Hornby Railroad 9F (R2880) - Tender drawbar and wheel problems

[highpeakman]

I have just sold a Horny railroad 9F (R2880) on Ebay but have just had to agree a return owing to "damage" to the tender drawbar (broken into two pieces) and tender wheels that don't turn.

The loco is a few years old but was purchased by me when new. I have never subjected it to any stress and it has only ever run a few times on my own layout which is an end to end - 10 foot absolute max run. 

I have always been very careful in handling locos and had test run it before sale - mainly because I had removed the DCC chip that was previously in it. I did not notice any problems at all. I have never taken the tender apart.

 

It was packaged very carefully when it was shipped and the buyer said the package was not damaged.

 

I haven't received it back yet but it has been suggested that the problem is down to plastic decay. 

 

Has anyone ever seen anything like this or know what the problem might be please? Is it a weak point on this loco? I don't think I have heard of it before if it is.

 

Can anyone supply a photo of the underside of their railroad 9f tender for comparison please?

Edited November 12, 2022 by highpeakman
Addition of final question

[John Isherwood]

38 minutes ago, highpeakman said:

I have just sold a Horny railroad 9F (R2880) on Ebay but have just had to agree a return owing to "damage" to the tender drawbar (broken into two pieces) and tender wheels that don't turn.

The loco is a few years old but was purchased by me when new. I have never subjected it to any stress and it has only ever run a few times on my own layout which is an end to end - 10 foot absolute max run. 

I have always been very careful in handling locos and had test run it before sale - mainly because I had removed the DCC chip that was previously in it. I did not notice any problems at all. I have never taken the tender apart.

 

It was packaged very carefully when it was shipped and the buyer said the package was not damaged.

 

I haven't received it back yet but it has been suggested that the problem is down to plastic decay. 

 

Has anyone ever seen anything like this or know what the problem might be please? Is it a weak point on this loco? I don't think I have heard of it before if it is.

 

Can anyone supply a photo of the underside of their railroad 9f tender for comparison please?

 

The cast metal tender chassis has mazak-rot - are you sure that you tested it before despatch? With the amount of swelling and distortion evident in your photos, it's hardly surprising that the tender wheels won't turn.

 

The broken loco/ tender coupling has probably been caused by the package being dropped on its end in-transit. It is a weak plastic component connecting two heavy lumps of cast metal.

 

The decayed tender chassis block will have to be replaced with a spare - if such are still available

 

CJI.

[NCB]

There's very little wear on the middle wheels, which suggests that these are the non-turning ones. Are they a smaller diameter?

[Hroth]

R2880 is well known for mazak rot in its tender. The tender chassis is just the frame of the motor from the previous tender drive version.  It's possible to cannibalise  an old tender drive 9F, or it can be replaced by the unpowered bogie from one of Hornbys diesels of a similar era, but I can't remember which one it is at present!

 

What you do need to do is to try and get the chassis out of the tender before the expansion starts to crack the plastic.

 

 

Edited November 12, 2022 by Hroth

[highpeakman]

18 hours ago, Hroth said:

R2880 is well known for mazak rot in its tender. The tender chassis is just the frame of the motor from the previous tender drive version.  It's possible to cannibalise  an old tender drive 9F, or it can be replaced by the unpowered bogie from one of Hornbys diesels of a similar era, but I can't remember which one it is at present!

 

What you do need to do is to try and get the chassis out of the tender before the expansion starts to crack the plastic.

 

 

OK. Thank you. I have heard of Mazak rot in other models but was totally unaware that it could affect this model as well. I haven't got it back from the purchaser yet but will look at the tender as soon as it arrives back. Thanks for the help.

[highpeakman]

17 hours ago, 313201 said:

The unpowered bogies from the classes 37, 47, 58 and 92 from Hornby 1990s locomotives will fit thd railroad 9F tender chassis.

 

I  had to make that modification myself on my 9F and also my railroad Black 5 as both locos had the same issue.

OK. Thanks for that information. I will investigate as soon as the model arrives back.

[highpeakman]

18 hours ago, NCB said:

There's very little wear on the middle wheels, which suggests that these are the non-turning ones. Are they a smaller diameter?

Shouldn't be much wear on any of the wheels as it hasn't really run much. I will investigate as soon as it is back in my hands from the buyer. It appears there may be a case of mazak rot in the chassis. Thanks for suggestion anyway.

[highpeakman]

I now have the model back and the tender chassis has definitely rotted! I have removed the old chassis and I am about to fit a plastic printed replacement that I bought from Ebay. That looks straightforward enough.

