Cost of attending exhibitions

[Andymsa]

40 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

I suspect that's the case; extended to 'getting others to question themselves so that they agree with me so I don't feel guilty that the demise of a number of events may be anything to do with my mindset'.

 

 

We are lucky that there are a number of people in the people in the hobby who support events, shops and smaller suppliers and helping to play a part in their viability.

 

Use it or lose it.

I would not say it’s about mindsets and feeling better about things with a possible outcome to feel better about one’s self. It’s more to bring awareness to a situation.
 

 

it’s very easy to quote specific sections of a post to make a statement sound different from what’s intended, just for the record I have always supported the many suppliers of the products I look for very well. My point was about human nature in general, I guess no one has ever haggled or bartered for a price.

 

 

Edited October 24, 2022 by Andymsa

[Chris116]

Since Covid I have not been to any exhibitions although I had planned to go to three. The problem was the rail strikes which have also stopped me from volunteering on the Mid Hants Railway having had to give up three days when I was due to do a duty but with a rail strike it was not possible for me to get to Alton. This is not having a go at the rail unions who have to fight for what their members want. Hopefully I will get to a couple of exhibitions before next summer but if I don't I will just have to accept the situation. The price of admission to all except the largest exhibitions is still very reasonable compared to many other days entertainment but for those whose financial situation is suffering then add the cost of travel, entry and food for the day then some may sadly be unable to get to as many or any exhibitions for the foreseeable future which is a great shame.

[D9020 Nimbus]

I haven't been to any exhibitions since COVID either, but having had the autumn booster I'm planning to go to Newcastle this year — it was also the last exhibition I attended back in 2019. I don't have my own transport (being 6ft 6ins tall, driving for much more than an hour causes my right knee to get very painful) so the exhibitions I visit are dependent on their accessibility by public transport.

 

I've never actually been to Warley — it's too far from where I live in the Newcastle area to go there and back in a day, and staying overnight would put the cost up a lot. I've never had a problem with the admission cost — the cost of getting there and back is almost always much higher. As far as the increased cost of living is concerned, I might trim back on some of the more distant shows I've been to in the past — Wigan, Glasgow, Perth — although if the Derby show ever resumes in its previous form at the Roudhouse I might make an exception for that.

 

I'd been planning to go to the Doncaster show back in February 2020, but was put off by the forecast high winds and associated disruption on the railways. After all, there'd be more shows later in the year. Wouldn't there?

[Mallard60022]

9 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

 

A tad ironic with the company you work for . . .

 

 

Well so are those poorest paid workers who’s t&c’s stood to change and cost them £5-7k+ a year in extra travel. The anger on our area was over the t&cs meaning they could travel up to an hour in their own time to work ‘flexibly’ at other depots and mostly on nights, not pay or modernisation. 
 

I’d suggest reading up properly on what they were proposing to find out why the lowest paid were being hit so hard and reacted as they did. Too much media bs on the extremes of both sides hiding real issues. 
 

 

Anyway no it’s not affecting where i go to shows. 

Well said. Thanks for that reposte. I would have, but am trying to ignore such comments.  

If I was going to a show and there was inconvenience then that's just hard cheese. I could attempt another transport option or just not attend. There would be another elsewhere and I would have saved a fare so could afford to travel further the next time.

Solidarity.

Phil

[andyman7]

4 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Then don't. But you'll be generous enough to allow those of us who do still enjoy shows to go.

 

Warley is not the only show. Personally, I get a great deal of pleasure from much smaller events. A couple of weeks ago, I dropped in to the Heart of England Narrow Gauge modellers in Rugby. Lovely little event, a few layouts operated sporadiaclly due to chatting. A single second hand trader and some really, really excellent cake. In travelling terms, it took as long for me to get there as it does to the NEC, but with free parking. I don't think they were charging on the door, donations only. If you don't like the big events, there are plenty of other options. Shows are not a one size fits all job.

This is an important point - this month I went to GETS (Milton Keynes) - by train even though it was a 'strike' days as there was a half hourly service from Euston - and then a week later to the Beckenham show, which is an order of magnitude smaller but benefits from one of the best secondhand spreads that any show puts on. The pace and nature of each show is very different but the smaller one holds it's own in terms of an enjoyable day out.

