RMweb Gold Darius43 Posted October 31, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 31, 2022 Totally wrong for the layout that my friend and I are building but I have ordered one from Locomotion. We have several trouble-free Heljan locomotives “in shed” so I am enthusiastic about this one. I guess if others want to be disappointed they will find a way to achieve disappointment. Cheers Darius 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted October 31, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 31, 2022 11 hours ago, 298 said: I'm not saying they're not similar, but there are quite a few major visual differences between the British, French and GE home locos and between these and the Kearsley Power Station locos. Some of the electrical gear on the ES1 looked similar tho to GE, but the styling tended to follow what the builder was used to for contemporary steam locos, which for alot of US builders meant a steam loco cab and tender trucks. It'd be like repainting a Lord Westwood back to green and sticking any name on you liked... Its nothing like the Kearsley ones, they were very short in length. its not a million miles from the French one, though at £220 I wont be buying one as a starting point for a conversion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steeplecab#/media/File:1900_E1_Boîte_à_Sel.JPG 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted October 31, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 31, 2022 1 hour ago, adb968008 said: Its nothing like the Kearsley ones, they were very short in length. its not a million miles from the French one, though at £220 I wont be buying one as a starting point for a conversion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steeplecab#/media/File:1900_E1_Boîte_à_Sel.JPG The Kearsley ones were industrial locomotives but as they've been mentioned the biggest user of steeple cab locomotives in the UK must be the Harton system. There is also the small English Electric four wheel shunter which was built in some numbers (over 160 IIRC). These were built with battery, pantograph, trolley pole and even third rail as a source of power and would be an ideal subject for a model as small shunters both steam and diesel seem to be very popular. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
friscopete Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 (edited) With reference to price .I suspect many will be able to afford trains still .Its usually men past ,in my case well past ,their optimal breeding peak 😃 who can indulge in hobbies .Usually a recession doesnt really hit hard at them as if they had crap jobs they wouldnt buy toy trains in the first place .What may well make life a bit harder this time is power increases that will soak away that spare money leaving far less in the pocket .We may well see fewer br and new posh big cars around as those fancy deals for a car you never own will become expensive .W ho knows but it may not be uber gloomy out there in model train land. Edited October 31, 2022 by friscopete 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 1, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 1, 2022 On 29/10/2022 at 22:13, Legend said: I think there are parallel economies going on . There is no doubt that there are people who are really struggling in this with energy , food and even mortgages going up . On the other hand there are a tranche of people who are comfortably off , who might complain about energy prices being triple what they were last year but can still absorb the impact , and having no mortgage are still relatively comfortably off . Im probably one of them. I would suggest that the majority of people into model railways are in this latter category . However there has to be a limit as to what people will pay and what they are interested in . To me a rather bespoke electric loco , of which there were two, spending most of their times in tunnels in Newcastle is stretching it . This locos not high on the list it’s not even on my list ! Coupled with a £220. Price it’s just a non starter for me. I really wonder if this was a wise choice , but then there are people signing up for Clayton DHPC I think that’s it - it’s a version of something I never knew about , and I don’t think ever ran on BR, from KR models , so what do I know ? Incredible ! I’m coming to the conclusion that I’m out of touch with the market . I can’t understand why things like this are being made while , to me , more obvious candidates like a 313/314/315/507/508 are ignored . Oh well sorry for the rant . I hope it makes money for Rails so that other special commissions are made, but this one’s not for me . Locomotion are just too difficult to deal with and Heljan are presumably covered in their exposure as it’s a limited edition for Locomotion/Rails . I forecast bargains at Model Rail Scotland at the locomotion stand next year . And even then I’m not interested . As ever the market will decide. And very niche locos have seemingly sold well in recent times including the Beattie Well Tanks (now I suspect having been produced and sold, in total, in far greater numbers than some of Hornby's recent new released locos). DHP1 which you mentioned and which never turned a wheel in revenue earning traffic and did hardly any mileage at all on the national network; similarly GT3 which also never turned a wheel on anything other than test runs, and such things as the GW gas turbines witha limited sphere of operation.. The big problem for anyone making any of these things is balancing the number produced against the cost in order to arrive at a marketable selling price and lower numbers immediately mean a higher price while offering more livery variants - as with ES1 - increases overall production costs which again impacts price. The Science Museum's approach to the commercial business case for anything any museum in the group is involved in is very rigorous - probably far more rigorous than that of some commercial companies. So there will certainly have been some very careful number crunching as far as NRM/Locomotion involvement is concerned and it will have been required to show very positive results at a particular rate of return. I suspect they (and Rails as well) know more about their worldwide market than we do and I know that Locomotion have been actively involved in selling the model to some of their target customers. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 6 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said: As ever the market will decide. And very niche locos have seemingly sold well in recent times including the Beattie Well Tanks (now I suspect having been produced and sold, in total, in far greater numbers than some of Hornby's recent new released locos). DHP1 which you mentioned and which never turned a wheel in revenue earning traffic and did hardly any mileage at all on the national network; similarly GT3 which also never turned a wheel on anything other than test runs, and such things as the GW gas turbines witha limited sphere of operation.. The big problem for anyone making any of these things is balancing the number produced against the cost in order to arrive at a marketable selling price and lower numbers immediately mean a higher price while offering more livery variants - as with ES1 - increases overall production costs which again impacts price. The Science Museum's approach to the commercial business case for anything any museum in the group is involved in is very rigorous - probably far more rigorous than that of some commercial companies. So there will certainly have been some very careful number crunching as far as NRM/Locomotion involvement is concerned and it will have been required to show very positive results at a particular rate of return. I suspect they (and Rails as well) know more about their worldwide market than we do and I know that Locomotion have been actively involved in selling the model to some of their target customers. To make any profit on the ES1 they will have to sell a huge amount they are only selling direct the NER version. No idea if they get a cut from the sales of other versions only sold by Rails, or if Rails actually finance the whole thing, no interest personally either way. They are still trying to sell other earlier issued releases as well, still at full price. