Rapido OO Gauge GWR 44xx/45xx/4575 Small Prairie

[Miss Prism]

1 hour ago, Captain Kernow said:

Does this mean that the Bachmann one is wrong for all eras in respect of the above or is the meaning that Rapido are be offering more choice and variety?

 

The latter of course.

 

[phil-b259]

3 hours ago, faulcon1 said:

Be that as it may I still don't see the need to upgrade............yet..        

It’s not about upgrading - it’s about Rapido gaining sales for relatively little extra work!

The implication that effectively there will be no new entrants into the hobby or the GWR / BR(W) modelling scene and its only people wanting to ‘upgrade’ is simply nonsense - I fully expect Rapido to gain significant sales in place Bachman from those looking to start adding a 45XX to their collection.

[Captain Kernow]

12 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

 

The latter of course.

 

Well, that's good to know, but one of the downsides (certainly for old f*rts like me) of all this social media and instant communications is that any slight problem in any model is instantly brought to one's attention and possibly magnified out of all proportion to the actual effect one sees with the naked eye at normal viewing distances.

 

I am firmly of the believe that many of us 'of a certain age' were happier before the advent of 'social media', because the only means to be told that 'your model is wrong' was either by a magazine review or some chap at an exhibition pointing something out. Otherwise, one lived in blissful ignorance.

 

There's a lot to be said for blissful ignorance.

 

So, I shall not be getting any Rapido 45XXs or 4575s, because I am perfectly happy with the one Bachmann example I have but I shall certainly get a 44XX, provided it can be persuaded to run satisfactorily and the wheel profile is benign.

 

[woodenhead]

@Captain Kernow It comes down to how important it is to either have the latest model because it is shiny shiny or to have a model absolutely accurate to the particular prototype locomotive it is representing.

 

I realise now that the 'shiny shiny' element is something I can be cursed with and I was very close to ordering a Rapido model to replace a Bachmann model that is currently languishing unused in a storage box along with all my other GW locos including two panniers!  This was partly because I wanted sound fitted, but I have now realised that actually adding sound and a stay alive is a lot less complicated than I had led myself to believe, it's just a case of careful consideration to the best application of the elements.

 

If you own a Bachmann model and it is fettled to your personal preference why would you upgrade to a newer one, you might add to your stable but I doubt you'd sell the one you have.  When I came back to OO a few years back the Bachmann 45xx was the first loco I bought because I thought then and still do now that it was a fine looking model.  It would no doubt be similar with Panniers, to me the biggest issue remains the top feed, but otherwise panniers of the non Hornby stable have been very good since Mainline did one all those decades ago.

 

I am sure it will sell well but I am now of the mindset that I don't need to purchase everything that model railway companies produce.

[RapidoCorbs]

Let's focus on the 44xx first ;) 45xx is ages away.

[cctransuk]

25 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

I am sure it will sell well but I am now of the mindset that I don't need to purchase everything that model railway companies produce.

 

Spot-on - the latest releases, from all companies, are ones which would have produced knee-jerk orders a few years ago.

 

Nowadays, a more sensible mindset and inflating prices mean that my reaction is "Nice, but I hardly use the vast number of locos etc. that I already have; why waste more money on something more for my family to try and flog when I've gone?"

 

Those companies relying on the retired / reasonably well-off sector of the market may well find more sales resistance than hitherto, as we age and become more pragmatic!

 

CJI.

[Legend]

1 minute ago, cctransuk said:

 

Spot-on - the latest releases, from all companies, are ones which would have produced knee-jerk orders a few years ago.

 

Nowadays, a more sensible mindset and inflating prices mean that my reaction is "Nice, but I hardly use the vast number of locos etc. that I already have; why waste more money on something more for my family to try and flog when I've gone?"

 

Those companies relying on the retired / reasonably well-off sector of the market may well find more sales resistance than hitherto, as we age and become more pragmatic!

 

CJI.

 

Exactly right !  Not helped by the fact that I'm at saturation point with models . I do have a vast number which only see use occasionally , my Bachmann 45xx, being one . And actually when I get these models out , its been so long since last run , its like having a new model to play over again !    So , the shiny - shiny , must have it effect is gone . Last acquisitions have been directly related to Scotland and only when they reach bargain price .  Looking forward to the Jones Goods , but thats it !