On a more general note, pre-COVID the exhibition calendar was rammed. There is no doubt that the pandemic and economic circumstances will mean that not every show can survive, but even at a reduced level there will be plenty of choice and options, so I will endeavour to support a range shows as time, diary and finances permit.

[ardbealach]

One of the major costs for exhibition managers is the bed and breakfast accommodation for operators. 

 

Which is preferred at shows : 

One big layout with say six operators or three small cameo style layouts with say two operators each? 

 

The large one is likely to be beyond the average layout size which could be built at home, while a cameo might enthuse a modeller to make start on their own cameo layout which could be fitted into the average house.  Given the limits of budget of the exhibition manager for B n B accommodation when making a choice of layout to be invited which layout type is preferred to pull in the visitors? (Alisdair)

[Chris M]

17 hours ago, Allegheny1600 said:

 

 

When you add in the cost of getting to the show and at least a drink or two, it doubles the price of a local show and for something like Warley, well I’m looking at close to £50 to £60, for what?

Getting squashed, pushed and shoved and pummelled, strangers barging into you, kids screaming into your ear and one’s nose being assaulted by the inevitable soap avoider.

Plus, the chance of picking up a cold or flu, never mind Covid, because some folk have to get their fix when they should be recovering at home!

 

 

Sorry but I don’t find it appealing enough to pay for anymore.

John

I've been to many big shows over the years and to every Warley NEC show. There is an element of truth to what you say on Saturday morning but by Saturday afternoon and all day Sunday you will not get knocked "squashed, pushed and shoved and pummelled" -  well I'm only 5ft 2 in and I've never had that at any show on a Sunday. As for soap avoiders - well I find exhibitions are no worse than a busy bus or train or anywhere else where there are crowds of people. In fact I would say my daily commute on the train used to be worse than any model railway exhibition.

 

It's ok to say you don't fancy going any more but why try to tell others they will have a bad experience?

Edited October 25, 2022 by Chris M

[298]

1 hour ago, ardbealach said:

One of the major costs for exhibition managers is the bed and breakfast accommodation for operators. 

 

Which is preferred at shows : 

One big layout with say six operators or three small cameo style layouts with say two operators each? 

 

The large one is likely to be beyond the average layout size which could be built at home, while a cameo might enthuse a modeller to make start on their own cameo layout which could be fitted into the average house.  Given the limits of budget of the exhibition manager for B n B accommodation when making a choice of layout to be invited which layout type is preferred to pull in the visitors? (Alisdair)

 

Glad it won't be me making that decision, in fact alot of the issues I've seen on the show circuit seem to be because feedback given by vocal punters is presented in the form of criticism instead of being asked for in a constructive manner by surveying punters at random.

 

Both layout types are obviously viable, but the larger layout is more likely to be a showstopper and open to a reciprocal arrangement where the clubs large layout goes to the visiting layout's own show. But as in the point above, from experience if you get negative feedback it's more likely to be "I want to see something I can build at home" instead of "I want to see something different at a show".

 

[298]

3 minutes ago, Chris M said:

It's ok to say you don't fancy going any more but why try to tell others they will have a bad experience?

 

Because I've recommended going to a certain show myself to beginners, only to find out they've left after half an hour because they've hated it. This then led me to question myself over it and found I was disguising the same issues.

[newbryford]

7 hours ago, Allegheny1600 said:

 

 

Inspiration? Can get that from YouTube and the internet including on here!

 

 

Although according to another thread, the internet isn't inspiring, but an easy way to rubbish layouts without seeing them for real.

[Clive Mortimore]

The cost of a model railway exhibition as a punter?

 

After checking for any family duties that the boss thinks are more important, checking to see if there are any must see layouts or gotta buy from this or that trader, finding if any of my mates are going, what was the catering like last time, I might then consider the cost of attending. Mainly so I have the right amount of cash in my pocket in case they cannot do cards on the door.

 

There might be a time when the cost is a consideration but at the moment a day out viewing other modellers layouts and having a chat with like minded chaps is worth every penny.

