TheTalkinLens' North Eastern Railway workbench

[thetalkinlens]

Another white metal kit is pretty much finished and just requires some minor tidying up and weathering. This is a N.E.R. diagram F9 perishable goods van. A 51L kit - one of the few N.E.R. kits still available from Wizard Models. The rest have sadly been out of stock for some time now.

 

This wagon was soldered together by a friend and then kindly gifted to me. I've finished it over the last week, adding the roof, couplings, paint and transfers.

 

I understand that the solebar has a "W" plate if the wagon is Westinghouse fitted or a "V" plate if the wagon is vacuum fitted. The red painting of the vacuum pipe I am not 100% on. I've read an article in the NERA Express archives (issue 135) by David Williamson that if the van was through piped rather than fitted, the pipe would be painted red, however I've also been told that all vacuum pipes were painted red to distinguish them from the Westinghouse pipes. For this van, it is red either way, as it is vacuum through piped, but I was wondering if anyone knew any more on this?

 

 

[thetalkinlens]

An update on the Forge Valley Railway Station building which I've been working away on over the last three months.

 

The main structure is complete and painted and focus is currently on windows and doors, before moving onto guttering and downpipes. There are 32 openings for windows in total - thankfully two of them on the yard side are blanked off.

 

Despite looking symmetrical, there are subtle differences on each end. The lack of chimney on one end of the central block is to the prototype - Sawdon. The other five stations all had three chimneys here, but for some reason Sawdon was built minus one. The wings beyond the bays are different in length and one chimney is wider than the other, indicating the end of the building which was the station masters house, vs the other which was the booking office and gents toilets - no fireplace in there! At the far end is an enclosed yard with lean-to sheds, while at the other end is an overall lead roof.

 

To aid moving the building around and working on it, the wings are a push together fit to the central block and the roofs will remove from each section.

 

View of the railway side. There will be a canopy in front of the central block.

 

And the yard side.

Edited January 23 by thetalkinlens

[thetalkinlens]

A little job this morning was to fit the Narrow Planet numberplates to my N.E.R. Class B. This is a NuCast kit, which I purchased last year - built, but had it re-lined and renumbered. A very nice smooth runner.

 

Edited February 17 by thetalkinlens

[thetalkinlens]

I've now got all of the windows, doors and gutters fitted on the station building. Downpipes and canopy remaining to be added. Also some internal walls to avoid seeing windows through the building.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 20 by thetalkinlens

[D5158]

10/10 for the station building.  Lovely workmanship.

[thetalkinlens]

Here is a Rapido "Not Quite Mink", or as I've dubbed it "Not Quite G8", which is the N.E.R. diagram it represents.

 

There are some details which aren't quite right... holes in the solebars, vents on the body ends, axle boxes, brake lever, but these aside, it's a pretty nice model and the livery application looks great.

 

I've fitted three link couplings to the models plastic hooks, which appear strong enough to be put under load in a train. If the hooks fail, I'll look to fitting some metal ones. Other than that, the only job has been to apply some black paint on the wheels and to weathering powders, mostly soot to tone the pristine finish down.

 

 

 

[thetalkinlens]

Here is another old 51L kit I've put together this week. An N.E.R. diagram F2 insulated van.

 

 

 

Edited March 13 by thetalkinlens

[thetalkinlens]

Over the last fortnight, I've been working on this standard design N.E.R. design wayside station building. It's based on a few stations which made use of this design. I'm using drawings from Aysgarth, but have made some minor alterations in using barge boards and stonework profile from Kirby Moorside and Sinnington on the Ryedale branch.

 

Materials, as with most of my buildings are Slater's plasticard, re-enforced with 1mm plasticard sheet and various sizes of Plastruct. The stone sheet is Slaters 7mm scale 0420 Stone Courses, which translates to roughly 9" high stones when used at 4mm scale.

 

This weekend I've started to add some paint. The stonework is grey primed, then two coats of an off white/grey, then lightly brushed WWS concrete dust weathering powder. Some stones have then been picked out with the same weathering powder, but with a trimmed brush to apply more pressure and precision in where the powder goes.

 

I've also been working on the bay window this weekend. A somewhat fiddly job, which I think will now be painted before fitting the windows and frames. The paint scheme will be for the N.E.R. period as per Goathland and Levisham are on the NYMR.

 

[billbedford]

On 20/11/2023 at 19:26, Jon4470 said:

I agree with @jwealleans these were built for the Hull to Liverpool immigrant trains. I’m not sure how often the immigrant trains ran though

 

Two things make following the immigrant trains difficult. One is that the ships docked according to the state of the tide and not at fixed times. The other was that no one wanted random immigrants wandering around Hull without some supervision. This meant the transfer from ship to train was made as quickly as possible. 

The GCR WWT for Hull Riverside shows that there were 24 paths per day for these trains, i.e. one an hour, to deal with the times the ships docked. I would think that the NER had a similar arrangement. 