[rprodgers]

15 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

Does this mean that the Bachmann one is wrong for all eras in respect of the above or is the meaning that Rapido are be offering more choice and variety?

 

I take it to mean that Rapido are looking to increase the variety offered.

Hopefully this includes those originally with a  straight drop front end, (4500-29), with/without cab shutters/ outside steam pipes,  choice of safety valves, tapered buffers  etc.

(I appreciate one with a short bunker would be too much to expect 😊).

 

This is no different from the desire for a new 57xx pannier without top feed.

The 57xx in my eyes, even though an older model, still looks miles better detailed than Bachmann’s 45xx despite its age.

Personally a GW 2021 saddle tank/ pannier would be more exciting for me than another 57xx.

 

The Bachmann 45xx essentially portrays a (later batch lot 191-) curved drop front frame post 1930 version. Things like cab shutters are equally difficult to remove.

 

The Bachmann 45xx to me now looks dated /clumsy in the detail : boiler fittings (incl. chimney, safety valve cover, whistles) coupling rods, handrails, lamp irons, wheels etc, when compared to more recent offerings like Dapol’s 51xx.

 

Hattons suggest the Bachmann 45xx is now 20 years old this year.
Like their Ivatt 2MT 2-6-2T there is no sign that they intend to give it a mid life update as they did with the 57xx/8750.

 

 

 

[Harlequin]

48 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Spot-on - the latest releases, from all companies, are ones which would have produced knee-jerk orders a few years ago.

 

Nowadays, a more sensible mindset and inflating prices mean that my reaction is "Nice, but I hardly use the vast number of locos etc. that I already have; why waste more money on something more for my family to try and flog when I've gone?"

 

Those companies relying on the retired / reasonably well-off sector of the market may well find more sales resistance than hitherto, as we age and become more pragmatic!

 

CJI.

There are retired well off people entering the market with very little rolling stock, and eager to buy the new models, at the same time as people who've been buying for years are thinking twice about new purchases.

 

I'm sure the manufacturers have considered all that in their market research.

 

Edited November 21, 2023 by Harlequin

[Dunsignalling]

5 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Spot-on - the latest releases, from all companies, are ones which would have produced knee-jerk orders a few years ago.

 

Nowadays, a more sensible mindset and inflating prices mean that my reaction is "Nice, but I hardly use the vast number of locos etc. that I already have; why waste more money on something more for my family to try and flog when I've gone?"

 

Those companies relying on the retired / reasonably well-off sector of the market may well find more sales resistance than hitherto, as we age and become more pragmatic!

 

CJI.

 

4 hours ago, Legend said:

 

Exactly right !  Not helped by the fact that I'm at saturation point with models . I do have a vast number which only see use occasionally , my Bachmann 45xx, being one . And actually when I get these models out , its been so long since last run , its like having a new model to play over again !    So , the shiny - shiny , must have it effect is gone . Last acquisitions have been directly related to Scotland and only when they reach bargain price .  Looking forward to the Jones Goods , but thats it !

I too have noticeably "pulled my horns in" on new loco purchases. I'm still regularly seduced by coaches and wagons, though! 

 

In my case, it's been at least as much driven by lack of space as financial considerations but when my sell-off of stuff I've forgotten I had or bought in quantities larger than I'll need for a home layout is complete, I shall have more of both and I may become more easily tempted once more!

 

Hornby and Bachmann have had a very thin time of things lately. No (new) red-box loco purchases since a solitary Air-smoothed MN (they haven't yet done another appropriate to my wants) the 6w RR Sentinel, and an impulse-buy Terrier (discounted), with just a Caprotti 5MT in the offing. I got one of Bachmann's re-chassis Ivatt tanks which is probably even longer ago, can't think of anything else since!

 

Lately, I've gone a bit "Rule 1" with locos I just fancied; not like me at all! Fortunately, I've never been a fan of big ER stuff and I managed to resist a LM Turbomotive with surprisingly little effort.

