.  Given that steam sounds aren't that great in any decoder I've heard in 4mm, less than "full-fat" is probably good enough.

 

Alan

[NIK]

36 minutes ago, Buhar said:

In terms of a straight DCC decoder they're pretty expensive eg in comparison with Zimo.  I see them as a cheap way to play with sound in a few locos.  Given that steam sounds aren't that great in any decoder I've heard in 4mm, less than "full-fat" is probably good enough.

 

Alan

Hi,

 

Reportedly the Zimo budget range of non sound decoders are to be discontinued. The non sound Zimo decoders I could find in stock were £36 to £50. The non sound Hornby HM7000 decoders are for pre order at £29 to £40.

 

Regards

 

Nik

[D3489gibson]

5 hours ago, Bulleidboy100 said:

I did not know that Hornby TXS decoders came with Magnadhesion😅 The J27 looks good - a neat installation - room for a power pack?

 

Unfortunately not! The tender is too shallow for the power pack to be fitted inside. Same with the 31, too little space between the top of the PCb and the bodyshell. 

 

As for the magnadhesion, not idea why the uploader keeps putting my photos 180° out of orientation 🙄 

 

Nathan...

[newbryford]

2 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

It is very early days.

I thought it encouraging that in the other day’s “Beyond the Buffers” video, George Waller indicated there’s an intention of continuously rolling out sound profiles, month on month, year on year.

That suggests to me that sound files for locos not produced by Hornby, are very likely.

Good news indeed if it turns out to be the case.

 

.

 

I wonder if some of the driver for this was the (or so it seemed to me), the quantity of TTS decoders that found their way into Bachmann  37s [*] and 66s, and also in my case , Hattons 66s as well?

.

[*]

My first TTS decoder was fitted into a Vitrains 37 and I was asked a few times which sound file it was and not being believed that it was a TTS decoder and swapping the supplied Hornby speaker out in all cases above.

[Izzy]

8 hours ago, NIK said:

Hi,

 

Reportedly the Zimo budget range of non sound decoders are to be discontinued. The non sound Zimo decoders I could find in stock were £36 to £50. The non sound Hornby HM7000 decoders are for pre order at £29 to £40.

 

Regards

 

Nik

If they are that would be a shame, but perhaps not unexpected given the current general component shortage. I remember paying £35-40 for Lenz decoders a decade or more ago. The MX600’s are still being produced at present in small batches at £25. TBH unless the HM7000’s motor control improves an awful lot they will IMHO still be expensive compared to Zimo. My diesel TTS are great for what I paid for them, when they suit the particular motor and gearing the loco has, the couple of steam I tried a waste of money given the lack of wheel synchronisation. My ‘full-fat’ steam on Zimo’s I find worth the money despite the far greater cost. Each to their own I suppose for I have zero interest in Bluetooth etc.

 

Full marks to Hornby for trying to give specifically Hornby users these decoders but given how the previous attempts  at Bluetooth have gone I’m not sure they will have quite the impact others believe. But I do expect more retailers to offer pre-sound loaded decoders to those who don’t what the bother/ haven’t the equipment to set them up themselves. From that perspective of stock management, just one type of chip of each socket fitting to stock, must be a big advantage both to Hornby and their retailers.

 

Bob

[RedgateModels]

8 hours ago, NIK said:

Hi,

 

Reportedly the Zimo budget range of non sound decoders are to be discontinued. The non sound Zimo decoders I could find in stock were £36 to £50. The non sound Hornby HM7000 decoders are for pre order at £29 to £40.

 

Regards

 

Nik

 

Good job I have 13 MX600R's in stock then 😉

[JSpencer]

8 hours ago, newbryford said:

 

I wonder if some of the driver for this was the (or so it seemed to me), the quantity of TTS decoders that found their way into Bachmann  37s [*] and 66s, and also in my case , Hattons 66s as well?

.

[*]

My first TTS decoder was fitted into a Vitrains 37 and I was asked a few times which sound file it was and not being believed that it was a TTS decoder and swapping the supplied Hornby speaker out in all cases above.

 

I think Bachmann missed a trick (for now at least) in giving their latest 37 and 47 a 22 pin decoder socket. With 21 pin, more sales could be had by people buying it to fit one of these TXS decoders.... or going for the throaty excellent accurascale one.

