Class 50, By Accurascale

[Bishdurham]

Should have announced a NER T3 / LNER Q7  nobody is going to make one of those or are they?  :-)

[adb968008]

55 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

It's very rare for models to become unsellable -certainly anything 2 rail from the last 40 years. I would expect Lima 50s to make £20 all day long in working condition because that's still a bargain price point compared to £80.
Re your Bachmann 46, surely that's a classic case to stick on ebay for 99p start. Bet it makes more than £25 as an auction, it's the psychology... 🙂

 

Think about cost of sale…

 

£5 to post, £3 on fees… if you get £20, you receive £12.

 

If I want to put better bogies on my 45/1 from Heljan… thats £10 from Bachmann.

Then the motor/shaft is worth £15-20, and fits a wide range of Bachmann locos, and the gear box could be in something else.

 

So instead of getting £12, ive £22 in parts, immediately useful.

leaves me a body, box and chassis.. mix it with a bunch of other garbage and pass it on, or bin it.

 

However as a whole, its really worthless, ok £12.. thats hardly a pint in my neck of the woods… so its really scrap.

 

Theres thousands of Hornby 50’s out there, and hundreds will start trickling out, pushing down price.

 

Lima 50’s I think are less fortunate… ebay is full of them for £20 already… I just typed Lima 50 into ebay, I got 139 results !!!

 

The motor bogie is only useful for another 50 or an equally bad 55. The body isnt worth putting on a Hornby chassis… I see no hope for most of them except silly destruction youtube videos.

 

Edited November 24, 2022 by adb968008

[reddragon]

I will be buying a class 50 but the range initially offered doesn't offer what I want. Largo Logo with grey roof maybe but not the one offered.

 

I look forward to the specials.

 

Will there only be Accurascale exclusives or will others offer them too?

[Chilly]

If only 50008 'Thunderer' hadn't passed through my local town 3-4 weeks ago I would have been able to avoid this class, damn you mainline certification 😬 And order made 🙄

[6990WitherslackHall]

On 23/11/2022 at 12:53, 96701 said:

Ill just leave this here showing original 50s.

 

 

And a 47

[6990WitherslackHall]

1 hour ago, Bishdurham said:

Should have announced a NER T3 / LNER Q7  nobody is going to make one of those or are they?  :-)

Who made the T2/Q6? Was it Hornby?

[Wolf27]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

Think about cost of sale…

 

£5 to post, £3 on fees… if you get £20, you receive £12.

 

If I want to put better bogies on my 45/1 from Heljan… thats £10 from Bachmann.

Then the motor/shaft is worth £15-20, and fits a wide range of Bachmann locos, and the gear box could be in something else.

 

So instead of getting £12, ive £22 in parts, immediately useful.

leaves me a body, box and chassis.. mix it with a bunch of other garbage and pass it on, or bin it.

 

However as a whole, its really worthless, ok £12.. thats hardly a pint in my neck of the woods… so its really scrap.

 

Theres thousands of Hornby 50’s out there, and hundreds will start trickling out, pushing down price.

 

Lima 50’s I think are less fortunate… ebay is full of them for £20 already… I just typed Lima 50 into ebay, I got 139 results !!!

 

The motor bogie is only useful for another 50 or an equally bad 55. The body isnt worth putting on a Hornby chassis… I see no hope for most of them except silly destruction youtube videos.

 

Still won’t stop the larger box shifter retailer making prices up for second hand tat.

[Calidore]

John Woolley on Flickr

 

All the excuse I needed for 50006 (yes it has the headlight but I'm blissfully unbothered). Lovely.

[McC]

57 minutes ago, reddragon said:

I will be buying a class 50 but the range initially offered doesn't offer what I want. Largo Logo with grey roof maybe but not the one offered.

 

I look forward to the specials.

 

Will there only be Accurascale exclusives or will others offer them too?

 

There will be exclusives, more releases, and more exclusives and more releases, for the next several decades, like all of our ranges :) 

[Islesy]

1 hour ago, 6990WitherslackHall said:

Who made the T2/Q6? Was it Hornby?

It was, yes. One of my first projects there as well...

[6990WitherslackHall]

First 50 I ever saw was 50008 Thunderer. 

 

 

Is a model of this loco going to be produced?

 

Edit: just looked on the pages before this one. It is. 

Edited November 24, 2022 by 6990WitherslackHall

[Chilly]

1 minute ago, 6990WitherslackHall said:

First 50 I ever saw was 50008 Thunderer. 

 

 

Is a model of this loco going to be produced?

