Dapol OO 'Air Ministry' 14T tank wagons

[Wickham Green too]

37 minutes ago, Fredo said:

Hi, do you know yet when the new OO gauge Oil Tankers will be in the shops yet?

Thanks Fred

Probably says on their website.

 

19 hours ago, markw said:

Was it though, the painting of Oakbank Oil 35 in light stone with red band on the tank at least 7 months after this date throws some doubt on that.

Of course - like any works photo - we don't know whether the wagon entered traffic thus !!?!

[Pteremy]

19 hours ago, markw said:

Was it though, the painting of Oakbank Oil 35 in light stone with red band on the tank at least 7 months after this date throws some doubt on that.

 

 

I have found most of the answer in Coppins (Oil on the Rails) p101. In 1939 the RCH finally accepted representations that aluminium paint should be used instead of stone (it dried faster and was more resistant to staining). The red band would be limited to the cross heads and for 1 ft 6ins along the barrel, to allow firms to insert their names. The frames to be painted black. The timing was that stone should be used until the end of 1939, when silver would become compulsory. 

 

Fidczuk describes the change in livery (to grey with red solebar) as applying from July 1940, as a result of concern that the 'existing RCH livery' was too visible from the air. The caption/photo used to illustrate the very first batch of Air Min tanks shows a tank in an existing RCH livery of RCH stone with a red band and black solebar.  

 

The only loose end is that the GWR instruction apparently refers to red solebars. I can't explain that - but the 'red bar' in Oakbank photo is clearly in the style envisaged by the RCH 1939 proposed change.

[gwrrob]

9 hours ago, Fredo said:

Hi, do you know yet when the new OO gauge Oil Tankers will be in the shops yet?

 

I was led to believe the last week in May or early June so anytime now @Fredo

[Fredo]

Thanks 

[Jack P]

Apologies - I've had a bit of a read but am still confused. 

 

I model 1947.

 

I've ordered some of the black class B tanks (Esso, BP/Shell and Wiggins), my understanding is that the livery would be correct, but the ladders would need to be removed to be approximately appropriate? I've also gone for the Esso Silver Class A tank, which is ok for that period, albeit would have been freshly painted?

 

Am I somewhat on the right track here, I am guessing a fair bit!

[Wickham Green too]

According to Peter Fidczuk's Modeller's Backtrack article "With the Abandonment of the Petroleum Board in 1947, the oil companies ... from August 1947 started to repaint their wagons into their 'house' colours. At about the same time a large number of Air Ministry were sold to the oil companies; ... about 1300 went to SMBP, at least 600went to Esso and 165 went to National Benzole. The remainder were sold to a multitude of smaller firms, e.g. ... Berry Wiggins ..." ............. so your guess is probably along the right lines. Presumably the Class 'B' conversions* would have received a quick coat of black paint but many Class 'A' could have retained Ministry or interim liveries for a while.

 

* commenced for the locomotive oil-burning scheme from late 1946

 

P.S. Have you responded to John's e-mail last night ?

[Jack P]

18 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

According to Peter Fidczuk's Modeller's Backtrack article "With the Abandonment of the Petroleum Board in 1947, the oil companies ... from August 1947 started to repaint their wagons into their 'house' colours. At about the same time a large number of Air Ministry were sold to the oil companies; ... about 1300 went to SMBP, at least 600went to Esso and 165 went to National Benzole. The remainder were sold to a multitude of smaller firms, e.g. ... Berry Wiggins ..." ............. so your guess is probably along the right lines. Presumably the Class 'B' conversions* would have received a quick coat of black paint but many Class 'A' could have retained Ministry or interim liveries for a while.

 

* commenced for the locomotive oil-burning scheme from late 1946

 

P.S. Have you responded to John's e-mail last night ?

I might’ve missed it, what were the air ministry/interim liveries? 

[Wickham Green too]

Grey with red solebars ...... Air Ministry lettering was superseded by ( similarly small ) Company lettering on at least some tanks on transfer.

[Cwmtwrch]

1 hour ago, Wickham Green too said:

Air Ministry lettering

So far as I know the only means, up to circa September 1947, of identifying the owner of wagons operated by the Petroleum Board was the letters in front of the number, so PB=Petroleum Board, AM=Air Ministry, SM=Shell-Mex [& BP?], AA=Anglo American, i.e Esso, etc. Apart from that class A tanks carried the standard "No naked light" notice, and "For repairs advise the Petroleum Board, Shell-Mex House, Strand, London WC2". Thereafter tanks started to appear in owners' liveries, but the repair address, at least initially, continued to be The Petroleum Board, which ceased to exist 30/6/1948. 

[Pteremy]

Fidczuk (pt1 p35) describes the wartime grey as BS32 - matt dark battleship grey. I assume that the modern equivalent is BS 632 - dark admiralty grey. Apart from an abortive experiment with 'lead' grey he says that the only other wartime change was in December 1941 when semi gloss paint was allowed.

 

On immediate post war liveries (pt2 p65) he references a photo showing a Class A tank painted in plain 'silverette' (the aluminium paint approved by the RCH in 1939, and used post war until the 1960s) with a paint date of June 1946.