You may be able to get more information about these trains by looking at the timetables for the Wilson line and other companies that docked in Hull. 

 

[thetalkinlens]

An update on the N.E.R. station building I'm working on. The majority of windows have now been fitted and I've added the enclosed yard with gents toilet and store.

 

 

The enclosed yard area left a few question marks, as the drawings didn't show where doorways and windows were on the inner walls, plus no indication of the roof type if there was one. Photographic evidence is hard to come by for this area of the various stations, with it being an enclosed. Aysgarth seemed to have a pitched roof over the store and a flat corrugated roof over the toilets, though these may have been additions at some point in the buildings lifetime, likely when the line was still open. The pitched roof seems to be unique to Aysgarth, with the other upper Wensleydale Stations of the same design either having a flat roof or completely open. For mine, I've opted for a leaded flat roof over both the store and toilets.

 

 

 

I've also added the canopy. This is a sheet of transparent plastic, with the slate edges and framework glued on top. Some more detail, such as leading to add here before I finally glue it to the building.

 

[Emery Hill Station]

Probably not the best place to ask, but since this thread of posts has helped me alot with it already, do you have any tips on building NER Station Buildings? I'm looking at doing an 11ft x 5ft layout of Benton c.1904 so I need to build the station infrastructure myself

[thetalkinlens]

2 hours ago, Emery Hill Station said:

Probably not the best place to ask, but since this thread of posts has helped me alot with it already, do you have any tips on building NER Station Buildings? I'm looking at doing an 11ft x 5ft layout of Benton c.1904 so I need to build the station infrastructure myself

 

I can help where I can, but I'm not sure exactly what you're asking for? I see Benton has the NER footbridge. You could get the Hornby Skaledale one, but if you can find the D&S etch, that will be a much more accurate model I'd have thought. It is quite rare to pick them up though. I'm not sure if Dan can still supply them.

 

For my buildings, I ensure there are drawings available. I look in books for these or ask the North Eastern Railway Association. I then re-draw them (trace) on the computer so I have them at 4mm scale. This may seem an unnecessary step, but I personally find it invaluable, particularly if the building is complex.

 

Benton station building looks to be brick structure, so my material of choice would be Slaters plasticard. I tend to reinforce with 1mm flat plasticard.

 

Hope that helps, but ask any more specific questions and I will try to answer!

[thetalkinlens]

A couple of N.E.R. Diagram G2's...

 

 

The first thing to point out about these two covered goods vans is they are scratch built rather than kits. The body is plasticard and the details are a combination of brass etch and white metal. I should also point out they were not scratch built by me! I picked them up second hand.

 

I have however made some changes. Here's a look at the first van, No.98488, which started out like this in BR livery...

 

I've removed the S&W couplings in preference for three links and changed the long brake levers for short ones, using the Mainly Trains wagon details etch from Wizard Models. The reason for this change is this van depicts the G2 with horizontal boarding and cross bracing. All photographic evidence I've found of these vans have shorter brake levers.

 

It now looks like this in 1904 N.E.R. livery:

I've opted to retain the same number; 98488. There is a reference photo in Tatlow's NER wagon book in BR livery.

 

I haven't yet fitted a builders plate to the solebar. I'm going to make up a custom transfer sheet for that.

 

The axle boxes I think are wrong for the N.E.R. period and the buffers are definitely wrong, but I will live with those.

 

Next a look at No.6052, originally in LNER livery...

 

This van differs from 98488 in that it has vertical planking and no cross bracing and also small end hatches for passing long cargo through.

 

I've made some minor changes here too. S&W couplings removed again and three links fitted. Some G2's had no roof doors, but most had either a canvas or steel door arrangement. I've represented the steel door type with some plastic strip. Again I've opted to retain the original builders number selection of 6052, a photo showing it in LNER livery in Tatlow's N.E.R. wagon book for reference.

 

As this is the later G2 design with vertical planking, I've opted for the later 1911 N.E.R. livery for variation to No.98488. Thankfully the buffers are correct on this one, and I think the axleboxes are too.

 

The builders plate is in the process of being finished, adding the tiny numbers from Slater's P7 transfer sheets. Fiddly, but I've done it before so know what I'm letting myself in for!

 

It is interesting to note that the vertical planked G2's also appear to have been built with vertical planked bottom doors, however this one has horizontal planks for that, as does the 51L/D&S whitemetal kit. I've not found any photos of G2's in NER livery like this, but plenty in LNER or BR livery. My assumption would be that as wagons needed repair, they were replaced with horizontal planks, possibly off other G2's.

Edited June 15 by thetalkinlens

[jwealleans]

Whoever built those made a really nice job and you've enhanced them further.   Does 6052 have the cross bracing on the end, given it has a roof door?

