Hornby’s Britannia - its evolution ……….

[papagolfjuliet]

On 20/12/2022 at 23:17, Steamport Southport said:

Locomotives built for the LMR and ScR didn't. The routes they worked on the LMR and ScR were all left hand drive.

 

It was down to the GWR having the signals on the wrong side for the drivers to see, something that also applied to some parts of the Eastern Region. The handrails obscured the view.

 

 

...resulting, of course, in the Milton crash.

[simmo009]

Love me a Brit. My first 'proper' loco was Oliver Cromwell in about 1975. Still running smoothly. This particular model had a permanent connection between the loco and tender, with pick up from the main driving wheels. So, with no return through the tender chassis, it came with 6 traction tyres on the tender. Paired with the original Ringfield mechanism, it's a heck of a puller. Had at least 24 Mk1's hanging off the back, could have handled more but we ran out of carriages and track length. Soon to be re-tested on a bigger layout. I have 6 other later Britannia models, all are great, but dear Oliver will always be my favourite. 

[The Johnster]

I also love me a Brit, not suitable for Cwmdimbath but handsome machines.  I am lucky to be able to remember the grand opera of a clean Canton Brit struggling to get to grips, literally, with the 14-coach Red Dragon out of P2 at Cardiff General.  Volcanic! 

 

The handrail problem came to light after 70026 Polar Star's accident at Milton, near Didcot, in December 1955.  The driver misread a cleared main line signal for his own despite being on a parallel relief line and took the train through a set of open trap points at the end of it; the loco rolled down an embankment and there were unfortunately several deaths as well as injuries.  I have never really fully believed that the handrails were a contributary cause, as the very similar 9Fs were used on the WR for some time without any such issue becoming apparent, but the boilers are slightly shorter on 9Fs, and I think the fireboxes may be narrower which means that the spectacle plate windows are wider, so that may make a difference to the angle at which a left hand seated driver views signals on the right hand side of the track. 

 

The ER locos were given smoke deflectors with LMR-style circular handholds with rails diagonally positioned in them, like those on Patriot/Royal Scot/Coronations as they went through works.  The WR locos were given a type with rectangular cutouts that had brass beading around the rims.  Not all the WR locos were given these before they were xfer to LMR in 1960 after Kings were allox Canton, 70021 Morning Star for example retaining the original handrails.  I am not sure of which ER locos were given modified smoked deflectors, but I think it was all of them, or the dates that any of them on either region received them.  Personally, I thought the cutout handholds with brass beading looked very smart polished up on Canton Brits.  Once given modified smoke deflectors, the locos carried them until they were withdrawn, and the preserved Britannia has had the handrails restored, presumably from a donor locomotive.  TTBOMK, Oliver Cromwell retains it's LMR pattern deflectors, the condition in which it worked the 15 guinea special.

 

The 1975 Iron Duke version for mail order catalogue train sets shows up on eBay occasionally; it had no Walchearts valve gear or smoke deflectors and stick-on red-backed nameplates on the side of the smokebox.  AFAIK, it was never released for general sale.  The prototype is well-known as the understudy to William Shakespeare at Stewart's Lane for the Golden Arrow.  It was originally allox to Old Oak Common as the first of the WR's batch, but the WR wanted more Castles and had been overruled by Marylebone, and as the loco went in to traffic at the same time as the Southern was having problems with the MNs and was short of locos, the WR 'lent' Iron Duke to Stewart's Lane and never asked for it back.

 

The Brits were initially unpopular on the WR (a Laira driver wrote to the Thunderer complaining about them, and questions were asked in The House), and the broad gauge names were an attempt to get them accepted, but Newport's Divisional Loco Manager realised that a free-steaming 2-cylinder pacific with 6'2" wheels would be a suitable horse for the 14-coach South Wales expresses, with a long uphill slog at about 45mph from the bottom of the Severn Tunnel to Badminton followed by an 80+mph run into Paddington, and the entire WR allocation, 70015-29, was xfer to Canton.  They also did good work with heavy trains on the hilly North to West route at this shed.  Canton had been asking for Kings for many years but those engines were not permitted west of Stoke Gifford on the South Wales trains until 1960, when, with Kings being cascaded by Warships from the Bristol and West of England trains, Canton's request was finally met and the Brits were xfer to the LMR, where they remained until withdrawal.

[PhilH]

I too am a Brit enthusiast and have 70051 Firth of Forth in my collection. This could be considered a strange choice for me being a Scottish allocated loco I believe, but my justification is a couple of photos of it on Eastleigh 71A shed having worked in on a troop train to Southampton docks.

 

I also spent 5 years out on the mainline with Hosking’s locos and enjoyed numerous trips out with 70000. Very hard riding loco and quite dirty to work due to various cyclones generated by cab/ tender design, trying to pull coal forward when on the run was a particularly unpleasant experience, no matter how much the coal was slaked it was always just whirlpools of coal dust in your face.

 

Also they were prone to slipping at speed, a terrifying sensation when experienced for the first time. I was convinced we were going to come off the rails…but we didn’t and I lived to tell the tale. Nothing subtle about them, just brutes of an engine.

Edited January 8, 2023 by PhilH

[andyman7]

On 08/01/2023 at 15:54, The Johnster said:

 

The 1975 Iron Duke version for mail order catalogue train sets shows up on eBay occasionally; it had no Walchearts valve gear or smoke deflectors and stick-on red-backed nameplates on the side of the smokebox.  AFAIK, it was never released for general sale.  The prototype is well-known as the understudy to William Shakespeare at Stewart's Lane for the Golden Arrow.  It was originally allox to Old Oak Common as the first of the WR's batch, but the WR wanted more Castles and had been overruled by Marylebone, and as the loco went in to traffic at the same time as the Southern was having problems with the MNs and was short of locos, the WR 'lent' Iron Duke to Stewart's Lane and never asked for it back.

 

Apparently (according to the Pat Hammond volume) the Iron Duke needed separately tooled smokebox end as the regular tooling included the mounts for the smoke deflectors; a small number were made with smoke deflectors due to temporary unavailability of the special part.   

[The Johnster]

The sort of thing that collectors go nuts over, a small number made with smoke deflectors due to temporary unavailability of the special part...   It is perhaps a little surprising that the initial Triang model was not Iron Duke or William Shakespeare, especially as the year it came out it featured as the catalogue cover hauling Triang's Pullman coaches with the River Thames and the Houses of Parliament in the background, as if it was running along the Lambeth embankment.  This could have been taken as a nod to the Southern Region's Britannias and their involvement with the Golden Arrow, though of course that train started from Victoria rather than Waterloo, which is just around the corner from Lambeth.  My memory might be playing me false, but ISTR there were Golden Arrow golden arrow stickers included with the loco, but that might have been to do with a train set; it was a long time ago!

 

Asked for a Brit for xmas that year, but got a Winston Churchill instead, with synchrosmoke.

[paul 27]

Just purchased the 15 Guinea Set, compared to older models  they have made the cab roof 

sliding hatches larger than the older models comparing with my Lord Rowallan, no way

to modify these as the cab has been retooled not sure if the rest of the body has,  not

seen this mentioned before unless there is a link to this on here.

Edited July 2, 2023 by paul 27

[paul 27]

Refering to my previous post the new models have the larger cab

roof hatches are these dimensionally correct compared to the older

models i am surprised this has not been mentioned before about the

retooled body,  placed in the wanted section any one have a BR1D

tender top to sell for the latest models.

[paul 27]

Are the tender tops interchangeable between the latest

4 Pin  and the previous 2 Pin  tenders.