 

Various industrials, a WR Gas Turbine, Manor and 15xx, and with a wholly inappropriate Jones Goods on pre-order! Will I get a 44xx? Almost certainly, but only the one and I've not yet decided which.... 

 

John

 

    

Edited November 21, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[No Decorum]

2 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

 

I too have noticeably "pulled my horns in" on new loco purchases. I'm still regularly seduced by coaches and wagons, though! 

 

In my case, it's been at least as much driven by lack of space as financial considerations but when my sell-off of stuff I've forgotten I had or bought in quantities larger than I'll need for a home layout is complete, I shall have more of both and I may become more easily tempted once more!

 

Hornby and Bachmann have had a very thin time of things lately. No (new) red-box loco purchases since a solitary Air-smoothed MN (they haven't yet done another appropriate to my wants) the 6w RR Sentinel, and an impulse-buy Terrier (discounted), with just a Caprotti 5MT in the offing. I got one of Bachmann's re-chassis Ivatt tanks which is probably even longer ago, can't think of anything else since!

 

Lately, I've gone a bit "Rule 1" with locos I just fancied; not like me at all! Fortunately, I've never been a fan of big ER stuff and I managed to resist a LM Turbomotive with surprisingly little effort.

 

Various industrials, a WR Gas Turbine, Manor and 15xx, and with a wholly inappropriate Jones Goods on pre-order! Will I get a 44xx? Almost certainly, but only the one and I've not yet undecided which.... 

 

John

 

    

In some respects, you may have dodged a bullet with the Turbomotive. I had one on order without pausing to reflect or make any effort whatever to resist. It is good in many ways but all the messing about trying to achieve working lights have made it far more expensive than it needed to be. I think I shall end up running mine without any lights lit.

[The Stationmaster]

23 hours ago, Harlequin said:

There are retired well off people entering the market with very little rolling stock, and eager to buy the new models, at the same time as people who've been buying for years are thinking twice about new purchases.

 

I'm sure the manufacturers have considered all that in their market research.

 

And not just older people as there is an affluent area in the late 20s - mid 30s and I suspect that is where a lot of TT120 sales might be going.  But the 'retired people' market sector is perpetually self renewing although the level of disposable income might well vary

[Compound2632]

38 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

And not just older people as there is an affluent area in the late 20s - mid 30s and I suspect that is where a lot of TT120 sales might be going.  But the 'retired people' market sector is perpetually self renewing although the level of disposable income might well vary

 

BC and AC - before children and after children. But WC - without children - the hobby would ultimately go down the pan.

[Dunsignalling]

25 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

BC and AC - before children and after children. But WC - without children - the hobby would ultimately go down the pan.

 

As would everything else! 😇

[gwrrob]

Thanks to @RapidoCorbs for shewing this today at the NEC.

 

 

 

 

[The Johnster]

Aw, look at it's cute little baby driving wheels, bless, but hang on a mo...

 

...Is this an actually slidiing sliding cab side shutter I see before me, the handle towards the rear and a different piece of plastic to the red bits?  If so, kudos Rapido, TTBOMK a first for RTR and AFAIK kits as well!  We've come a long way from the K's model...

 

I'm told that these shutters orginated on the 56xx class after adverse comment from ex-Rhymney Railway (Wrth Ddwr A Than, By Fire And Water, a very good motto for a railway) drivers comparing it to the R class it was based on and meant to replace.  One gets a bit of weather sometimes up at Dowlais and Rhymni itself isn't exactly sheltered, and horizontal rain, which got sleety even in summer occasionally, apparently cut across the cab more than had been the case on the Rhymney Stephensons, and the sliding shutter eventually appeared on all the GW's larger side tank engings down to the small prairies and up to the 72xx.

[gwrrob]

2 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

.Is this an actually slidiing sliding cab side shutter I see before me, the handle towards the rear and a different piece of plastic to the red bits?  If so, kudos Rapido, TTBOMK a first for RTR and AFAIK kits as well!  We've come a long way from the K's model...

 

Indeed it has.