 

[WIMorrison]

9 hours ago, NIK said:

Hi,

 

Reportedly the Zimo budget range of non sound decoders are to be discontinued. The non sound Zimo decoders I could find in stock were £36 to £50. The non sound Hornby HM7000 decoders are for pre order at £29 to £40.

 

Regards

 

Nik

 

I wonder if you are confused by the move announced by Zimo about 18 months ago to cease production of the MX series decoder and start making MS and MN decoders? They have not announced prices on the MN series yet, however I would expect that they would carry a premium on the price for a period until supplies are consistent.

 

The MS decoders will be purely sound decoders (clue in the S perhaps 😄) and the N will be non-sound (another clue?).  I you haven't seen the newsletter you can see details about the MN Series here . 

[NIK]

Hi,

 

I hope I have got confused.

 

I took the news on the Zimo website about MN decoders replacing MX decoders except in a few cases for technical reasons and that 'In contrast to the non-sound decoders of all other manufacturers, and also in contrast to the previous MX non-sound decoders from ZIMO itself, the MN decoders are NOT trimmed for the lowest possible cost, but for full functional compliance with the sound decoders of the same generation, the MS sound decoders.' meant that the budget range of MX decoders were largely being withdrawn EDIT and replaced by more expensive types END EDIT.

 

I will go away and look for more detail. Maybe once chipaggedon is over the prices of the budget range will go back down a bit.

 

Regards

 

Nick

Edited April 28, 2023 by NIK

[RAF96]

Tim Mulhall of Hornby made a statement on the Hornby International forum that they will be rolling out sound profiles sooner rather than in years for international loco types. Previously sound for these locos was third party supply.

Edited April 28, 2023 by RAF96

[maico]

23 hours ago, Buhar said:

In terms of a straight DCC decoder they're pretty expensive eg in comparison with Zimo.  I see them as a cheap way to play with sound in a few locos.  Given that steam sounds aren't that great in any decoder I've heard in 4mm, less than "full-fat" is probably good enough.

 

Alan

 

Last December I bought some ESU Lokpilot Basic V5 in 8 and 21 pin for only 21 and 22 euros each from German dealer.

The PluX22 is a bit more expensive and ESU sound decoders much more expensive.

[Ron Ron Ron]

On 27/04/2023 at 22:44, Buhar said:

In terms of a straight DCC decoder they're pretty expensive eg in comparison with Zimo……….

You are paying around £15 extra for the BlueTooth capability, on both the TXS sound and yet to be released, non-sound versions.

TXS sound adds another £25 to the cost.

 

There are 2 ways of looking at it.

If you don’t use those 2 facilities, then that’s unnecessary extra cost.

On the other hand, you can accept you have purchased these facilities at extra cost, whether or not you use them. 
In which case, the straight DCC decoder aspect, prices these decoders at around £20 to £25 (depending on pin arrangement).

 

 

 

.

Edited April 29, 2023 by Ron Ron Ron

[JSpencer]

Has anyone tried these in Bachmann 7Fs yet? Particulary G2A and SDJR 7F?

 

I have and, aside from faff of trying to convince the app that the sound profiles were installed (I used 4F ones and it took repeated attempts to install them), it seems that these 21pins TXS chips cannot handle big Bachmann tender engines.

 

Both models are fitted with the power packs (and I tried running without as well). 

Under blue tooth, Sounds work fine when stationary, but they cut out as soon as the motor kicks in before coming back on again. The loco will then advance a 1/4 of an inch then stop, nothing, no sound, all dead. Bluetooth disconnects as well.

It comes back about 30 seconds later, picks up from where it left off, advances another 1/4 inch and dies....

 

In the case of the SDJR 7F, that developed a short somewhere (more evident when the power pack is connected).

I'll try under DCC control next but am starting to wonder if the "compatibility list" is going to end up covering locos as well as controllers...

 

Edit Update: Under DCC, a completely different story. The G2A performed perfectly after reading the chip, changing the address and testing all the functions on the controller. Back to bluetooth, she was transformed there too! Note: the power pack has a life of about 1.5 seconds max.

Next up the SDJR 7F.

 

Edited April 29, 2023 by JSpencer