[thetalkinlens]

6 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

Whoever built those made a really nice job and you've enhanced them further.  Does 6052 have the cross bracing on the end, given it has a roof door?

 

No cross bracing on the ends as far as I can tell. But looking at my reference pics of G2's, I can't see any cross bracing on the ends on any of them, so may be looking at the wrong thing?

[jwealleans]

On roof door vans (according to the Dave Geen instructions I read it in) there is a bracing piece right at the top of the ends between the end posts.   Predictably I can't find a picture right now, but if I come across one later I'll edit it in.   Both he and Dan Pinnock used to supply it in their kits.

 

Edit - no picture, but I found this in the 51L instruction sheet:  After 1911 the roof doors were replaced by tarpaulins and the end cross members were omitted. Eventually, a plain solid roof was fitted.

 

So it depends on the type of door and when you're modelling.

Edited June 17 by jwealleans

[thetalkinlens]

Ah yes, I know what you''re describing now @jwealleans. This was used for vans fitted with tarpaulin double roof doors as opposed to single, and it sounds like these were a more rare variant of the G2. I've highlighted it in the photo below of 6359. 

 

Here's an extract from NERA Express issue182, page 55:

Quote

As a result. the design was changed to a tarpaulin cover for the roof door, with the tarpaulin stiffened by laths to prevent it sagging. Since this type of door covering could be rolled back on itself, it was possible to fit two doors to the roof and this was indeed done on some vehicles. How many were so equipped is impossible to say, but photographic evidence is scarce and I believe the numbers would not be great.. Because there was not much structural rigidity to the roof when double doors were fitted, a large longitudinal member was needed to support the centre of the roof and in turn this needed extra support at the ends. Thus vans with two roof doors could be distinguished in end view by the extra framing fitted between the end stiffeners just under the roof.

 

I'm fairly sure 6052 doesn't have this, but I'll look at the photo of it in Tatlow's later.

 

[jwealleans]

That's a much better explanation than I've seen before and explains why I have seen these in pictures with no extra bracing when I thought they should have it.   Thanks very much.

Edited June 17 by jwealleans

[thetalkinlens]

I have an N.E.R. diagram G4 "road van" to re-livery which came from the same source as the two G2's, eg; scratch built.

 

 

The problem I have with this van is photographic evidence of G4's show either horizontal planking with cross bracing or vertical planking with no cross bracing. This model has vertical planking with cross bracing. I feel the scratch builder who made this wouldn't have got that detail wrong and would have been going off a photo of No.500346. Assuming it exists, I haven't located this photo yet.

 

One option is to attempt removing the cross bracing, but I doubt I'd get a good finish.

 

I'm not sure if anyone can help with this? Possibly @jwealleans or @Worsdell forever may have some thoughts?

[Worsdell forever]

I can't find any photos of vertical planks and X strapping, doesn't mean it's wrong if these followed the same evolution as the G2s, but as these weren't built in the same numbers there could have been a gap in construction that missed that step.

 

[Darryl Tooley]

49 minutes ago, thetalkinlens said:

This model has vertical planking with cross bracing.

The only evidence for this configuration that I’ve seen is the drawing in Historic Wagon Drawings in 4mm Scale.  Given Roche’s reputation, this is not, I fear, evidence that would stand up in a court of law, and the jury must still be out on whether such a combination actually existed.

 

If the builder were working from the Roche drawing, that might explain why he chose to paint it red oxide, since this is the livery stated there, almost certainly incorrectly, given that these vans were not usually fitted with AVB.

 

The number 500346 implies an ex-Great Central vehicle; I doubt that it was gleaned from a photograph.

 

D

Edited June 17 by Darryl Tooley
Remove misleading information.

[thetalkinlens]

57 minutes ago, Darryl Tooley said:

The only evidence for this configuration that I’ve seen is the drawing in Historic Wagon Drawings in 4mm Scale.  Given Roche’s reputation, this is not, I fear, evidence that would stand up in a court of law, and the jury must still be out on whether such a combination actually existed.

 

If the builder were working from the Roche drawing, that might explain why he chose to paint it red oxide, since this is the livery stated there, almost certainly incorrectly, given that these vans were not usually fitted with AVB.

 

The number 500346 implies an ex-Great Central vehicle; I doubt that it was gleaned from a photograph.

 

D

 

Thanks, that's certainly useful to know. I have read in a NERA Express article that some G4 and G6's were fitted, but I think the numbers were very small.

 

1 hour ago, Worsdell forever said:

I can't find any photos of vertical planks and X strapping, doesn't mean it's wrong if these followed the same evolution as the G2s, but as these weren't built in the same numbers there could have been a gap in construction that missed that step.

 

 

Thanks Paul. Yes, I think I was pretty much on those thoughts, so that's good to know you're thinking the same.

 

I suspect attempting to remove the cross bracing is going to leave a mark which will be pretty impossible to smooth off.