[The Johnster]

Yay!  I shouldn't have one of these, they were present at Tondu for working the Porthcawl Branch which had retained it's tramway curvature, and I have no evidence of them ever appearing north of the Tondu Triangle, but it would be the perfect engine for Cwmdimbath's pickup, and I've been asking for sliding shutters for a while, so when a manufacturer has apparently listened to me, it would be rude not to, wouldn't it...

 

Just picture one hammering around South Cornelly curves, pistons going like b*ggery and wheels whizzing around at a rate that wouldn't have shamed Mallard coming down Stoke that time, at all of 15mph!!!, flanges shrieking on the check rail and sparks flying, frightening the golfers!  Insanity, the only engines not restricted to 5mph here, and turned at Tondu every lunchtime to even out the flange wear, brilliant stuff!

 

The Porthcawl Branch led to some esoterica at Tondu, the 44xx were not the only left fielders at what was on the face of it a very typical and ordinary South Wales Valleys shed.  Pre-war, the 44xx shared the Porthcawl work with a successsion of Bulldogs, for the daily through Cardiff commuter train, the 'residential'.  This terminated in the long-vanished bay Platform 5 at Cardiff General, filled in in the 60s, but it's ghost can be traced in the form of the canopy between 3 and 4 at the down end.  With platform faces on both sides of the stock, it was very useful for quick loading or unloading of NPCCS.

 

When this train was re-instated after the war, it was allocated to 3100, doyen of the 1938 Collett 31xx class, the ultimate large prairie, no.4 boiler to 225psi, 5'3" drivers, proper thug of an engine.  Collett's intention was to rebuild Churchwards 3150 class to this specification, and 3100's ability to get five gangwayed coaches up to speed from the main line stops was considered valuable.  In the event only 5 were rebuilt. 

 

The loco was involved in a 'heavy contact' with the buffers at Porthcawl in 1958, and was used as a pilot at Ogmore Jc for a short while while it was decided what to do with it.  It was sent to Swindon for repair and overhaul but Swindon scrapped it, and apparently the feeling at Tondu was that this was a bit of a waste of a good engine and had been mistaken because the frames were dated to the original 3150 loco; withdrawal of the 3150s was fully under way at the time.  In fact, the other 4 Collett rebuild locos were all gone within 18 months of this, so chances are it wouldn't have lasted much longer anyway.  4144, allox TDU new in 1948 as it's understudy, took the task on until the working was given over to a Canton class 120 Cross-Country dmu, 4144 remaining at Tondu into the early 60s.  It is of course still with us.

[Hal Nail]

Those water tank filler handles are considerably finer than lionhearts 7mm one!

 

I know the Bachmann 45xx isn't a bad model but one of this quality would still be a step up.

[rprodgers]

If I may ask some questions for Rapido @RapidoCorbs with regard to the 4400 (early 1920s) version, will the copper cap and safety valve be a painted finish copper / brass ?
 

If so I think I will be looking at 4408.

 

Will all the GW versions (from the two earliest to the last two) be the same shade of green ? 
I know that there is not universal agreement on any change to GW green. Albeit there are later anecdotal tales of Swindon thinning down the paint that once fired the loco’s  green paint darkened.

 

Looking good !

 

Edited December 4, 2023 by rprodgers
Missing detail

[Michael Hodgson]

On 26/11/2023 at 17:57, gwrrob said:

Thanks to @RapidoCorbs for shewing this today at the NEC.

 

 

 

 

An unusual choce of livery - GWR red primer!

[woodenhead]

1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

An unusual choce of livery - GWR red primer!

It beats BR large logo 😁

[Miss Prism]

On the 44xx, the coupling rod knuckle should be in front of the crankpin.

 

(I can appreciate why Rapido's toolmakers have done what they have done though, assuming what they have done was intentional.)

 

[Miss Prism]

On the 44xx, please try to make the spokes thinner. It was a feature of the prototype. (Ironically, the 44 driver was atypical of Wolverhampton, most of whose spokes were chunkier than Swindon's.)

 

 

[tomparryharry]

From here, it looks good. I wonder if Llantrisant ever borrowed a 44xx tank?