Yes, I have ordered one 🙂

[Hilux5972]

3 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 

I really dislike this livery on the loco ends.  It looks like it should be fitted with type of prison bars across the windscreen used where drivers need protection from yobbos lobbing bricks off bridges.  And of course anybody caught doing that ought to be charged with attempted murder.

I definitely agree about the ends. It would look much better if they were curved downwards like the Streamlined bathtubs. 

[Bishdurham]

2 hours ago, 6990WitherslackHall said:

Who made the T2/Q6? Was it Hornby?

I believe you are correct, but there is a big difference between the two.

[D9020 Nimbus]

I think the reason "duplication" is considered a bad thing is because people would rather something new to the market be produced rather than a "duplicate". Duplication in the U.K. is less significant than, say, in Germany where within the last few years three manufacturers have released an up-to-date version of a  BR101 electric loco — in N gauge!

 

There are I think still some steam locos worth producing. I have no idea which (if any) tank loco two firms are supposedly going "head-to-head" over, according to @adb968008. I'd hope it might be a J67/J69, although if it hasn't raised steam for over 70 years, it can't be one of those as they survived into the 1960s—and one is preserved and has presumably been operational at some point since withdrawal. And it's a lot less "niche" than a Beattie well tank or an Adams Radial… It's one of only a few locos that I'd considered buying in OO.

 

There is convincing evidence that the transition era is still the most popular. In the most recent release of Graham Farish class 31s, the blue and green variants sold out far more quickly than the others, even though those liveries had been done before and none of the others had.

[dj_crisp]

6 hours ago, Torbay Express said:

I did suggest 50018 in RES if they ever did a Class 50.  Someone had done the art work, and back in the day's of Western Respray Services, at the Milton Keynes show they had one painted up!  Thought about it yesterday, but being so 'New' didn't want to suggest anything just yet, But, especially as things sell much better if they actually happen.... 

 

If Class 50 Alliance and Accurascale did a little joined up thinking.... the next time a Class 50 in normal form (IE not 50044 without headlight etc) was due a repaint, why not do one shopped out as 50018 Resolution in RES, with a fixed amount from the sales of the subsequent model sales going to fund the painting. Net result,  50 Alliance get a loco repainted (and possibly a bit more!), the model becomes more attractive to produce, and we all have the opportunity to have a model of it!  I think that would be an all round winner (apart from less to spend on the wife, unless I bought her a few flowers too!) 

 

Resolution... one of my fave 50s in RES. I dont think I can cope with that thought 😂

[Farang]

Look at the brake activator and those CHAINS. I hope it's not going to be the Deltic all over again.

[Torbay Express]

8 hours ago, scumcat said:

I honestly don’t get why modellers wish to pit manufacturers against each other like this. Duplication is a bad thing. Accurascale or cavalex etc vs Hornby can only end badly for the hobby in general.

 

When the Hornby Class 50 arrived it was £80, over the years, while costs have increased, you are now looking at £220+,and actually that's for less because whether love the features or not, the mechanism for the elastic band driven fan, and even metal handrails have become plastic!  Add to that, quality control circa 50024/46 and D400, and product arguably deteriorated.  Another example 50007/49 in GBRf, wrong Blue, but sold out.  Would that have occurred if a better competing product had become available? 

 

Regrettably three of the largest, have quite simply had the market to themselves, been able to do things how they have wanted and probably been a tad greedy! If you wanted a decent 37 you had to go to Bachmann, if you wanted a 50 you had to go to Hornby.  Therefore from an economics perspective the market has been 'rigged'.   If you want product A, you had to go to supplier X.  Therefore supplier X can price their product pretty much how they want, there is no/little incentive to improve. In most products, items such as tooling is deprecated over time, yet everything has gone up, up, up!  I recall once BCC selling 3 wagons for the price of two as a show offer, but they had run out at the show, but plenty enough at the warehouse. I asked politely if there would be any chance of paying for them now, and them being sent.  I was told 'No, they are cheap enough' that was for a £24.95 VGA that consists of very few parts.

 

As my Economics professor always said 'The highest monopoly profit leads to the quietest life',  Believe it or not model railways are an extremely difficult product to be involved with, and thus there are many barriers to entry, so existing players had it pretty easy.    But when prices hit a massive high, the barriers are still there, BUT risk versus reward gets more tempting.  Credit due, to those who have ventured and achieved! 

 

The actual reason that the likes of Cavalex, Revolution and Accurascale have entered the market, isn't to be nasty to the old hands.  It's because the old hands who have had custodianship of this hobby, have been able to be complacent in the firm belief nothing would change in this industry, which has arguably been an oligopoly. 

 

If you want a classic example, why did a Class 66 go from a retail of £189.99 to £144.99 when Hattons released theirs? 