[chris p bacon]

This years trip to Warley is from the new abode.  It entails a 490 mile round trip (£88) , 2 nights in an AirB&B (£160) as well as the hop into the NEC on the train (£10). The entrance fee is minor in this equation.

 It may sound a lot but we're making a weekend of it (I get 1 day at the NEC) and doing things on the way down as well as on the way back.  

I get to see traders I purchase from (Gibson, H&A etc) and have already put together a list of requirements that runs to £250+ it sounds a lot, but these are parts that will finish off 12 months of modelling.

 

 

[woodenhead]

@Clive Mortimore so that's why you were such a happy operator at Caistor, DCC - Didn't Cost Cash. 😆

Edited October 24, 2022 by woodenhead

[PMP]

7 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

or have one less pint, 

Eh?

[Clive Mortimore]

5 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

@Clive Mortimore so that's why you were such a happy operator at Caistor, DCC - Didn't Cost Cash. 😆

Yo Woody,

 

I normally visit the Caistor show, I think it is the nearest to where I live. This year Simon had his layout there and his usual operator wasn't available so I stepped up to the mark and had a wonderful day. Unable to do the Sunday as I was required to do some taxi work for members of the family.

[PaulRhB]

56 minutes ago, PMP said:

Eh?

Well if you’re driving to the show 😉

 

 😆

 

 

Edited October 24, 2022 by PaulRhB

[TheSignalEngineer]

9 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

and some really, really excellent cake.

Getting the priorities right I see.

 

9 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

I get a great deal of pleasure from much smaller events.

I like small exhibitions where it is easy to chat with the layout owners. Romiley Methiodists have a charity exhibition in September that I have visited several times. This year, due to venue visitor number restrictios, instead of their usual large-ish show at Chapel-en-le-Frith New Mills have had a couple of small events.

My usual visit in late October is Hazel Grove. This year they aren't having their show at the usual place but a small one day show at Hazel Grove Methodist Church Hall on Saturday 29th October with about nine layouts from the club or members including some work in progress, three local traders and a couple of demonstrations. Should be worth a couple of hours of my time.

http://hgdmrs.org.uk/hazel-grove-district-model-railway-society/open-day-2/

[Chris M]

9 hours ago, 298 said:

 

Because I've recommended going to a certain show myself to beginners, only to find out they've left after half an hour because they've hated it. This then led me to question myself over it and found I was disguising the same issues.

So how to enjoy a model railway exhibition - especially a big one might be a better discussion.

 

My recommendations would be:-

1. Go on the Sunday

2. Have a look at the list of layouts and decide which ones are most likely to be of interest. Make sure you see these layouts.

3. Have a look at the list of trade exhibitors and decide which ones you must visit.

4. Have a look at the demonstration stands and see if any of these might be able to give useful advice. There are plenty of these demos at large exhibitions like Warley NEC.

5. Get hold of an exhibition plan in advance if you can and plan your visit based on the above.

 

For instance last weekend at Taunton I knew I wanted to see "Hills of the North", "Moors View" and "Bishops Lydeard" so I made sure I saw those and drank them in. There were many other excellent layouts that I got to see while wandering around to see my target layouts. I didn't plan to buy anything and almost stuck to that plan (£3.00 total spend). To a large degree it is about appreciating other folks design ideas and building skills. There is always something at an exhibition to inspire or provoke thoughts as to how you could do things better.

 

[Phil Parker]

1 hour ago, Chris M said:

1. Go on the Sunday

 

Bang on. Sunday is always the nicer day to visit, you just have to accept that the "bargainz" might have left the building. However, to see layouts and enjoy the trade, the second day is always a whole lot nicer.

[Mike Bellamy]

23 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

My other show was Stafford last month.  Lots of layouts, lots of trade, huge, spacious venue. Now I believe the deal with the venue is unlikely to be repeated at a similar price,

 

 

The Gauge O Guild held their show at the same venue a few weeks before Stafford. After much criticism in previous years about hidden costs and a substantial loss at Telford (£30,000?) the new team have published a complete income and expenditure account to show the reality of putting on a large exhibition. This is for a 2 day show with only about 10 layouts and 80 traders and is the 'showcase' for the Guild. There were around 1,500 visitors compared to 2,000 in 2019. Admission (2 day ticket) was £10 members and £15 public.