 

However a secondary problem is that, somehow, it seems the loco drawbar (Hornby X8846) has got broken. This is currently out of stock at Peter's Spares but I am also a bit confused by this part. That website suggests it is on a number of Hornby locos (Black 5, Merchant Navy, 8F, Q1, A4). It is wired to use the tender wheels as pick ups in addition to the loco. However the loco appears to run perfectly well on it's own without the tender being connected at all and, as the loco is a 2-10-0 I would have thought that picking up from the loco should not be a problem.

 

Peter's Spares also shows another drawbar part X8864 for the 9F that has no wires although that is different to a picture on Ebay which does show wires. Very confusing! Which 9F is that for and will it fit the Railroad 9F?

 

I would appreciate any clarification please or any other suggestions to replace the drawbar as £9 + postage seems a high price to pay for a simple piece of plastic. Is it simple enough to fashion out of plastic sheet or is there any hidden potential problem?

Edited November 21, 2022 by highpeakman
Added text

[RedgateModels]

I should have a spare drawbar somewhere, I took mine off when I made my last Crosti conversion because I used a different tender chassis. It's probably got the wires on it too. I'll see if I can dig it out 

[RedgateModels]

There is a question though, those drawbar remnants don't look like the right part and there's no wires running from what's left on the loco up to the decoder socket. It's almost like you have a much earlier loco with the railroad tender.....

 

 

Does the plastic 3d printed part have the fixing holes for the pickups? I'd also consider adding some weight to the replacement part as the tender will be a bit light otherwise.

Edited November 21, 2022 by RedgateModels

[highpeakman]

That's very helpful of you and your offer is much appreciated. However, hopefully though, to save you the time and effort of sending it,  I am still wondering if I can fashion a new one out of sheet plastic. Unfortunately the old drawbar was not returned to me so I don't have it to check.

 

I don't think the wires are needed as the loco runs on my rolling road without the tender. I just need to check if it has a step between the loco and tender and the distance between the two fixings.

 

The pictures show the chassis support which has the coupling pin on it. Also the new centre replacement carrying the wheels.The old Mazak motor support is the bit that rotted and, of course, there was not a motor in the Railroad 9F! The new replacement part fits into the chassis support and yes, I agree, some extra weight will be attached. Provision also has to be made to add a fixing plate over the centre wheels. 

[highpeakman]

Meant to say that your diagram of the drawbar are exactly the same as it shows on my parts leaflet but I am no longer sure how accurate that is. This model seems to be a strange combination of old and new parts. R2880.

[andyman7]

On this version the tender wheels just provided extra pickups. So the model does not need them to run (but the extra pickups aid in reliable running)

[RedgateModels]

Found it! 

 

 

Let me know if you want it 🙂

[RedgateModels]

Also check the motor mounts on the loco, they are also known to suffer Zinc Pest 🙁

[highpeakman]

5 minutes ago, RedgateModels said:

Also check the motor mounts on the loco, they are also known to suffer Zinc Pest 🙁

Oh heck! Really? I was hoping that the problem was limited to the tender as it was the (really) old design ad that the loco chassis was a later version avoiding it. I will check carefully. Thanks.

 

If you are sure that you can spare the drawbar then I would appreciate having it.

I am happy to pay for it and postage. Is there an email address (or facebook, whatever)I can use to advise my address and make payment somehow? 

[RedgateModels]

Hornby did sell spare mounts pretty cheaply. I have stocks too as it’s a common issue. Look at my Redgate’s Modelling blog on here, I used a 2880 chassis for a mad 2-10-4 tank engine last year.
 

Come to think of it, the drawbar probably came from that

 

 

[highpeakman]

Hi

I have found your telephone number on The Model Shop Directory. Is it OK if i phone you to get details of the drawbar tomorrow? 

Edited November 21, 2022 by highpeakman
spelling!

[RedgateModels]

I’ll be at work during the day. PM me your address and I’ll post the drawbar out, I’ve got stamps to use up by the end of the year 😉

[highpeakman]

18 hours ago, RedgateModels said:

I’ll be at work during the day. PM me your address and I’ll post the drawbar out, I’ve got stamps to use up by the end of the year 😉

Done.

[Fireline]

On 21/11/2022 at 17:55, RedgateModels said:

Found it! 

 

 

Let me know if you want it 🙂

You sure that's the right drawbar? Didn't the 9F have the big plastic loop one, with the two contact sections loose?

[RedgateModels]

Possibly, all I can say is that this one came off a railroad R2880 and matches the service sheet. 

[highpeakman]

4 hours ago, Fireline said:

You sure that's the right drawbar? Didn't the 9F have the big plastic loop one, with the two contact sections loose?

This is for the Railroad version of the 9F which, although loco motored, it uses the chassis, etc of the original tender drive Hornby 9F and not the later, more detailed version of the 9F.  As stated above it does match the one that was fitted to this particular model and is shown on the data sheet. I do suspect that different drawbars were fitted over time though but I am not sure if model numbers always changed to reflect that.