 

Most recent progress has been made in this hobby, is due to the new entrants not just accepting, but asking why and coming up with innovative solutions.  

 

And actually, like with the Deltics I would say there are three distinct eras/markets for models.  Basic (ie upto early 90s Lima for example), Intermediate (Can Motors, vice pancake, fair detail), Advanced (Latest technology and how technology has progressed), so with Class 55 Deltic Lima, Bachmann, Accurascale respectively. The Class 50 fits quite well in that too with Lima, Hornby, Accurascale, respectively.    Its no different with Cars etc., everything improves over time, it's like would you buy a Cavalier if you could have a Mondeo? 

 

Now if you look at the prices if your in the 'market' for a Class 50 and can get advanced one for a similar price of intermediate, then I think it is pretty clear what can happen when market principles come in to play. 

 

Didn't mean to write an essay on the economic principles of the model market, but if A/S need a consultant.... 

 

 

[Accurascale Fran]

Hi @Farang,

 

You will be delighted to hear that both the 50 and 37 will have the chains mounted to the chassis, and not the body as per the Deltic. A lesson learned, and something that will be changed on Deltic run 2. Evolution, as we say.

 

Cheers!

 

Fran

[Islesy]

14 minutes ago, Torbay Express said:

It's because the old hands who have had custodianship of this hobby, have been able to be complacent in the firm belief nothing would change in this industry, which has arguably been an oligopoly. 

And hence why two team members have 'crossed the floor' from those old hands...

[steve1023]

I had a funny feeling in October that this may happen, so I flogged my only Hornby class 50. Glad I did now. Like the 31 & 37 nothing for me yet but I'm sure there will be in time.

Steve

[Torbay Express]

9 minutes ago, Islesy said:

And hence why two team members have 'crossed the floor' from those old hands...

I take it that you are not planning on going to any Margate Christmas Parties or Reunions anytime soon......to reminess on the good old days...... 

Edited November 24, 2022 by Torbay Express
Extra comment

[Islesy]

7 minutes ago, Torbay Express said:

I take it that you are not planning on going to any Margate Christmas Parties or Reunions anytime soon......to reminess on the good old days...... 

I still have good friends that are there and I will enjoy chatting to some of them over the course of this weekend. Time to return to the subject of the ultimate Class 50 😉

Edited November 24, 2022 by Islesy

[Torbay Express]

Yes, quite.  Actually one query - Minor but very noticeable as a kid when you used to see them buffer up! Does the rear of the buffer head have the strengthener/webbing? 

[andyman7]

4 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Think about cost of sale…

 

£5 to post, £3 on fees… if you get £20, you receive £12.

 

If I want to put better bogies on my 45/1 from Heljan… thats £10 from Bachmann.

Then the motor/shaft is worth £15-20, and fits a wide range of Bachmann locos, and the gear box could be in something else.

 

So instead of getting £12, ive £22 in parts, immediately useful.

leaves me a body, box and chassis.. mix it with a bunch of other garbage and pass it on, or bin it.

 

However as a whole, its really worthless, ok £12.. thats hardly a pint in my neck of the woods… so its really scrap.

 

Theres thousands of Hornby 50’s out there, and hundreds will start trickling out, pushing down price.

 

Lima 50’s I think are less fortunate… ebay is full of them for £20 already… I just typed Lima 50 into ebay, I got 139 results !!!

 

The motor bogie is only useful for another 50 or an equally bad 55. The body isnt worth putting on a Hornby chassis… I see no hope for most of them except silly destruction youtube videos.

 

I'm certainly not dissing breaking it for spares, but if you do sell on ebay using one of the regular 70% discount offers on fees and adding the correct postage you'll keep most of the sale price if you have no use for it. I know there's plenty of people can't be bothered, but over the years I have funded a good proportion of my hobby spend by recycling items others can't be bothered with. In fact, at my MRC I'm the one they give the boxes of rubbish to and I normally get £50 plus out of them for club funds, simply by knowing what the 'junk' actually is and being able to sort and advertise the right things to the right people.  

 

As for older/obsolete models, prices are surprising - Triang R751 Class 37s which you would think would have no market still sell very well on ebay at sub-£25 prices. Lima Deltics too. Type in 'completed' listings for Lima class 50s and analyse the results - no 'buy-it-now' has sold for less than £28 and most go for considerably more. The outliers are auctions starting at £30+ (too high a start price - a buy-it-now will sell at that level where an auction won't) and poorly described auction examples. But I'm not complaining, I'll buy them all day long at £20 🙂

Edited November 24, 2022 by andyman7