 

So it looks as if in 1947 you might find Class A tanks: still in wartime grey, in plain silverette, and then, from late 1947, in silverette with oil company names (as per the 1950s)

 

[markw]

1 hour ago, Pteremy said:

Fidczuk (pt1 p35) describes the wartime grey as BS32 - matt dark battleship grey. I assume that the modern equivalent is BS 632 - dark admiralty grey. Apart from an abortive experiment with 'lead' grey he says that the only other wartime change was in December 1941 when semi gloss paint was allowed.

 

On immediate post war liveries (pt2 p65) he references a photo showing a Class A tank painted in plain 'silverette' (the aluminium paint approved by the RCH in 1939, and used post war until the 1960s) with a paint date of June 1946.

 

So it looks as if in 1947 you might find Class A tanks: still in wartime grey, in plain silverette, and then, from late 1947, in silverette with oil company names (as per the 1950s)

 

The grey changed to lead grey (BS35) in Feb 41 initially blinded, the blinding was discontinued in Oct 41 but the lead grey continued untill the end of the war.

[Pteremy]

3 hours ago, markw said:

The grey changed to lead grey (BS35) in Feb 41 initially blinded, the blinding was discontinued in Oct 41 but the lead grey continued untill the end of the war.

 

Ah yes, I understand now. In which case it looks like the modern equivalent of the 'grey' that may still have been around in 1947 is BS 635 Lead.

[rembrow]

Dapol have posted on Facebook this afternoon, that stock of the tanks has arrived with them and distribution to retailers will be commencing.

[GMKAT7]

Good afternoon folks,

 

RoS are advising that these models are due imminently with them 😃

 

Looking forward to my two Shell BP black tanks arriving, although mine will be from Dan @ Derails. With some custard creams I hope.🤗

 

Cheers, Nigel.

[Suzy Sulzer]

19 minutes ago, GMKAT7 said:

Good afternoon folks,

 

RoS are advising that these models are due imminently with them 😃

 

Looking forward to my two Shell BP black tanks arriving, although mine will be from Dan @ Derails. With some custard creams I hope.🤗

 

Cheers, Nigel.

so are Kernow modes

[it's-er]

Some photos, please, once we’ve got them!

 

John S

[Pteremy]

I wonder if they will start a trend in downsized packaging - it is 80% of the typical sized box for a 'traditional' wagon - so length 12cm rather than 15cm. But with a clam shell no less robust.

[Dunsignalling]

15 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

 

My brace of black Shell-BP tanks arrived from Camborne twenty minutes ago.

 

Immediate impressions.

 

Excellent. Without measuring anything, they look right, and the detail is finely rendered. Surprisingly heavy, too.

 

I like the new smaller boxes, too.

 

I'm unlikely to get the chance to photograph them till after the weekend  unfortunately.

 

 

John

 

Can confirm, the underframes appear to be diecast, hence the weight.

 

Edited June 8 by Dunsignalling

[GMKAT7]

Good afternoon folks,

 

Whoop whoop, payment request from Derails this afternoon!

 

Looking forward to getting my mitts on the two Shell BP tanks later this week 😁

 

Cheers, Nigel.

[markw]

On 07/06/2024 at 17:01, Dunsignalling said:

John

 

Can confirm, the underframes appear to be diecast, hence the weight.

 

The underframes are plastic, there is a large 2 part weight inside the barrel.

The springing is similar to bill Bedford's arrangement using a piece of wire as the spring, but they have plain axle ends running in a plastic bearing so are not the freest running wagons.

The class B versions have the steam manifold in one end along with the welded panel where the heating coils were inserted.

There are three different arrangements of the tank top details in this release, I would like to see the long catwalk and ladders on a class B tank in a future release.

I was able to remove the dashes either side of the BP by lightly scraping with a scalpel blade.

Comparison photo of the relative sizes of Oxford, Bachmann and Dapol tanks.

And finally one I dis-assembled and stripped the livery off using brake fluid.

[Dunsignalling]

32 minutes ago, markw said:

The underframes are plastic, there is a large 2 part weight inside the barrel.

The springing is similar to bill Bedford's arrangement using a piece of wire as the spring, but they have plain axle ends running in a plastic bearing so are not the freest running wagons.

The class B versions have the steam manifold in one end along with the welded panel where the heating coils were inserted.

There are three different arrangements of the tank top details in this release, I would like to see the long catwalk and ladders on a class B tank in a future release.

I was able to remove the dashes either side of the BP by lightly scraping with a scalpel blade.

Comparison photo of the relative sizes of Oxford, Bachmann and Dapol tanks.

And finally one I dis-assembled and stripped the livery off using brake fluid.

Thanks, my tap test is clearly deficient.

 

Plastic should make my own alterations easier.

[MarkSG]

40 minutes ago, markw said:

Comparison photo of the relative sizes of Oxford, Bachmann and Dapol tanks.

 

 

That's a really nice illustration of the difference between the different designs.

[MarkSG]

59 minutes ago, markw said:

And finally one I dis-assembled and stripped the livery off using brake fluid.

 

And that photo suggests that it should be relatively straightfoward to remove the ladders from the class B tanks to make them more suitable for an earlier date. You'd need to fill the holes left behind by their removal, but that shouldn't be a major issue.

[Cwmtwrch]

Thanks for the photos, most helpful. Could you advise the external diameter of the tank, please?

[markw]

12 minutes ago, Cwmtwrch said:

Thanks for the photos, most helpful. Could you advise the external diameter of the tank, please?

29mm or thereabouts