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium D5158 Posted November 1, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 1, 2022 To ALL with no interest in this model. If you have no interest in this model please don’t fill this thread with your meaningless comments and waste my and everyone else’s time having to read through this nonsense in the hope there will be an intelligent and constructive input. Thanking you in anticipation. 4 2 3 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted November 1, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 1, 2022 58 minutes ago, D5158 said: please don’t fill this thread with your meaningless comments and waste my and everyone else’s time take your own advice, I was enjoying the thread till you posted….🥱 2 3 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 (edited) *Meaningless Drivel Alert* Unless Heljan are giving us a detachable dragbeam buffer plank (pressure treated with anti woodworm fluid), corrected the livery on 26500, give us three link couplings and fit correct gauge wheels, I'll not be having one. Harrumph! Ok boys, you can get back to converting this thread into a wish list. P Edited November 1, 2022 by Porcy Mane Sort oot me words afta a spank'n. 5 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted November 1, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 1, 2022 5 minutes ago, Porcy Mane said: Unless Heljan are giving us a detachable dragbeam (pressure treated with anti woodworm fluid) I make that a buffer beam or plank; is dragbeam a piece of North Eastern Railway locomotive dialect? I don't see how it does any dragging - that is, takes any load, the drawhook passing through it. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 3 minutes ago, Compound2632 said: North Eastern Railway locomotive dialect? A little more North Eastern Railway locomotive dialect. "Clever sh1te"! 😋 "Serious head on". I did mean to write buffer plank but my emotions got the better of me. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Flying Pig Posted November 1, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 1, 2022 1 hour ago, Compound2632 said: I make that a buffer beam or plank; is dragbeam a piece of North Eastern Railway locomotive dialect? I don't see how it does any dragging - that is, takes any load, the drawhook passing through it. Doesn't the rouge make it a dragbeam? 1 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted November 1, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 1, 2022 11 minutes ago, Flying Pig said: Doesn't the rouge make it a dragbeam? Is every King a Queen? 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
70E Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 I appreciate it comes down to economies of scale (excuse the pun) and customer demand etc and I agree £220 is a lot of money for a locomotive but compare it to a Heljan O gauge CCT van at £199 or £219 weathered or the SR CCT/PMV at similar retailer prices the loco looks to be quite good value. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishdurham Posted November 3, 2022 Share Posted November 3, 2022 I'm thinking that this is not the top of my list and I am quite happy to wait and see. Although a NER version would be my choice and others have noted Locomotion are never in a rush to do discounts. They also appear to use gold leaf in the packing materials, judging by their shipping costs compared to others. 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoffBird Posted November 3, 2022 Share Posted November 3, 2022 On 01/11/2022 at 16:16, Porcy Mane said: CAN I HAVE THE ONE BEHIND INSTEAD!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 Just glad I can afford one - splendid subject, a DC locomotive - it will sit with all the other "prototypes & one-offs" display - who'd have thought 15 years ago we'd now have had (and these are just those I've indulged in) ............ DP1, Falcon, Lion, Kestrel, 10001, 10201, 10203, 18000, Sarah Siddons, APT-E, Brighton Belle, Derby lightweight DMMU and that beautiful SE&CR "C" ..................................👌 Not forgetting the other "odd" Classes 15, 16, 17, 22, 23, 28, 41, 71 ............................👍 Surely the "Hornby's" are just a matter of time 🤞 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted November 25, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 25, 2022 On 28/10/2022 at 12:04, AY Mod said: Model Spec - DCC Ready chassis with Next18 interface The only thing is on previous experience the Heljan locos are a bit demanding on current and the next18’s are generally lower current specs so it could be interesting! Zimo mx618 0.7amp 1.5max Dapol Imperium 1amp 2max ESU lokpilot 0.75amp max not specified. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oleander Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 Saw the model to day at the NEC. Very nice looks great,But way over priced. It is a small eletric loco. You can get a lot of small medium and large model locos for less than this one is priced. So I will pass unless I see it in the bargin bin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators AY Mod Posted November 26, 2022 Author Administrators Share Posted November 26, 2022 1 minute ago, oleander said: So I will pass unless I see it in the bargin bin You may not be the target market if your buying choices are made on length. 🥺 1 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 12 minutes ago, AY Mod said: You may not be the target market if your buying choices are made on length. 🥺 Especially if it involves sausage meat. I'll be having a BR green jobby even though they've got the livery wrong. 1 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted November 26, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 26, 2022 2 hours ago, oleander said: Saw the model to day at the NEC. Very nice looks great,But way over priced. It is a small eletric loco. You can get a lot of small medium and large model locos for less than this one is priced. So I will pass unless I see it in the bargin bin It's a very 'niche' model and will not attract the sort of sales that say a Jinty would attract and therefore the costs will have to be passed onto the customer. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oleander Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 20 hours ago, PhilJ W said: It's a very 'niche' model and will not attract the sort of sales that say a Jinty would attract and therefore the costs will have to be passed onto the customer. I hear what you are saying ,But by putting the price were it is. There a lot of potential customers that will say: I like it but will pass on the price. On The Niche part. Prototype locos have sold well in the UK model market in the past. I think KR models are on there 3rd run of GT3. Some niche models can have wide appeal if priced well. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oleander Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 23 hours ago, AY Mod said: You may not be the target market if your buying choices are made on length. 🥺 Cant beat a UP Big Boy 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlfaZagato Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 9 hours ago, oleander said: Cant beat a UP Big Boy Which can't be had for nearly twice the list. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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