 

All costs are in thousands £x,000 and many of the smaller amounts have been omitted from the headline figures below

Ticket Sales £15, Trade £17 (Total income £38)

Venue £28, Hotels £5, Meals £3, Layout Travel £2.5, Other Travel £1.5 (Total costs £45)

This resulted in a loss of almost £7,000.

 

The following information may be of interest when trying to plan against a budget set 12 months before the show . . . . . . . . . . 

 

Quote

Hotel prices at Premier Inn increased from £45 in 2021 to £61.00 in 2022 Based on the fact we booked 121 room nights that is an increase of £1936 compared to the forecast. Electricity rose from 25p per unit to 55p per unit on 1st September 2022. We used 3025 units so instead of £756.25, our bill was £1663.75 and the price for the electrical drops was originally quoted as £60 per drop and increased to £75 per drop. With twelve drops that is an increase of £180 plus £230 for scissor lift hire which had not been anticipated. The breakfast price rose from £5.00 per head to £7.00 per head and lunches were originally quoted as £6.00 per head and this increased to £8.00 per head. Meals therefore went up by £708. These price rises totalled £3961.

.

[Andymsa]

28 minutes ago, Mike Bellamy said:

 

 

The Gauge O Guild held their show at the same venue a few weeks before Stafford. After much criticism in previous years about hidden costs and a substantial loss at Telford (£30,000?) the new team have published a complete income and expenditure account to show the reality of putting on a large exhibition. This is for a 2 day show with only about 10 layouts and 80 traders and is the 'showcase' for the Guild. There were around 1,500 visitors compared to 2,000 in 2019. Admission (2 day ticket) was £10 members and £15 public.

 

All costs are in thousands £x,000 and many of the smaller amounts have been omitted from the headline figures below

Ticket Sales £15, Trade £17 (Total income £38)

Venue £28, Hotels £5, Meals £3, Layout Travel £2.5, Other Travel £1.5 (Total costs £45)

This resulted in a loss of almost £7,000.

 

The following information may be of interest when trying to plan against a budget set 12 months before the show . . . . . . . . . . 

 

.

very interesting and informative seeing a breakdown of costs, what I find really interesting is the 500 visitor drop which if they had been in attendance would of made up the shortfall of £7000. Was there any particular reason found for the drop in numbers?

[RedgateModels]

13 hours ago, ardbealach said:

One of the major costs for exhibition managers is the bed and breakfast accommodation for operators. 

 

Not for Mansfield, we have always said we cannot run to this as it's a charity show. It means local layouts only by and large but we do have a loyal band of exhibitors who are prepared to travel 60 odd miles to attend for which we pay for fuel etc. They are very much appreciated.

[Phil Parker]

3 minutes ago, Andymsa said:

very interesting and informative seeing a breakdown of costs, what I find really interesting is the 500 visitor drop which if they had been in attendance would of made up the shortfall of £7000. Was there any particular reason found for the drop in numbers?

 

Modellers can be very (small C) conservative. Any change of venue always takes a couple of years to stick according to people in the trade when I chatted about it years ago.

[Pete the Elaner]

6 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Modellers can be very (small C) conservative. Any change of venue always takes a couple of years to stick according to people in the trade when I chatted about it years ago.

 

It reminds me of when CMRA moved their show from St Albans to Stevenage:

 

Stevenage was a better venue. One floor instead of 3 with cramped staircases. Loading was a lot easier without having to park on double yellows.

Stevenage is on the ECML instead of the MML & Abbey Branch. It was also a lot closer to the station. The 2 venues are about 15 minutes apart on the A1(M), so access was certainly no worse for the majority of visitors & better for some.

 

But many were complaining about the show moving. Some people just don't like change, good or bad.

[Willie Whizz]

Warley certainly isn't 'cheap' to get into, even in relative terms, but I can live with that for the sheer convenience of the number of retailers and suppliers in one place, and the high quality of the layouts.  The bit I find to be a rip-off is the very high cost of car parking - and that is out of the Organisers' control.